I suspect the original art pigments along with the 1Ds Mark II sensor is part of the issue. What do you think?
Need advice and help. I will start with what I am using: EOS 1Ds MK II; UV coated tubes in two White Lighting, Ultra 1800's; polarizing filters on lights and camera lens; EF Micro 100 mm L. OS 10.6.8, PS CS 5 extended. Epson Pro 9600 with matte black ink. Substrate for this client is Moab Entrada Brite. Printer, substrate, and inks custom profiled by me using i1Publish version 1.3.1. i1Pro version "D". Lens/camera/illumination custom profiled with Classic ColorChecker as well as he ColorChecker Passport. Everything converted to DNG. I only use Adobe DNG profile editor to create the custom camera profile. Also did image capture with natural light and polarizing filter on same lens. MBPro 17" with non glare display. MultiSync PA271w, custom profiles with SpectraView. My issue: ColorChecker Passport as well as ClassicColor Checker targets look fine on display and on print. So does two different white balance targets. Most of the captured image of the original art appears fine. Exception is the desert sand/dirt. I have imaged this original probably eleven (11) times. Studio flash, and natural daylight coming into the studio. Different exposures. The targets are in most of the image files, and sometimes alone. In PS CS5, camera raw, I have attempted various adjustments. First, exposure. Temperature, and other features. Then I open in PS. Immediately choose the printer profile, and continue to fruitlessly modify image. I do have a client, artist, that knows how to use selective color (much better than me). She will be in my studio next Monday. I suspect the original art pigments along with the 1Ds Mark II sensor is part of the issue. What do you think? Should another forum be more appropriate, please tell me which one. I thank you all, in advance for your advice and guidance. Cheers David B. Miller, Pharm. D. David B. Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. 3809 Alabama Street Bellingham, WA 98226 360 739 2826 digitalimaging@dnmillerphoto.com Sent from my MacBook Pro
Might help to know what the problem with the "sand" is? Color, brightness? Grtx René Damkot www.damkot.com www.getcolormanaged.com Sent from my iPhone On 8 mei 2012, at 21:44, "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <digitalimaging@dnmillerphoto.com> wrote:
Need advice and help. I will start with what I am using: EOS 1Ds MK II; UV coated tubes in two White Lighting, Ultra 1800's; polarizing filters on lights and camera lens; EF Micro 100 mm L. OS 10.6.8, PS CS 5 extended. Epson Pro 9600 with matte black ink. Substrate for this client is Moab Entrada Brite. Printer, substrate, and inks custom profiled by me using i1Publish version 1.3.1. i1Pro version "D".
Lens/camera/illumination custom profiled with Classic ColorChecker as well as he ColorChecker Passport. Everything converted to DNG. I only use Adobe DNG profile editor to create the custom camera profile.
Also did image capture with natural light and polarizing filter on same lens.
MBPro 17" with non glare display. MultiSync PA271w, custom profiles with SpectraView.
My issue: ColorChecker Passport as well as ClassicColor Checker targets look fine on display and on print. So does two different white balance targets.
Most of the captured image of the original art appears fine. Exception is the desert sand/dirt.
I have imaged this original probably eleven (11) times. Studio flash, and natural daylight coming into the studio. Different exposures. The targets are in most of the image files, and sometimes alone.
In PS CS5, camera raw, I have attempted various adjustments. First, exposure. Temperature, and other features. Then I open in PS. Immediately choose the printer profile, and continue to fruitlessly modify image. I do have a client, artist, that knows how to use selective color (much better than me). She will be in my studio next Monday.
I suspect the original art pigments along with the 1Ds Mark II sensor is part of the issue. What do you think?
Should another forum be more appropriate, please tell me which one.
I thank you all, in advance for your advice and guidance.
Cheers
David B. Miller, Pharm. D.
David B. Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. 3809 Alabama Street Bellingham, WA 98226 360 739 2826 digitalimaging@dnmillerphoto.com Sent from my MacBook Pro
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Hello David: Dirty desert sand, or dirty yellows, reds and oranges similar to shot with Fuji Velvia. Try a polarizer with less response to green/cyan. Maybe Rodenstock HR Digital super MC or Digital pro MC. If you want to see the difference try with two captures of the classic ColorChecker or Passport with and without polarizer filter and will see the difference of dE and how it charges over the green channel. I do that with ACR Calibrator Script (Thomas Fors/ Rags Gardner) and will surprise how calibration tab is altered by the calibration script. I know the work is well done by Eric Chan and Thomas Lianza, but I can't see numbers with DNG Profile Editor, that I use for approachings starting with the ACR camera profile, the more updated ACR version that can afford. But this is not your issue. ACR Calibrator Scrips likes EV15: 1/125, f16, ISO 100. Jose Bueno
Just spit balling... Your using a Bayer pattern camera. Could this be a moiré or color aliasing issue? Have you checked at the very highest resolution in PS? Check <dpreview.com> for a very nice explanation of color aliasing. I have had many printing issues using inkjets, where the "dot pattern" was the issue. Inkjets must have dot patterns afterall. Some RIPs offer dot pattern options, or at least offer their take on the pattern process. I happen to like Epson's technique and just work around it. My solution was solved by adjusting the color balance to produce the color I wanted to see. In my case it was tweaking the magenta/green and yellow/blue sliders in <Color Balance>. You may have to select the area and treat it differently from the rest. ICC profiles can't solve everything, and actually cause many problem, generally they cause fewer problems than they correct. Have you tried a BetterLight scanback or a Sigma [SD1 Merrill] body for the image capture, neither uses the Bayer pattern. If you like, see if you can get Mike Collette [of BetterLight at mike@betterlight.com] to comment on your findings. He is a very critical thinker and knows how to make sand look right <http://www.betterlight.com/gallery/index.html>. Tim Vitale Paper & Photography Conservation Oriental Scrolls & Screens in the Western Manner Digital Facsimiles & Digital Image Restoration Remastering still Film to Digital [distorted too] Archive & Collection Surveys Video & Film Preservation Surveys Preservation & Imaging Consulting Vitale Art Conservation 2407 Telegraph Avenue #312 Oakland, CA 94612 510-594-8277 510-508-4162 cell 510-891-1602 fax tjvitale@ix.netcom.com Website: http://vitaleartconservation.com/ Resume: http://vitaleartconservation.com/vitale_long-resume_v21.pdf Video Preservation: http://videopreservation.conservation-us.org/ (2007) Albumen Photography website: http://albumen.conservation-us.org/ (2001) Brief History of Imaging Tech: http://vitaleartconservation.com/bhit.pdf
If the problem is aliasing, you can prove it by taking a defocussed shot. If it goes away when defocussed, it was aliasing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Vitale" <tjvitale@ix.netcom.com> To: "Rene Damkot" <rene@damkot.com> Cc: "ColorSync User List List" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 5:13:04 PM Subject: RE: I suspect the original art pigments along with the 1Ds Mark IIsensor is part of the issue. What do you think? Just spit balling... Your using a Bayer pattern camera. Could this be a moiré or color aliasing issue? Have you checked at the very highest resolution in PS? Check <dpreview.com> for a very nice explanation of color aliasing. I have had many printing issues using inkjets, where the "dot pattern" was the issue. Inkjets must have dot patterns afterall. Some RIPs offer dot pattern options, or at least offer their take on the pattern process. I happen to like Epson's technique and just work around it. My solution was solved by adjusting the color balance to produce the color I wanted to see. In my case it was tweaking the magenta/green and yellow/blue sliders in <Color Balance>. You may have to select the area and treat it differently from the rest. ICC profiles can't solve everything, and actually cause many problem, generally they cause fewer problems than they correct. Have you tried a BetterLight scanback or a Sigma [SD1 Merrill] body for the image capture, neither uses the Bayer pattern. If you like, see if you can get Mike Collette [of BetterLight at mike@betterlight.com] to comment on your findings. He is a very critical thinker and knows how to make sand look right <http://www.betterlight.com/gallery/index.html>. Tim Vitale Paper & Photography Conservation Oriental Scrolls & Screens in the Western Manner Digital Facsimiles & Digital Image Restoration Remastering still Film to Digital [distorted too] Archive & Collection Surveys Video & Film Preservation Surveys Preservation & Imaging Consulting Vitale Art Conservation 2407 Telegraph Avenue #312 Oakland, CA 94612 510-594-8277 510-508-4162 cell 510-891-1602 fax tjvitale@ix.netcom.com Website: http://vitaleartconservation.com/ Resume: http://vitaleartconservation.com/vitale_long-resume_v21.pdf Video Preservation: http://videopreservation.conservation-us.org/ (2007) Albumen Photography website: http://albumen.conservation-us.org/ (2001) Brief History of Imaging Tech: http://vitaleartconservation.com/bhit.pdf _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/waynebretl%40comcast... This email sent to waynebretl@comcast.net
I don't see an explicit mention of checking the out-of-gamut warning display in Photoshop in concert with your printer profile. Have you tried this? I have one image with a background that could be described as colored similar to desert sand which is mapped to green or blue with my profiled printer. While in this case it's an acceptable rendering, I'm still figuring out how to predict the color moves necessary to predictably bring the background into gamut. Pete On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Millers' Photography L.L.C. < digitalimaging@dnmillerphoto.com> wrote:
Need advice and help. I will start with what I am using: EOS 1Ds MK II; UV coated tubes in two White Lighting, Ultra 1800's; polarizing filters on lights and camera lens; EF Micro 100 mm L. OS 10.6.8, PS CS 5 extended. Epson Pro 9600 with matte black ink. Substrate for this client is Moab Entrada Brite. Printer, substrate, and inks custom profiled by me using i1Publish version 1.3.1. i1Pro version "D".
Lens/camera/illumination custom profiled with Classic ColorChecker as well as he ColorChecker Passport. Everything converted to DNG. I only use Adobe DNG profile editor to create the custom camera profile.
Also did image capture with natural light and polarizing filter on same lens.
MBPro 17" with non glare display. MultiSync PA271w, custom profiles with SpectraView.
My issue: ColorChecker Passport as well as ClassicColor Checker targets look fine on display and on print. So does two different white balance targets.
Most of the captured image of the original art appears fine. Exception is the desert sand/dirt.
I have imaged this original probably eleven (11) times. Studio flash, and natural daylight coming into the studio. Different exposures. The targets are in most of the image files, and sometimes alone.
In PS CS5, camera raw, I have attempted various adjustments. First, exposure. Temperature, and other features. Then I open in PS. Immediately choose the printer profile, and continue to fruitlessly modify image. I do have a client, artist, that knows how to use selective color (much better than me). She will be in my studio next Monday.
I suspect the original art pigments along with the 1Ds Mark II sensor is part of the issue. What do you think?
Should another forum be more appropriate, please tell me which one.
I thank you all, in advance for your advice and guidance.
Cheers
David B. Miller, Pharm. D.
David B. Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. 3809 Alabama Street Bellingham, WA 98226 360 739 2826 digitalimaging@dnmillerphoto.com Sent from my MacBook Pro
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On May 8, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Pete Bergstrom wrote:
I don't see an explicit mention of checking the out-of-gamut warning display in Photoshop in concert with your printer profile. Have you tried this?
Yes I have Thank you for your prompt consideration and response. Sincerely, David B. Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. 3809 Alabama Street Bellingham, WA 98226 360 739 2826 digitalimaging@dnmillerphoto.com Sent from my MacBook Pro
On May 8, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Pete Bergstrom wrote:
I don't see an explicit mention of checking the out-of-gamut warning display in Photoshop in concert with your printer profile. Have you tried this?
It has been suggested instead of using ProPhoto RGB, I use Adobe RGB 1998. I even went to sRGB. Did not appear to help Thank you for your prompt consideration and response. Sincerely, David B. Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. 3809 Alabama Street Bellingham, WA 98226 360 739 2826 digitalimaging@dnmillerphoto.com Sent from my MacBook Pro
While the file is still in Camera Raw I would suggest isolating the offending hue using the HSL sliders. There is a tab for that. Looks like sliders. You might be able to shift the hue and/or saturation of the sand without moving much else. I have tried to use the raw workflow with DNG and DNG Profiler and Betterlight Scanback but found it was not as accurate as using InCamera ICC profiler and tif files. You could still use the DNG "profile" in your raw workflow, activating it in ACR at the Camera Calibration tab, open file and assign the profile from InCamera, then convert to workspace RGB profile. The above sentence presumes that after camera calibration in Passport or DNG Profiler the Colorchecker is captured and used in InCamera to create the custom input profile. Cheers, Barry Rudick Aker Imaging
Hello Barry: If the problem, as I can see, is the surplus of cyan by the light through the polarized filters and in lens polarization, InCamera will do better with spectral measurement of light source only in combination with ColorChecker SG. And don't go "profile naked" if you have the spectral data of SG and use the build in small ColorChecker use DNG Profile Editor, or the entire SG and ACR Calibrator Script. Don't know if ArgyllCMS by itself or Jose Pereira's Rough Profiler make use of spectral measurement of light source. Let me insist in a better grade polarizer or the elimination of cross or single polarization in the workflow. ACR Calibrator Script will show you the numbers. Jose Bueno
participants (7)
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Barry Rudick
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José Ángel Bueno García
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Millers' Photography L.L.C.
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Pete Bergstrom
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Rene Damkot
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Tim Vitale
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