Re: Re: I want my Adobe 1998 hehehe
Thanks Andrew and others…. now all I have to do is figure out why the Adobe Color Printer Utility freezes each time I open it in Mountain Lion……... Best Wishes, Mark Nelson Welcome to the Precision Digital Negatives Home! PDNPrint : Precision Digital Negatives Forum Mark I. Nelson Photography - Welcome On Jul 31, 2012, at 2:00 PM, colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com wrote:
Forget the Null profile routine, it does not work in all situations. That option was removed from CS6 for good reason. At best, it won’t actually do a transform, but at worst, it will transform through the profile and back out, compressing the gamut. Just print using the Adobe Color Print Utility, an older version of Photoshop (prior to CS5) or with the profile making software.
Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Jul 30, 2012, at 2:01 PM, Mark Nelson wrote:
Is there any information out there yet on Color Management with Mountain Lion and Photoshop CS6?
I was trying to get to "no color management" by doing a "null transfer" by setting the printer profile to Adobe RGB 1998 and it's not listed!
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender. "The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable." Is this a true statement? -- Steve Miller Color Management Specialist "Quality Begins Here" BIC Advertising & Promotional Products 1000 3rd Ave. SW Sleepy Eye, MN 56085 Tel.: (1) 507 794 8203 E-mail: slmiller@norwood.com www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This electronic message is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the use of the individual or company named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communications is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please immediately notify us by telephone, and return the original message to us at the address below. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: As provided for in Treasury regulations, advice (if any) relating to federal taxes that is contained in this communication (including attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the IRS Code or (2) promotion, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein: Norwood & BIC Graphic, 14421 Myerlake Circle, Clearwater, FL 33760. www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com
We've had terrible results printing any pdf via a RIP if transparency and spot color was involved. The explanation from out RIP vendor was that the problem was a result of the conversion process differing from Adobe's color engine. We've had to RIP files to tiff in photoshop first as a workaround. On 8/24/2012 9:27 AM, Steve Miller wrote:
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender.
"The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
Is this a true statement?
Regards, -- Marc Sitkin NEW ADDRESS! digitalmomentum,llc 1700 NW 15th Ave Suite 360 Pompano Beach, FL 33069 954-973-2670 phone 888-880-5851 web site: www.digitalmomentum.com Support Sports for Israel Maccabi Usa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO6tgwZTwTA
My concern is that the vender is stating the even if the RIP utilizes the Adobe Print Engine, colors, spot colors in this case, will be inconsistent. -- Steve Miller Color Management Specialist "Quality Begins Here" BIC Advertising & Promotional Products 1000 3rd Ave. SW Sleepy Eye, MN 56085 Tel.: (1) 507 794 8203 E-mail: slmiller@norwood.com www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This electronic message is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the use of the individual or company named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communications is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please immediately notify us by telephone, and return the original message to us at the address below. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: As provided for in Treasury regulations, advice (if any) relating to federal taxes that is contained in this communication (including attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the IRS Code or (2) promotion, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein: Norwood & BIC Graphic, 14421 Myerlake Circle, Clearwater, FL 33760. www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com On 24/08/2012 8:33, "Marc Sitkin" <mbs@digitalmomentum.com> wrote:
We've had terrible results printing any pdf via a RIP if transparency and spot color was involved. The explanation from out RIP vendor was that the problem was a result of the conversion process differing from Adobe's color engine. We've had to RIP files to tiff in photoshop first as a workaround.
On 8/24/2012 9:27 AM, Steve Miller wrote:
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender.
"The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
Is this a true statement?
Regards,
-- Marc Sitkin
NEW ADDRESS!
digitalmomentum,llc 1700 NW 15th Ave Suite 360 Pompano Beach, FL 33069
954-973-2670 phone 888-880-5851
web site: www.digitalmomentum.com
Support Sports for Israel Maccabi Usa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO6tgwZTwTA
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It is true that transparency, gradients aka smooth shading and spot colors are a PDF workflow's Achile heel. Short of having a permanent solution, the best bet is to avoid freely mixing those elements on a page. Even if a smart preflight program was to catch these elements in a PDF, it would probably be on the 11th hour and there would be very little time left for making design changes. The business of handling PDFs with these elements is not a problem in itself IMO. The problem begins when reseparating images and graphics for the purpose of matching a press condition or to save ink. There, anything can happen and will happen. Everybody likes PDF and it is here to stay. In most instances, it works. Like 99.8% of the time, which isn't bad in itself. The rest of the time, issues have to be caught before making plates. At the quantity of pages that go through a typical workflow, no one can give 100% assurance that everything will go through smoothly, all the time. But everybody strives for 100%. Best / Roger Breton -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Marc Sitkin Sent: August-24-12 9:34 AM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: PDF, spot colors,RIPs, and ink jet printers We've had terrible results printing any pdf via a RIP if transparency and spot color was involved. The explanation from out RIP vendor was that the problem was a result of the conversion process differing from Adobe's color engine. We've had to RIP files to tiff in photoshop first as a workaround. On 8/24/2012 9:27 AM, Steve Miller wrote:
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender.
"The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
Is this a true statement?
Regards, -- Marc Sitkin NEW ADDRESS! digitalmomentum,llc 1700 NW 15th Ave Suite 360 Pompano Beach, FL 33069 954-973-2670 phone 888-880-5851 web site: www.digitalmomentum.com Support Sports for Israel Maccabi Usa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO6tgwZTwTA _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx@videotron.ca
In this workflow, the ink jet printer is the final destination. So the PDF files would be printed to the ink jet printer through a APPE enabled color managed RIP. Therefore, no plates, no ink saving software, etc... Just PDF to RIP to ink jet. -- Steve Miller Color Management Specialist "Quality Begins Here" BIC Advertising & Promotional Products 1000 3rd Ave. SW Sleepy Eye, MN 56085 Tel.: (1) 507 794 8203 E-mail: slmiller@norwood.com www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This electronic message is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the use of the individual or company named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communications is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please immediately notify us by telephone, and return the original message to us at the address below. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: As provided for in Treasury regulations, advice (if any) relating to federal taxes that is contained in this communication (including attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the IRS Code or (2) promotion, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein: Norwood & BIC Graphic, 14421 Myerlake Circle, Clearwater, FL 33760. www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com On 24/08/2012 8:53, "Roger Breton" <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote:
It is true that transparency, gradients aka smooth shading and spot colors are a PDF workflow's Achile heel. Short of having a permanent solution, the best bet is to avoid freely mixing those elements on a page. Even if a smart preflight program was to catch these elements in a PDF, it would probably be on the 11th hour and there would be very little time left for making design changes.
The business of handling PDFs with these elements is not a problem in itself IMO. The problem begins when reseparating images and graphics for the purpose of matching a press condition or to save ink. There, anything can happen and will happen.
Everybody likes PDF and it is here to stay. In most instances, it works. Like 99.8% of the time, which isn't bad in itself. The rest of the time, issues have to be caught before making plates. At the quantity of pages that go through a typical workflow, no one can give 100% assurance that everything will go through smoothly, all the time. But everybody strives for 100%.
Best / Roger Breton
-----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Marc Sitkin Sent: August-24-12 9:34 AM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: PDF, spot colors,RIPs, and ink jet printers
We've had terrible results printing any pdf via a RIP if transparency and spot color was involved. The explanation from out RIP vendor was that the problem was a result of the conversion process differing from Adobe's color engine. We've had to RIP files to tiff in photoshop first as a workaround.
On 8/24/2012 9:27 AM, Steve Miller wrote:
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender.
"The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
Is this a true statement?
Regards,
-- Marc Sitkin
NEW ADDRESS!
digitalmomentum,llc 1700 NW 15th Ave Suite 360 Pompano Beach, FL 33069
954-973-2670 phone 888-880-5851
web site: www.digitalmomentum.com
Support Sports for Israel Maccabi Usa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO6tgwZTwTA
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Seems like an old school fallback to blame the PDF format and suggest a .eps, .tiff or .jpg Well, not knowing what RIP they are using or what app you're making your files in makes it hard to suggest a workflow. One one hand, whatever works - works. On the other hand, mastering these concepts and mastering the PDF process could be a skill that could prove worthwhile elsewhere. Do what's best for you! Scott Martin precise color and workflow training http://www.on-sight.com/ On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Steve Miller wrote:
In this workflow, the ink jet printer is the final destination. So the PDF files would be printed to the ink jet printer through a APPE enabled color managed RIP. Therefore, no plates, no ink saving software, etc... Just PDF to RIP to ink jet.
Steve, Where does color management take place? In the RIP? Or in the workflow? Is the RIP getting "raw" DeviceCMYK and apply some kind of conversion on output, or is the RIP receiving already managed pages, and therefore only apply some kind of linearization or calibration to the Data? My experience is that, if plain DeviceCMYK is sent to the RIP, and the RIP is color-smart like an ORIS ColorTuner then, no harm can happen to the data. It depends where color management take place in your process. But printing to an inkjet printer is pretty fool-proof these days. Best / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Steve Miller Sent: August-24-12 10:07 AM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: PDF, spot colors,RIPs, and ink jet printers In this workflow, the ink jet printer is the final destination. So the PDF files would be printed to the ink jet printer through a APPE enabled color managed RIP. Therefore, no plates, no ink saving software, etc... Just PDF to RIP to ink jet. -- Steve Miller Color Management Specialist "Quality Begins Here" BIC Advertising & Promotional Products 1000 3rd Ave. SW Sleepy Eye, MN 56085 Tel.: (1) 507 794 8203 E-mail: slmiller@norwood.com www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This electronic message is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the use of the individual or company named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communications is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please immediately notify us by telephone, and return the original message to us at the address below. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: As provided for in Treasury regulations, advice (if any) relating to federal taxes that is contained in this communication (including attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the IRS Code or (2) promotion, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein: Norwood & BIC Graphic, 14421 Myerlake Circle, Clearwater, FL 33760. www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com On 24/08/2012 8:53, "Roger Breton" <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote:
It is true that transparency, gradients aka smooth shading and spot colors are a PDF workflow's Achile heel. Short of having a permanent solution, the best bet is to avoid freely mixing those elements on a page. Even if a smart preflight program was to catch these elements in a PDF, it would probably be on the 11th hour and there would be very little time left for making design changes.
The business of handling PDFs with these elements is not a problem in itself IMO. The problem begins when reseparating images and graphics for the purpose of matching a press condition or to save ink. There, anything can happen and will happen.
Everybody likes PDF and it is here to stay. In most instances, it works. Like 99.8% of the time, which isn't bad in itself. The rest of the time, issues have to be caught before making plates. At the quantity of pages that go through a typical workflow, no one can give 100% assurance that everything will go through smoothly, all the time. But everybody strives for 100%.
Best / Roger Breton
-----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Marc Sitkin Sent: August-24-12 9:34 AM To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: Re: PDF, spot colors,RIPs, and ink jet printers
We've had terrible results printing any pdf via a RIP if transparency and spot color was involved. The explanation from out RIP vendor was that the problem was a result of the conversion process differing from Adobe's color engine. We've had to RIP files to tiff in photoshop first as a workaround.
On 8/24/2012 9:27 AM, Steve Miller wrote:
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender.
"The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
Is this a true statement?
Regards,
-- Marc Sitkin
NEW ADDRESS!
digitalmomentum,llc 1700 NW 15th Ave Suite 360 Pompano Beach, FL 33069
954-973-2670 phone 888-880-5851
web site: www.digitalmomentum.com
Support Sports for Israel Maccabi Usa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO6tgwZTwTA
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I have found the big challenge to PDF workflows is getting the designers to make excellent, bullet-proof PDFs that won't have problems further down the line. There are too many ways to make PDFs that will have problems and not enough education about how to make excellent PDFs. I do a fair amount of print vender/client integration consulting so I spend a lot of time educating designers on this and now strongly encourage them to do their own, in-house proofing from said PDFs before sending files out to their print vendor. Doing so causes all sorts of problems at first, which illustrates to them the importance of getting it right. Once they are able to make excellent SWOP, GRACoL or custom certifiable inkjet proofs in-house, they send out their PDFs to their print vendor with a level of confidence they didn't have before. The net result is that the print vendors love these designers and their files print quickly without incident. Spot colors and transparency are not a problem as long as the source files and PDFs are generated properly. As you can imagine, flattening transparency in the PDF is a big part of this! Scott Martin precise color and workflow training http://www.on-sight.com/ On Aug 24, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Steve Miller wrote:
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender.
"The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
Is this a true statement?
-- Steve Miller Color Management Specialist
"Quality Begins Here"
BIC Advertising & Promotional Products 1000 3rd Ave. SW Sleepy Eye, MN 56085
Tel.: (1) 507 794 8203 E-mail: slmiller@norwood.com www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This electronic message is confidential and may contain legally privileged information intended only for the use of the individual or company named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communications is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please immediately notify us by telephone, and return the original message to us at the address below. IRS Circular 230 Disclosure: As provided for in Treasury regulations, advice (if any) relating to federal taxes that is contained in this communication (including attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the IRS Code or (2) promotion, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein: Norwood & BIC Graphic, 14421 Myerlake Circle, Clearwater, FL 33760. www.norwood.com / www.bicgraphic.com
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Scott Martin wrote:
I have found the big challenge to PDF workflows is getting the designers to make excellent, bullet-proof PDFs that won't have problems further down the line. There are too many ways to make PDFs that will have problems and not enough education about how to make excellent PDFs.
Gee, sounds a lot like the description of Postscript, and the sort of problems that PDF was going to solve.... Graeme Gill.
On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Graeme Gill wrote:
Gee, sounds a lot like the description of Postscript, and the sort of problems that PDF was going to solve....
Yes, your point is well taken. I think Adobe could be doing more to make it easier on people. Don't get me started on how Adobe could make things easier on us by having smarter defaults and better implementations across the board! Scott Martin precise photographic color and workflow training http://www.on-sight.com/
Scott, Before we go bagging Adobe i think it's fair to say that most of the problems stem from third party implementations and ill-educated designers ignoring all the work that has been done by industry groups like GWG and DDAP amongst others not to mention that of the working groups that have contributed to the recognition of the various ISO standards like PDF/X (in all it's flavours). Prefilghting tools are not designed on the basis of a poorly written PDF specification but to detect the inappropriate components of a PDF file that has been poorly constructed for the designated output. It might be worthwhile inviting Adobe to comment on this subject as I've read many informative postings from Leonard Rosenthal. He is always willing to inform the ill-informed like some of those that have already contributed to this discussion. Mark Stegman On 25/08/2012, at 9:41 PM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
On Aug 24, 2012, at 10:51 PM, Graeme Gill wrote:
Gee, sounds a lot like the description of Postscript, and the sort of problems that PDF was going to solve....
Yes, your point is well taken. I think Adobe could be doing more to make it easier on people. Don't get me started on how Adobe could make things easier on us by having smarter defaults and better implementations across the board!
Scott Martin
precise photographic color and workflow training http://www.on-sight.com/
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Hi Steve, If this is true then I ask to what extent it matters. Transparencies are rendered to pixels at one stage or another in all print workflows and there is no right or wrong appearance for spot color gradients except for closed-loop systems with arbitrary reference. As for the solids, even Pantone changes the CIElab values on occasion. I have encountered problems with all four formats. Using Photoshop as a RIP may render differently than a dedicated RIP sometimes but its equal opportunity for better or worse. We RIP 1000+ pages per day for offset printing and rendering errors are very rare (none, one or two a month that we are aware of). PDFs can process dynamically due to output intents, page boxes, xmp data and so forth which can make the requirements for a workflow or RIP configuration less clear. I find with problems files that the designer isn't even able to rasterize a page to their own liking; I call these bad files because they must be reworked to render correctly regardless of downstream workflow. My gripe with PDFs happens when viewing, or Ripping to screen. 1. Line widths that should be displayed less than 1 monitor pixel width are displayed no less than the size of a monitor pixel for obvious reasons. Acrobat has to decide to show or not show the object. Unfortunately 0.00 mm width lines are displayed too. 2. Page display preferences can (a) make outlined fonts look unrealistically chunky and (b) show white lines that will not exist in print. 3. The default rendering intent for cmyk to monitor RGB is relative colorimetric and it is not intuitive for clients to "simulate paper" to see dynamic range realistically. 4. Multi-page mixed stock/surface PDFs can only have one output intent rather than let this happen on a page level basis. 5. Overprint preview is not forced in non pdf/x files and even then can be over-ridden in preferences. These types of things will entitle customers to say something was or was not in the proof that was not matched in print. Toggling Page Display preferences is necessary to see some documents correctly. No single setting works for all PDFs. Considering this I still would not suggest against ripping PDFs to screen. Dedicated pixel formats can be misleading too. Matt Louis On 8/24/12 8:27 AM, "Steve Miller" <SLMiller@norwood.com> wrote:
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender.
"The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
Is this a true statement?
-- Steve Miller Color Management Specialist
Any RIP that will pass the Altona or Ghent Work Group test suites will work just fine. If you don't want to buy a RIP but need something to generate "high res" bitmaps from PDF's then use callas pdfToolbox Server to convert each page to a high res CMYK TIFF. A Harlequin low res RIP (up to 1500 dpi) will work just fine and make bitmaps or direct drive the printer. Just about any modern RIP will work great. To me it sounds like a lot of "Bachelor of Science" if you get my drift... Feel free to contact me offline if you like. Matt Beals Consultant Callas Partner/Trainer Enfocus Certified Trainer Markzware Recognized Trainer (206) 618-2537 - Mobile mailto:matt@mattbeals.com Come visit me at: http://www.automatetheworkflow.com http://www.mattbeals.com http://blog.mattbeals.com Friends don't let friends write HTML email On Friday, August 24, 2012 6:27am, "Steve Miller" <SLMiller@norwood.com> said:
I've been doing some research with PDF files and RIPs. We want to have a PDF only workflow and one RIP vender is saying we should not use PDF files. Instead, they recommend .eps, .tif or .jpg. Here's a reply from one RIP vender.
"The pdf print engine is implemented as a base feature in the" (enter any vender name here) " RIP programs. It has advanced handling of pdf and pdfx file formats. It was necessary for" (enter any vender name here) "to add this feature due to Adobe's constant alteration of the pdf encoding process and handling of transparencies, spot color handling in gradients, and compression methods. There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
Is this a true statement?
-- Steve Miller Color Management Specialist
"Quality Begins Here"
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Steve,
There is a basic flaw in the conversion of spot color in the pdf format to the rastered ink dots of an inkjet printer. This is a problem that all RIPs have.. It is a problem inherent in the pdf format being rendered into the inkjet dot format. The repeat printability of colors suffers in this format. While Adobe also alters the EPS format, color consistency from print to print is stable."
That's the bit of it...
Is this a true statement?
...and no. It's complete BS. Mike Adams Correct Color
participants (10)
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G Mike Adams
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Graeme Gill
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Marc Sitkin
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Mark Nelson
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Mark Stegman
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Matt Beals
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Matt Louis
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Roger Breton
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Scott Martin
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Steve Miller