i1Profiler linearization
Hi, does anyone know if there is a way to see a curves graph of the linearization measurements when using i1profiler? I'd also like to average the readings from two separate targets or at least be able to take more readings per patch. Can this be done with i1Profiler? I'm building a profile for a solvent printer. I have printed two linearization targets and want to average those readings. I can't find a way to view any of the data or compare any of the data for linearization with i1Profiler. I'm using version 1.5 Thank you, David
I''ve been doing a lot of Epson GS6000 and Surecolor calibration the past 6 months and a working on an article about it. Awesome stuff when it's done well! If you don't mind me asking, why are you linearizing in i1Profiler? Are you calibrating the printer in ONYX? If so, I know how ONYX can be a little funky especially in the black measurements in the linearization phase. I find that I get better readings wish I read patch-by-patch on the linearization step in ONYX with the i1Pro2 device. No so with the iSis or DTP70. With these spot measurements I'm getting a great linearization in the RIP and don't see a need to linearize in i1Profiler. I do like i1pP's profiles over NYX profiles... As for i1Profiler, you can save as many measurement data sets as you like and drag and drop them on to the Measurement Icon to average them. But again, I think it's important to get to the route of your problem. Linearization is best done in the RIP, not in i1Profiler, so if you're not getting a good lin in the RIP let's address that. Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Aug 5, 2013, at 3:31 PM, David Wollmann <david@lenzart.us> wrote:
Hi, does anyone know if there is a way to see a curves graph of the linearization measurements when using i1profiler?
I'd also like to average the readings from two separate targets or at least be able to take more readings per patch. Can this be done with i1Profiler?
I'm building a profile for a solvent printer. I have printed two linearization targets and want to average those readings. I can't find a way to view any of the data or compare any of the data for linearization with i1Profiler. I'm using version 1.5
Thank you, David _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/scott%40on-sight.com
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David, I don't believe i1P's linearization step is what you would call a "linearization" in the traditional sense (tone curves of some sort)....I believe it's like MonacoPROFILER's linearization function where all it does is look at the tone/colorimetric distribution of the device and then produces an optimized patch set with device values meant to better model the device.....it does NOT modify device behavior like a traditional linearization/calibration curve.....for that you'd need a RIP. As far as averaging more readings, if you're using an iSis or i1Pro, just build your chart with larger patches....as it scans, it should grab more readings per patch and average them. Terry On Aug 5, 2013, at 4:31 PM, David Wollmann <david@lenzart.us> wrote:
Hi, does anyone know if there is a way to see a curves graph of the linearization measurements when using i1profiler?
I'd also like to average the readings from two separate targets or at least be able to take more readings per patch. Can this be done with i1Profiler?
I'm building a profile for a solvent printer. I have printed two linearization targets and want to average those readings. I can't find a way to view any of the data or compare any of the data for linearization with i1Profiler. I'm using version 1.5
Thank you, David
Good point Terry, thank you for reminding me. Larger patches? I don't follow, an increase in the patch count, or do you mean a physically larger patch size? Scott, yes I am using Onyx which I used to use much more often, someone else prints from this printer and I get thrown in once in awhile to build a profile. Always a bit rusty on returning and need to refresh on the correct workflow. I see Ink Limiting was set in Onyx but the Lin file was not built there the last time. So, lovely MediaManager, fine I will build the Linearization there and then print ICC targets generated from i1Profiler. So, in the future when I update the linearization in Onyx how do I then update the ICC profile made from i1Profiler? Can I run new Onyx Linearization with the old profile? Seems an invalid approach, or do I need to print new ICC patches and make a new profile? Thank you, David On Aug 5, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Terence Wyse <wyseconsul@mac.com> wrote:
David, I don't believe i1P's linearization step is what you would call a "linearization" in the traditional sense (tone curves of some sort)....I believe it's like MonacoPROFILER's linearization function where all it does is look at the tone/colorimetric distribution of the device and then produces an optimized patch set with device values meant to better model the device.....it does NOT modify device behavior like a traditional linearization/calibration curve.....for that you'd need a RIP.
As far as averaging more readings, if you're using an iSis or i1Pro, just build your chart with larger patches....as it scans, it should grab more readings per patch and average them.
Terry
I''ve been doing a lot of Epson GS6000 and Surecolor calibration the past 6 months and a working on an article about it. If you don't mind me asking, why are you linearizing in i1Profiler? Are you calibrating the printer in ONYX? If so, I know how ONYX can be a little funky especially in the black measurements in the linearization phase. I find that I get better readings wish I read patch-by-patch on the linearization step in ONYX with the i1Pro2 device. No so with the iSis or DTP70. With these spot measurements I'm getting a great linearization in the RIP and don't see a need to linearize in i1Profiler. I do like i1pP's profiles over NYX profiles...
As for i1Profiler, you can save as many measurement data sets as you like and drag and drop them on to the Measurement Icon to average them.
But again, I think it's important to get to the route of your problem. Linearization is best done in the RIP, not in i1Profiler, so if you're not getting a good lin in the RIP let's address that.
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
David, I'm afraid it a good bit more complicated. In ONYX you need to set the per channel ink limits, linearize, determine the total ink limiting all before making the profile. It kinda takes a PHD to get it all perfectly optimized. Simply going in and relinearizing and/or making a new profile likely isn't seeing the bigger picture. It might get them back to where they were earlier but chances are a fresh calibration from scratch could enable better quality than they've seen before. If it's the GS6000 we're talking about , the methodology we use to optimize color has evolved over the years and the newer approach yields incredible results. Which printer are you dealing with? Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:00 PM, David Wollmann <david@lenzart.us> wrote:
Good point Terry, thank you for reminding me. Larger patches? I don't follow, an increase in the patch count, or do you mean a physically larger patch size?
Scott, yes I am using Onyx which I used to use much more often, someone else prints from this printer and I get thrown in once in awhile to build a profile. Always a bit rusty on returning and need to refresh on the correct workflow. I see Ink Limiting was set in Onyx but the Lin file was not built there the last time.
So, lovely MediaManager, fine I will build the Linearization there and then print ICC targets generated from i1Profiler.
So, in the future when I update the linearization in Onyx how do I then update the ICC profile made from i1Profiler? Can I run new Onyx Linearization with the old profile? Seems an invalid approach, or do I need to print new ICC patches and make a new profile?
Thank you, David
On Aug 5, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Terence Wyse <wyseconsul@mac.com> wrote:
David, I don't believe i1P's linearization step is what you would call a "linearization" in the traditional sense (tone curves of some sort)....I believe it's like MonacoPROFILER's linearization function where all it does is look at the tone/colorimetric distribution of the device and then produces an optimized patch set with device values meant to better model the device.....it does NOT modify device behavior like a traditional linearization/calibration curve.....for that you'd need a RIP.
As far as averaging more readings, if you're using an iSis or i1Pro, just build your chart with larger patches....as it scans, it should grab more readings per patch and average them.
Terry
I''ve been doing a lot of Epson GS6000 and Surecolor calibration the past 6 months and a working on an article about it. If you don't mind me asking, why are you linearizing in i1Profiler? Are you calibrating the printer in ONYX? If so, I know how ONYX can be a little funky especially in the black measurements in the linearization phase. I find that I get better readings wish I read patch-by-patch on the linearization step in ONYX with the i1Pro2 device. No so with the iSis or DTP70. With these spot measurements I'm getting a great linearization in the RIP and don't see a need to linearize in i1Profiler. I do like i1pP's profiles over NYX profiles...
As for i1Profiler, you can save as many measurement data sets as you like and drag and drop them on to the Measurement Icon to average them.
But again, I think it's important to get to the route of your problem. Linearization is best done in the RIP, not in i1Profiler, so if you're not getting a good lin in the RIP let's address that.
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
Hi Guys, I have a connected question - I'm the Gutenprint color specialist, and we're looking to make out ink curves user-accessible. So, I need an easy way for people to read a CMYK wedge and output linearisation values. Two questions: - How do I convert spectro readings to something useful eg. density measurements? Is there software that spits out a file of such from a CGATS file eg. from i1 or DTP70? - How do I derive a good linearisation distribution from said measurements? I know this stuff is done by RIPS, so far it was done manually by eye in Gutenprint, and now I need to spec some automated workflow. Edmund On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:31 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
David, I'm afraid it a good bit more complicated. In ONYX you need to set the per channel ink limits, linearize, determine the total ink limiting all before making the profile. It kinda takes a PHD to get it all perfectly optimized. Simply going in and relinearizing and/or making a new profile likely isn't seeing the bigger picture. It might get them back to where they were earlier but chances are a fresh calibration from scratch could enable better quality than they've seen before. If it's the GS6000 we're talking about , the methodology we use to optimize color has evolved over the years and the newer approach yields incredible results.
Which printer are you dealing with?
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:00 PM, David Wollmann <david@lenzart.us> wrote:
Good point Terry, thank you for reminding me. Larger patches? I don't follow, an increase in the patch count, or do you mean a physically larger patch size?
Scott, yes I am using Onyx which I used to use much more often, someone else prints from this printer and I get thrown in once in awhile to build a profile. Always a bit rusty on returning and need to refresh on the correct workflow. I see Ink Limiting was set in Onyx but the Lin file was not built there the last time.
So, lovely MediaManager, fine I will build the Linearization there and then print ICC targets generated from i1Profiler.
So, in the future when I update the linearization in Onyx how do I then update the ICC profile made from i1Profiler? Can I run new Onyx Linearization with the old profile? Seems an invalid approach, or do I need to print new ICC patches and make a new profile?
Thank you, David
On Aug 5, 2013, at 3:16 PM, Terence Wyse <wyseconsul@mac.com> wrote:
David, I don't believe i1P's linearization step is what you would call a "linearization" in the traditional sense (tone curves of some sort)....I believe it's like MonacoPROFILER's linearization function where all it does is look at the tone/colorimetric distribution of the device and then produces an optimized patch set with device values meant to better model the device.....it does NOT modify device behavior like a traditional linearization/calibration curve.....for that you'd need a RIP.
As far as averaging more readings, if you're using an iSis or i1Pro, just build your chart with larger patches....as it scans, it should grab more readings per patch and average them.
Terry
I''ve been doing a lot of Epson GS6000 and Surecolor calibration the past 6 months and a working on an article about it. If you don't mind me asking, why are you linearizing in i1Profiler? Are you calibrating the printer in ONYX? If so, I know how ONYX can be a little funky especially in the black measurements in the linearization phase. I find that I get better readings wish I read patch-by-patch on the linearization step in ONYX with the i1Pro2 device. No so with the iSis or DTP70. With these spot measurements I'm getting a great linearization in the RIP and don't see a need to linearize in i1Profiler. I do like i1pP's profiles over NYX profiles...
As for i1Profiler, you can save as many measurement data sets as you like and drag and drop them on to the Measurement Icon to average them.
But again, I think it's important to get to the route of your problem. Linearization is best done in the RIP, not in i1Profiler, so if you're not getting a good lin in the RIP let's address that.
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
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Two questions: - How do I convert spectro readings to something useful eg. density measurements?
ColorPort is really good for this.
Is there software that spits out a file of such from a CGATS file eg. from i1 or DTP70?
Scripting can be used for this.
- How do I derive a good linearisation distribution from said measurements?
Have you used the "QTR-Linearize-Data.app" app? Fantastic stuff. Scott Martin
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
Two questions: - How do I convert spectro readings to something useful eg. density measurements?
ColorPort is really good for this.
Maybe you could explain some because when I read a wedge via Colorport all I see in the file is spectral measurements: BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT SampleID SAMPLE_NAME CMYK_C CMYK_M CMYK_Y CMYK_K LAB_L LAB_A LAB_B nm400 nm410 nm420 nm430 nm440 nm450 nm460 nm470 nm480 nm490 nm500 nm510 nm520 nm530 nm540 nm550 nm560 nm570 nm580 nm590 nm600 nm610 nm620 nm630 nm640 nm650 nm660 nm670 nm680 nm690 nm700 END_DATA_FORMAT
Is there software that spits out a file of such from a CGATS file eg. from i1 or DTP70?
Scripting can be used for this.
- How do I derive a good linearisation distribution from said measurements?
Have you used the "QTR-Linearize-Data.app" app? Fantastic stuff.
Scott Martin
ColorPort doesn't just save one data format...there are several. Try choosing tab-delimited text....you'll get options for density, dot%, colorimetry, etc. Also, if you're just quickly looking for density or Lab/Lch values, once the measurement is complete, click on measurement info and click the down-arrow to see more options. You can select any of your patches and see the measurement data right there without needing to export the file. Sometimes that's handy if you're just using a lin chart for ink restrictions or similar. Terry On Aug 5, 2013, at 6:50 PM, edmund ronald <edmundronald@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
Two questions: - How do I convert spectro readings to something useful eg. density measurements?
ColorPort is really good for this.
Maybe you could explain some because when I read a wedge via Colorport all I see in the file is spectral measurements: BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT SampleID SAMPLE_NAME CMYK_C CMYK_M CMYK_Y CMYK_K LAB_L LAB_A LAB_B nm400 nm410 nm420 nm430 nm440 nm450 nm460 nm470 nm480 nm490 nm500 nm510 nm520 nm530 nm540 nm550 nm560 nm570 nm580 nm590 nm600 nm610 nm620 nm630 nm640 nm650 nm660 nm670 nm680 nm690 nm700 END_DATA_FORMAT
Is there software that spits out a file of such from a CGATS file eg. from i1 or DTP70?
Scripting can be used for this.
- How do I derive a good linearisation distribution from said measurements?
Have you used the "QTR-Linearize-Data.app" app? Fantastic stuff.
Scott Martin
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Maybe you could explain some because when I read a wedge via Colorport all I see in the file is spectral measurements:
Just to clarify what Terry already said - click on the "i" button in the Measurement Status area while measuring. It will show you all kinds of stuff for every patch - density, LAB, LCH, a visual spectral graph, etc. It's a hidden jewel that lots of users don't realize is there! Wish we had it in i1P. Scott Martin
Edmund, I believe that you are looking for documentation from ISO 5 which defines the standards for calculating density. A simple introduction can be found at http://www.rps-isg.org/DF2008/ISO5Densitometry.pdf. Max Derhak Principal Scientist max.derhak@onyxgfx.com -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users-bounces+max.derhak=onyxgfx.com@lists.apple.com [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+max.derhak=onyxgfx.com@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of edmund ronald Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 6:50 PM To: Scott Martin Cc: Colorsync Users List Subject: Re: i1Profiler linearization On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
Two questions: - How do I convert spectro readings to something useful eg. density measurements?
ColorPort is really good for this.
Maybe you could explain some because when I read a wedge via Colorport all I see in the file is spectral measurements: BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT SampleID SAMPLE_NAME CMYK_C CMYK_M CMYK_Y CMYK_K LAB_L LAB_A LAB_B nm400 nm410 nm420 nm430 nm440 nm450 nm460 nm470 nm480 nm490 nm500 nm510 nm520 nm530 nm540 nm550 nm560 nm570 nm580 nm590 nm600 nm610 nm620 nm630 nm640 nm650 nm660 nm670 nm680 nm690 nm700 END_DATA_FORMAT
Is there software that spits out a file of such from a CGATS file eg. from i1 or DTP70?
Scripting can be used for this.
- How do I derive a good linearisation distribution from said measurements?
Have you used the "QTR-Linearize-Data.app" app? Fantastic stuff.
Scott Martin
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/max.derhak%40onyxgfx... This email sent to max.derhak@onyxgfx.com
participants (5)
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David Wollmann
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edmund ronald
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Max Derhak
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Scott Martin
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Terence Wyse