Hi Karl, Good to hear from you. Actually, I was referring to the more utilitarian CMYK-CMYK DLP once in widespread use in better prepress departments, along with graphics-quality monitors (properly calibrated and profiled) and at least a modicum of color knowledge. Commercial print, aside from packaging, is a shrinking industry that does not attract quite the attention of software developers it once did, nor as many talented, creative young people looking for a career with growth opportunities. Consolidation and increasing bureaucracy have also taken their toll on employee training and innovation. Like you, I’ve been fortunate in being able to work with the sharpest, most creative minds in color management and applied color science today, and some pretty great clients, and now have the tools to resolve questions we barely knew how to ask twenty years ago. This stands in ironic contrast to the general lack of understanding of their purpose. Meanwhile, it is indeed refreshing to take a swim now and then in clean, pure, RGB waters with those photographers, artists, printmakers, and others for whom color has but three numbers and is an important means of expression. Thank you for your many years of service and contributions to the graphic arts community. Stay in touch. Best, Mike Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services mike@mspgraphics.com 707.321.7855

On Nov 10, 2021, at 6:07 AM, Karl Koch <basicc@me.com> wrote:

Hi Mike,

try to convert an RGB file to CMYK using a device link profile in Photoshop and you know, why this type of profile is being ignored by the majority of users ;)

I´still into color management and it is still exciting. I just dropped the printing side of it, photography (museums, archives, pro-photographers) is much more rewarding. Profiling cameras and calibrating/profiling monitors is where the color journey starts and most users are familiar with the GIGO principle (gabage in, garbage ot – for those who are not).

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards / Bien cordialement / Cariñosos saludos / Cumprimentos / I migliori saluti / Met vriendelijke groet/ Med venlig hilsen / С уважением / مخلص تمہارا / تحية طيبة / 最好的问候 / よろしくお願いします。 Karl Koch

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Am 04.11.2021 um 23:35 schrieb Mike Strickler via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>>:

Thank you, Don, for all your contributions to FRACoL and F7.

My observation of the general situation in commercial print is that there is a widening gap between the capabilities of of available solutions and the level of knowledge and implementation by users. To take one example as an indication, I rarely encounter a prepress manager who knows what a device link profile is and nearly none that uses them, in spite of the fact that color cannot be properly managed in a conventional printing operation without them. Thanks to the efforts of Don and others, printers have a much better idea how to print optimally and consistently. One can do a great deal without CM when inks and press operation are already standardized and simply need to be used within specifications, targeted to standardized appearance values. But when needed adjustments exceed what is available through density controls and curves alone (for example when FM screening or hi-fi inks are used), there is little understanding of required steps upstream. The work of the ICC and software developers have given us nearly unlimited control over the color workflow, but that is not where the limitaions now lie.

Photographers and wide-format printers are much more interested in CM general, because it is an obvious requirement for printing RGB and CMYK images on inkjet and other “nontraditional” devices if acceptable results are to be expected. These curious folks are well represented on this forum, and it is still a good and useful place to be.

Mike Strickler mike@mspgraphics.com <mailto:mike@mspgraphics.com> <mailto:mike@mspgraphics.com <mailto:mike@mspgraphics.com>> 707.321.7855

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Message: 2 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2021 10:17:43 -0400 From: Don Hutcheson <don@hutchcolor.com <mailto:don@hutchcolor.com>> To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: colorsync-users Digest, Vol 18, Issue 14 Message-ID: <3EDE6901-7B47-4893-956F-7F245B947AC1@hutchcolor.com <mailto:3EDE6901-7B47-4893-956F-7F245B947AC1@hutchcolor.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

It?s a credit to the original ICC vision, the passionate software writers and the crazy-brave pioneering users, that color management has been integrated under the hood of virtually all color workflows. It?s hard to find a desktop printer or monitor that doesn?t produce pleasing color from Photoshop, regardless of the image source. At the commercial level, standardized color spaces like FRACoL and gogra plus G7 calibration have largely eliminated the old problems we pre-press/ pressroom wallahs used to tackle. But most of the improvement can be attributed to digital cameras and the astonishingly good image quality produced by today?s cell phone cameras.

Having said all that, there?s still a need for technical curiosity and ever more demanding problem identifiers like Refik. If we let go of the reins, economic corner-cutting will reduce everything to some low common denominator. Hopefully passionate photographers (which is what printing?s all about) will never stand for that.

Don Hutcheson don@hutchcolor.com <mailto:don@hutchcolor.com> 908-500-0341 (Typos courtesy of iPhone's teeny-tiny keyboard and not-so tiny thumbs)

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