If anybody on the list is using a GMG RIP to drive a 7900 or 9900, I'd like feedback on a quick test please: 1. Make a CMYK image in Photoshop that covers the width of whatever paper you're using and about 8-10 inches deep. 2. Fill the image with 100 cyan and 80 yellow. 3. Dump the image on the RIP and proof it on GMG Semimatte or Gloss using 8 colour mode and 720x720 resolution, bidirectional preferred, but doesn't really matter. It also doesn't matter if you've calibrated this setup or if you are running to SWOP or FOGRA39L or to a Custom Linear MX. Note that this is a test of 8 colour mode -- not the usual 10 colour mode that the x900 machines use. We cannot get this green (100c 80y) to print without both horizontal and vertical banding. The banding is gentle and looks like the green is moving from cyan to yellow -- more like moiré than mechanical issues you'd get with a head problem. In 10 colour mode our 9900 prints fine -- but that may be because the cyan and yellow ink combination is replaced with mostly pure green. I need to work out if this is a mechanical problem with a 6 month old 9900 or an issue with screening or inks? It'd also be interesting to know if anybody else notices a rather strange effect caused by the vinyl strips in the print catcher -- if you leave that green print face down on the strips for 5 or 10 minutes you'll see that the inks that were in contact with them have gone dark and need a few minutes to recover their expected colour. Never seen that happening in 10 colour or with other colour combinations... Appreciate it if anybody can help with this one and I'm more than happy to reciprocate if any other GMG/Epson users want tests run. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
Martin I just tried this on GMG (CP5.3) on a 9900, 8c 720x720, simulating ISO coated v2 (default GMG profile) on GMG semimatte 250 paper and other than the default noise from the MX4 it's perfectly even. I did have initial banding, but this was because of a clogged yellow printhead, after cleaning it works as expected. I might be a good idea to check printhead allignment in the printer menu and paper advance calibration under advanced printer options in Colorproof. GMG has a downloadable testfile for paper advance calibration somewhere in the support section. Best regards Thomas Holm · Color Management & Workflow Consultant · UGRA PSO Certified Expert (Process Standard Offset) · IDEAlliance G7 Certified Expert · FTA Certified First 4.0 Flexo Implementation Specialist Pixl Aps Bispevej 25, 2. sal DK-2400 København NV Tlf: +45 3296 9014 · th@pixl.dk (mailto:th@pixl.dk) · www.pixl.dk (http://www.pixl.dk/) Tilmeld dig til Pixl nyhedsbrev (https://pixl-aps.clients.ubivox.com/forms/subscribe/list/1269/) Obs: Alle priser nævnt i denne mail er ekskl. moms og forsendelse med mindre andet er nævnt. On Thursday den 21. June 2012 at 13.53, Martin Orpen wrote:
If anybody on the list is using a GMG RIP to drive a 7900 or 9900, I'd like feedback on a quick test please:
1. Make a CMYK image in Photoshop that covers the width of whatever paper you're using and about 8-10 inches deep.
2. Fill the image with 100 cyan and 80 yellow.
3. Dump the image on the RIP and proof it on GMG Semimatte or Gloss using 8 colour mode and 720x720 resolution, bidirectional preferred, but doesn't really matter. It also doesn't matter if you've calibrated this setup or if you are running to SWOP or FOGRA39L or to a Custom Linear MX.
Note that this is a test of 8 colour mode -- not the usual 10 colour mode that the x900 machines use.
We cannot get this green (100c 80y) to print without both horizontal and vertical banding. The banding is gentle and looks like the green is moving from cyan to yellow -- more like moiré than mechanical issues you'd get with a head problem.
In 10 colour mode our 9900 prints fine -- but that may be because the cyan and yellow ink combination is replaced with mostly pure green.
I need to work out if this is a mechanical problem with a 6 month old 9900 or an issue with screening or inks?
It'd also be interesting to know if anybody else notices a rather strange effect caused by the vinyl strips in the print catcher -- if you leave that green print face down on the strips for 5 or 10 minutes you'll see that the inks that were in contact with them have gone dark and need a few minutes to recover their expected colour. Never seen that happening in 10 colour or with other colour combinations...
Appreciate it if anybody can help with this one and I'm more than happy to reciprocate if any other GMG/Epson users want tests run.
-- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com (mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com)) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/pixlaps%40gmail.com
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On 21 Jun 2012, at 15:52, Thomas Holm wrote:
I just tried this on GMG (CP5.3) on a 9900, 8c 720x720, simulating ISO coated v2 (default GMG profile) on GMG semimatte 250 paper and other than the default noise from the MX4 it's perfectly even.
I did have initial banding, but this was because of a clogged yellow printhead, after cleaning it works as expected.
I might be a good idea to check printhead allignment in the printer menu and paper advance calibration under advanced printer options in Colorproof. GMG has a downloadable testfile for paper advance calibration somewhere in the support section.
Thomas Thanks for the confirmation that your 9900 can print this colour without banding. I should have mentioned that this printer has been expertly set up by GMG staffers and Epson engineers. It's the most tested unit in the UK at the moment. Epson have given terrific support. The head has been swapped, the unit stripped down, motors checked, alignments done and re-done. GMG have given terrific support too, software checks, databases rebuilt, paper lengths checked against a german-made and certified metre rule etc etc. It works flawlessly in 10 colour mode but is incapable of printing 100c 80y in 8 colour mode without outputting an unacceptable, banded and patchy piece of junk! I can only conclude that it's a bad device and needs replacing with a new unit. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
Martin, One (obvious?) question - why do you want to use 8 colours instead of 10? It sounds like trying to fix something that isn't broken. Mark On 22/06/2012, at 1:17 AM, Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com> wrote:
On 21 Jun 2012, at 15:52, Thomas Holm wrote:
I just tried this on GMG (CP5.3) on a 9900, 8c 720x720, simulating ISO coated v2 (default GMG profile) on GMG semimatte 250 paper and other than the default noise from the MX4 it's perfectly even.
I did have initial banding, but this was because of a clogged yellow printhead, after cleaning it works as expected.
I might be a good idea to check printhead allignment in the printer menu and paper advance calibration under advanced printer options in Colorproof. GMG has a downloadable testfile for paper advance calibration somewhere in the support section.
Thomas
Thanks for the confirmation that your 9900 can print this colour without banding.
I should have mentioned that this printer has been expertly set up by GMG staffers and Epson engineers. It's the most tested unit in the UK at the moment.
Epson have given terrific support. The head has been swapped, the unit stripped down, motors checked, alignments done and re-done.
GMG have given terrific support too, software checks, databases rebuilt, paper lengths checked against a german-made and certified metre rule etc etc.
It works flawlessly in 10 colour mode but is incapable of printing 100c 80y in 8 colour mode without outputting an unacceptable, banded and patchy piece of junk!
I can only conclude that it's a bad device and needs replacing with a new unit.
-- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mark.stegman%40gmail...
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On 22 Jun 2012, at 00:21, Mark Stegman wrote:
One (obvious?) question - why do you want to use 8 colours instead of 10? It sounds like trying to fix something that isn't broken.
That is a question that I've asked myself repeatedly over the last month… Running 8 colour, 720x720 bidirectional wasn't essential. It was something that I thought would be useful when a client needed plain CMYK contract proofs, fast. And a weekly 10 colour calibration takes at least 4x as long and uses more than twice as much media than 8 colour calibration -- so why not save both time and money by using 8 colour? It seemed like a good idea at the time but it has turned into a massively expensive nightmare :( But there's no turning back now. Once you discover that a piece of equipment that you've purchased isn't working as expected and that other people can achieve things with their identical equipment that you can't… what are you supposed to do? I may only drive during the day, but I'm not going to be happy if I buy a new car and find out six months later that the lights don't work! -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
Intriguing that there is such a BIG difference in consumables and time. Annoying when others can do the same. Mark On 22/06/2012, at 10:06 AM, Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com> wrote:
On 22 Jun 2012, at 00:21, Mark Stegman wrote:
One (obvious?) question - why do you want to use 8 colours instead of 10? It sounds like trying to fix something that isn't broken.
That is a question that I've asked myself repeatedly over the last month…
Running 8 colour, 720x720 bidirectional wasn't essential. It was something that I thought would be useful when a client needed plain CMYK contract proofs, fast.
And a weekly 10 colour calibration takes at least 4x as long and uses more than twice as much media than 8 colour calibration -- so why not save both time and money by using 8 colour?
It seemed like a good idea at the time but it has turned into a massively expensive nightmare :(
But there's no turning back now. Once you discover that a piece of equipment that you've purchased isn't working as expected and that other people can achieve things with their identical equipment that you can't… what are you supposed to do?
I may only drive during the day, but I'm not going to be happy if I buy a new car and find out six months later that the lights don't work!
-- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mark.stegman%40gmail...
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On 22 Jun 2012, at 01:29, Mark Stegman wrote:
Intriguing that there is such a BIG difference in consumables and time.
Not really *that* intriguing :-) The 10 colour calibration requires the output and measurement of 2 orange & green linearisation targets prior to outputting the charts… charts that are twice the size of the 8 colour versions. In an environment where we are printing to gloss, semimatte, semimatte light, matte and newsprint the recalibration (waiting for ink to dry) can eat into valuable production time. Regards -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
Martin, I see. Thank you for bringing me up to speed. Mark On 22/06/2012, at 7:50 PM, Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com> wrote:
On 22 Jun 2012, at 01:29, Mark Stegman wrote:
Intriguing that there is such a BIG difference in consumables and time.
Not really *that* intriguing :-)
The 10 colour calibration requires the output and measurement of 2 orange & green linearisation targets prior to outputting the charts… charts that are twice the size of the 8 colour versions.
In an environment where we are printing to gloss, semimatte, semimatte light, matte and newsprint the recalibration (waiting for ink to dry) can eat into valuable production time.
Regards
-- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mark.stegman%40gmail...
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Martin and everyone, I don't have any issues you mention. No banding and nothing from plastic strips in the catch basket on my 9900 and gmg 5.3 ------ Best Regards, Derek Lambert On Jun 21, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com> wrote:
If anybody on the list is using a GMG RIP to drive a 7900 or 9900, I'd like feedback on a quick test please:
1. Make a CMYK image in Photoshop that covers the width of whatever paper you're using and about 8-10 inches deep.
2. Fill the image with 100 cyan and 80 yellow.
3. Dump the image on the RIP and proof it on GMG Semimatte or Gloss using 8 colour mode and 720x720 resolution, bidirectional preferred, but doesn't really matter. It also doesn't matter if you've calibrated this setup or if you are running to SWOP or FOGRA39L or to a Custom
participants (4)
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Derek Lambert
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Mark Stegman
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Martin Orpen
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Thomas Holm