Is anyone able to discriminate between the 16.7 million colors in this 24-bit RGB image? https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqko8JmNRgIB2qvxz-iA?e=7il8Xk Be honest. / Roger
There's a color missing Prove me wrong On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:59 Roger Breton via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
Is anyone able to discriminate between the 16.7 million colors in this 24-bit RGB image?
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqko8JmNRgIB2qvxz-iA?e=7il8Xk
Be honest.
/ Roger
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“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Søren Kierkegaard
On Jan 6, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Wire ~ via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
There's a color missing
Prove me wrong
On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:59 Roger Breton via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
Is anyone able to discriminate between the 16.7 million colors in this 24-bit RGB image?
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqko8JmNRgIB2qvxz-iA?e=7il8Xk
Be honest.
/ Roger
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Got a copy of ColorThink Pro? Take the TIFF, load it into that product, Extract all unique color values into a color list. What do you get? I get 208486. Then use Convert all colors to list, what do you get? I get 250000 You got a silly answer ("1 is missing") but there are tools to actually analyze such a document without the need to assume..... Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ <http://www.digitaldog.net/>
On Jan 6, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
Is anyone able to discriminate between the 16.7 million colors in this 24-bit RGB image?
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqko8JmNRgIB2qvxz-iA?e=7il8Xk
Be honest.
/ Roger
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On Jan 6, 2020, at 12:58 PM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
Is anyone able to discriminate between the 16.7 million colors in this 24-bit RGB image?
It's all one color. That color's name? Plaid. And (not that I'm trying to prove a point, just musing) if you change the surround light, the color illuminating the area around the display you're observing, or place the display in front of a green wall vs a red wall, the colors you'll be able to differentiate between will be different. That is, the subset of #SomeHugeNumberOfColors between which you could accurately A/B distinguish when viewed against a bright green wall will be a different subset than the subset of colors you could A/B distinguish against a dark red wall. As has been pointed out, in practice one of the most visible reasons that a 10 bit system (display/operating system/app/content) is better than a 8 bit system is in gradients between similar colors. Ever see a sunset in a movie during a scene fade to black? Sure. Ever seen that without banding in the gradients around the sun? Eh...probably not, that's a tough scene to pull off well. More bits of precision means smaller bands. So basically yeah, more is better, but not because you'll be able to see all the colors at the same time.
#SomeHugeNumberOfColors
"#SomeHugeNumberOfRGBTriplets" is more accurately what I meant, if you're defining "color" as a user's perception of light stimuli. But then what's the name for what a spectrophotometer reads? Is that a "color"? Maybe it's a set of measured values. At any rate, you've got: 1) the number of RGB triplets (let's just stick with RGB for now) so 8 bit: ((2 to the power of 8) to the power of 3) = 16,777,216 10 bit: ((2 to the 10th) to the 3rd) = 1,073,741,824 12 bit: ((2 to the 12th) to the 3rd) = 68,719,476,736 2) the number of different measured values your spectrophotometer will will read when pointed at your display as it's trying to display those triplets. How many? It depends on both your display and your spectro. 3) the number of individually perceptible colors you could perceive given any of those large sets of inputs, for a given environment, meaning for a given light level and color surround. Your eye (well, your brain) adapts constantly for your surround. And it all seems pretty unnecessary and over the top until you're trying to make a nice smooth gradient between two similar colors. 10 bit vs 8 bit gives you four times as many bands...and although 4 is better than 1, it can still be obviously noticeable depending on the two colors you're trying to go between. Same with 12 vs 10 I'd think, 16 is better than 4 but it still might not be enough to get an imperceptibly smooth gradient between two similar colors. So is there anywhere you can see a nice, smooth, imperceptibly changing gradient? Turns out yeah. The sky. Go out and look at how smoothly the sky transitions from one color overhead to a wildly different color at the horizon (I mean without clouds). It's pretty amazing. And it kind of makes me want to never look at a display again.
John, thank you for the insight about "plaid". This is exactly the point. Experiments the CIE devised are comparative. They dispensed with the qualia—thew it out—and built a model based on population sampling. Thanks to this model, we have a useful concept of dE. You don't want to upend this and claim that because you have a dE you have a definitive claim on a countable qualia. Absurd. Trivial cases violate the model. Try closing your eyes: thought experiment done! On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 3:07 PM John Gnaegy via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
#SomeHugeNumberOfColors
"#SomeHugeNumberOfRGBTriplets" is more accurately what I meant, if you're defining "color" as a user's perception of light stimuli. But then what's the name for what a spectrophotometer reads? Is that a "color"? Maybe it's a set of measured values.
At any rate, you've got:
1) the number of RGB triplets (let's just stick with RGB for now) so 8 bit: ((2 to the power of 8) to the power of 3) = 16,777,216 10 bit: ((2 to the 10th) to the 3rd) = 1,073,741,824 12 bit: ((2 to the 12th) to the 3rd) = 68,719,476,736 2) the number of different measured values your spectrophotometer will will read when pointed at your display as it's trying to display those triplets. How many? It depends on both your display and your spectro. 3) the number of individually perceptible colors you could perceive given any of those large sets of inputs, for a given environment, meaning for a given light level and color surround. Your eye (well, your brain) adapts constantly for your surround.
And it all seems pretty unnecessary and over the top until you're trying to make a nice smooth gradient between two similar colors. 10 bit vs 8 bit gives you four times as many bands...and although 4 is better than 1, it can still be obviously noticeable depending on the two colors you're trying to go between. Same with 12 vs 10 I'd think, 16 is better than 4 but it still might not be enough to get an imperceptibly smooth gradient between two similar colors.
So is there anywhere you can see a nice, smooth, imperceptibly changing gradient? Turns out yeah. The sky. Go out and look at how smoothly the sky transitions from one color overhead to a wildly different color at the horizon (I mean without clouds). It's pretty amazing. And it kind of makes me want to never look at a display again.
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participants (4)
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Andrew Rodney
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graxx＠videotron.ca
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John Gnaegy
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Wire ~