Hi Martin, I think there are really two issues. First, these two print conditions were a response to a widespread need to characterize printing on press stocks that contain elevated levels of optical brighteners. These papers themselves might be viewed as the problem—it is very hard to make flesh tones look attractive on a bluish paper. But it’s also essential that any images to be printed on these paper be converted to profiles based on these print conditions in order to (partially) compensate for the show-through effect. I say “partially” because it may not be possible with perceptual or relative colorimetric to scale the correction (mainly +Y) fully into the high values, as it would result in an abrupt transition to paper value. The good news is that the blame can be placed on the customer who specs the paper. BTW, it’s critical that the proof should be made of the converted file, not the original. In the latter case the assignment of the profile would show completely uncorrected bluishness (like “Preserve CMYK Numbers” in Photoshop’s Proof Setup) and would of course be inaccurate. In any case, these profiles are just the messenger ... Mike

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Message: 1 Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2018 22:49:33 +0100 From: Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com> To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: PSO Coated v3 separations Message-ID: <64F1C4F4-605A-4861-A73F-5D5D31F4C223@idea-digital.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Is it just me that thinks that FOGRA51 produces inferior separations and unacceptable skin colour?

Just like FOGRA52 we get separations that lack yellow when we need MORE yellow to create an acceptable skin colour.

Who makes the decisions about colour reproduction for these standards?

Have they proofed and printed the BVDM Roman 16 images with the Green and Blue backgrounds?

Did they honestly believe that skin the colour of boiled ham was acceptable?

This causes a lot of problems in pre-press workflows because clients supplying Photoshop CMYK end up with terrible looking images and any that we edit using commercial separation software (that corrects the yellow deficiency) look nothing like the images in the rest of the job.

This wasn’t the case with FOGRA39.

The new standards are producing substandard results :(