Prints are over saturated - excessive print contrast - since upgrades?
Friend Dennis Dunbar introduced me to this ColorSync user group. Moab included in this email as well. Problem Overview: Files printed in Lightroom 6 months ago, do not print the same from LR today. Even though print settings are the same, same paper, same .icc profile, same printer, same monitor and same monitor calibrator. Prints are contrasty, especially deep blacks (blocked up) and prints are over saturated. The monitor looks flatter than the print (opposite of normal). Print settings have been triple checked. We have been printing in this workflow for years, we are typically adding more contrast and a bit more saturation to our RAW files. That has all reversed in the last batch of printing, since upgrading to Mavericks and LR5. Possible culprits: -An old monitor? SypderPro calibrator does not alert to any issues, monitor is still able to reach target brightness. And as the file and .xmp settings have not changed, but the resulting print has, it seems to rule out the monitor -Mavericks upgrade? A "black clipping" "bug" has been reported with Mavericks, though this seems to be related to monitors, perhaps not prints. Could ColorSync upgrade in Mavericks have broken things? relating to LR 5? or .icc paper profile? Again, all print settings have not changed, icc profile is set correctly. -LR 5 upgrade? Hard to distinguish LR from Mavericks, as the move from LR 4 to LR5 took place around the same time as Mavericks, hard to pick out which could be the culprit if either. How to troubleshoot? My client and I, both veteran color printers and photographers, are stumped by this over saturated and contrasty printing, completely antithetical to normal expectations (monitor vs print). How can I troubleshoot these "internal" and virtual digital processes, of which I have little to no control over, and no way to bypass, ie colorsync, printer drivers, osX and Lightroom, etc? If there is no "fix" how should we address historical files vs. new files, super confusing and frustrating, surely this cant be right? ANY HELP ON WHERE TO START TROUBLE SHOOTING WOULD BE APPRECIATED. Thanks Russ Russ Widstrand Photographer 503 459 7020 Website • VCF Contact Card • Twitter • LinkedIn • Facebook Equipment: Apple 23" LCD monitor (pretty old, 10yrs) SypderPro 3 monitor calibrator & software (up to date) Mac OS 10.9.3 Mavericks (up to date) Lightroom 5.2 (up to date, though not to 5.4) Epson 3800 printer Moab Entrada Bright Paper & ICC (up to date) LR Print settings Epson Driver Off Enhanced Matte Paper 1440 dpi Moab Entrada Bright.icc Relative Intent 16bit No print sharpening No printer adjustments
Hi Russ, How very tiresome for you. :-) This is what I would do: Get a USB thumb drive (or another spare drive if you have one) and install on it the system you had before, where the prints were as you expected them to be. Boot from that, print a known image, and see if the problem persists. If everything behaves as expected, then install on the test system each component that is different on the new system one by one and that will enable you to see exactly where the problem starts occurring, even if it is a bit slow and tedious. With best wishes, Malcolm. Russ Widstrand wrote:
Friend Dennis Dunbar introduced me to this ColorSync user group. Moab included in this email as well.
Problem Overview: Files printed in Lightroom 6 months ago, do not print the same from LR today. Even though print settings are the same, same paper, same .icc profile, same printer, same monitor and same monitor calibrator. Prints are contrasty, especially deep blacks (blocked up) and prints are over saturated. The monitor looks flatter than the print (opposite of normal). Print settings have been triple checked. We have been printing in this workflow for years, we are typically adding more contrast and a bit more saturation to our RAW files. That has all reversed in the last batch of printing, since upgrading to Mavericks and LR5.
Possible culprits: -An old monitor? SypderPro calibrator does not alert to any issues, monitor is still able to reach target brightness. And as the file and .xmp settings have not changed, but the resulting print has, it seems to rule out the monitor -Mavericks upgrade? A "black clipping" "bug" has been reported with Mavericks, though this seems to be related to monitors, perhaps not prints. Could ColorSync upgrade in Mavericks have broken things? relating to LR 5? or .icc paper profile? Again, all print settings have not changed, icc profile is set correctly. -LR 5 upgrade? Hard to distinguish LR from Mavericks, as the move from LR 4 to LR5 took place around the same time as Mavericks, hard to pick out which could be the culprit if either.
How to troubleshoot? My client and I, both veteran color printers and photographers, are stumped by this over saturated and contrasty printing, completely antithetical to normal expectations (monitor vs print). How can I troubleshoot these "internal" and virtual digital processes, of which I have little to no control over, and no way to bypass, ie colorsync, printer drivers, osX and Lightroom, etc? If there is no "fix" how should we address historical files vs. new files, super confusing and frustrating, surely this cant be right?
ANY HELP ON WHERE TO START TROUBLE SHOOTING WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
Thanks Russ Russ Widstrand Photographer 503 459 7020 Website • VCF Contact Card • Twitter • LinkedIn • Facebook
Equipment: Apple 23" LCD monitor (pretty old, 10yrs) SypderPro 3 monitor calibrator & software (up to date) Mac OS 10.9.3 Mavericks (up to date) Lightroom 5.2 (up to date, though not to 5.4) Epson 3800 printer Moab Entrada Bright Paper & ICC (up to date)
LR Print settings Epson Driver Off Enhanced Matte Paper 1440 dpi Moab Entrada Bright.icc Relative Intent 16bit No print sharpening No printer adjustments _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/malcolm%40pasley.co....
This email sent to malcolm@pasley.co.uk
Try altering the Gamma in the printer driver to 2.2? As far as I can work out (which is not far) Apple changed their gamma from 1.8 to 2.2 (Not monitor gamma, they did that a while ago). This causes problems with the printer drivers (default 1.8). It also depends on whether you are using Colorsync or Epson in your color matching settings. (I am guessing you are using Epson?) The above may be nonsense (others will clarify) but it sorted a 4800 Epson. Good luck Matthew Ward _________________________________ Matthew Ward matthew@matthewwardphotography.com www.matthewwardphotography.com www.imagebasedlighting.co.uk _________________________________
________________________________ From: Russ Widstrand <russ@widstrand.com> To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Cc: Larry N. Olson <larrynolson@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, 30 May 2014, 2:38 Subject: Prints are over saturated - excessive print contrast - since upgrades?
Friend Dennis Dunbar introduced me to this ColorSync user group. Moab included in this email as well.
Problem Overview: Files printed in Lightroom 6 months ago, do not print the same from LR today. Even though print settings are the same, same paper, same .icc profile, same printer, same monitor and same monitor calibrator. Prints are contrasty, especially deep blacks (blocked up) and prints are over saturated. The monitor looks flatter than the print (opposite of normal). Print settings have been triple checked. We have been printing in this workflow for years, we are typically adding more contrast and a bit more saturation to our RAW files. That has all reversed in the last batch of printing, since upgrading to Mavericks and LR5.
Possible culprits: -An old monitor? SypderPro calibrator does not alert to any issues, monitor is still able to reach target brightness. And as the file and .xmp settings have not changed, but the resulting print has, it seems to rule out the monitor -Mavericks upgrade? A "black clipping" "bug" has been reported with Mavericks, though this seems to be related to monitors, perhaps not prints. Could ColorSync upgrade in Mavericks have broken things? relating to LR 5? or .icc paper profile? Again, all print settings have not changed, icc profile is set correctly. -LR 5 upgrade? Hard to distinguish LR from Mavericks, as the move from LR 4 to LR5 took place around the same time as Mavericks, hard to pick out which could be the culprit if either.
How to troubleshoot? My client and I, both veteran color printers and photographers, are stumped by this over saturated and contrasty printing, completely antithetical to normal expectations (monitor vs print). How can I troubleshoot these "internal" and virtual digital processes, of which I have little to no control over, and no way to bypass, ie colorsync, printer drivers, osX and Lightroom, etc? If there is no "fix" how should we address historical files vs. new files, super confusing and frustrating, surely this cant be right?
ANY HELP ON WHERE TO START TROUBLE SHOOTING WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
Thanks Russ Russ Widstrand Photographer 503 459 7020 Website • VCF Contact Card • Twitter • LinkedIn • Facebook
Equipment: Apple 23" LCD monitor (pretty old, 10yrs) SypderPro 3 monitor calibrator & software (up to date) Mac OS 10.9.3 Mavericks (up to date) Lightroom 5.2 (up to date, though not to 5.4) Epson 3800 printer Moab Entrada Bright Paper & ICC (up to date)
LR Print settings Epson Driver Off Enhanced Matte Paper 1440 dpi Moab Entrada Bright.icc Relative Intent 16bit No print sharpening No printer adjustments _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/matthew%40matthewwar...
This email sent to matthew@matthewwardphotography.com
ANY HELP ON WHERE TO START TROUBLE SHOOTING WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
First thing I'd do is download a reference image to print to evaluate. You can find one here: http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip Examine this reference image under a well behaved illuminant (daylight for starters). If the image prints incorrectly, we now know it's not the RGB values. Based on the color appearance it's possible to start looking at the issues. If you can, print out of Lightroom and Photoshop using Application Manages Color. Of course, do a nozzle check to ensure all ink heads are fully firing. Don't worry at this point about display to print matching, especially on this ancient display you use. Let's get a proper appearing print from both applications. They should match if all the proper settings are configured correctly. Then we can worry about the display and soft proof. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
ANY HELP ON WHERE TO START TROUBLE SHOOTING WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
First thing I'd do is download a reference image to print to evaluate. You can find one here: http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip Examine this reference image under a well behaved illuminant (daylight for starters). If the image prints incorrectly, we now know it's not the RGB values. Based on the color appearance it's possible to start looking at the issues. If you can, print out of Lightroom and Photoshop using Application Manages Color. Of course, do a nozzle check to ensure all ink heads are fully firing. Don't worry at this point about display to print matching, especially on this ancient display you use. Let's get a proper appearing print from both applications. They should match if all the proper settings are configured correctly. Then we can worry about the display and soft proof. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
participants (4)
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Andrew Rodney
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Malcolm Pasley
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matthew ward
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Russ Widstrand