Apple laptop users, This sort of discussion is a bit of an indulgence but I have been thinking about this for quite a while and the forum is quiet at the moment. It also has a high proportion of serious users and I would like to know what they think about current the range of laptops on offer from Apple. Believe it to not but I still have a working 17" laptop that is 9 years old. It has no battery (replaced twice) and a 'new' hard drive and maximum RAM. Yes, the 'rubber bands' are a little tired, it takes a while to boot up, doesn't support current versions of most applications (not necessarily a bad thing) and won't run any version of OS X past 10.6.8. (which also has its advantages). I can't use it for serious image editing anymore but I can use it for other things. including the use of 'redundant' colour management software. The one thing I really love about this laptop is the screen size. As far as I'm concerned it is at the maximum but also the optimum size for a portable image editing device. Any larger and you may as well go and pack a ghetto blaster on your shoulder for music as you will be driving a truck anyway. It's just too cumbersome. At 17 inches it is still portable without being unmanageable and portability is the prime utility and benefit of a laptop. So I found it sad as well as surprising when it was dropped from the line of laptops on offer some years ago. The rest of my family have 13 and 15 inch laptops and for their purposes they're just great as they most;y focussed on social media and all that goes with it. However, for the purposes of professional photoimaging I find they're just too small, especially if you take one on the road and it's the only thing you have to work with. Even the 15" with the retina display falls short in my book. If you add the ever increasing resolution of cameras, even at the prosumer end, as well as the advent of ultra-high definition displays then I think there is a case for a professional standard photoimaging laptop that matches these capabilities and I can't see one in the current range on offer or even on the horizon. In short, I would like Apple to 'resurrect' the 17" laptop with a monitor that matches the resolution of FHD, or even UHD resolutions, and specifications that complement it so that photographers and other imaging professionals have a portable device that matches their needs and aspirations. All those in favour say "Aye". Anyone with something to offer on 'complementary' specifications, please contribute. Regards, Mark Stegman
Photo editing on a laptop is OK for elementary first-around adjustments, but beyond that a waste of time unless you are very adept at colour managing the display and maintaining the angle of vision between your face and display exactly right all the time; precious few would have this capability. If Apple discontinued the 17" models it most likely means there is insufficient demand to justify the overhead involved in design, production, marketing and support. Model upgrades are non-trivial undertakings, and the world is increasingly moving to "smaller is better". One can always wish for anything, but at some point the reality of the market takes hold. Mark From: Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com> To: colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 3:56 AM Subject: Apple laptops Apple laptop users, This sort of discussion is a bit of an indulgence but I have been thinking about this for quite a while and the forum is quiet at the moment. It also has a high proportion of serious users and I would like to know what they think about current the range of laptops on offer from Apple. Believe it to not but I still have a working 17" laptop that is 9 years old. It has no battery (replaced twice) and a 'new' hard drive and maximum RAM. Yes, the 'rubber bands' are a little tired, it takes a while to boot up, doesn't support current versions of most applications (not necessarily a bad thing) and won't run any version of OS X past 10.6.8. (which also has its advantages). I can't use it for serious image editing anymore but I can use it for other things. including the use of 'redundant' colour management software. The one thing I really love about this laptop is the screen size. As far as I'm concerned it is at the maximum but also the optimum size for a portable image editing device. Any larger and you may as well go and pack a ghetto blaster on your shoulder for music as you will be driving a truck anyway. It's just too cumbersome. At 17 inches it is still portable without being unmanageable and portability is the prime utility and benefit of a laptop. So I found it sad as well as surprising when it was dropped from the line of laptops on offer some years ago. The rest of my family have 13 and 15 inch laptops and for their purposes they're just great as they most;y focussed on social media and all that goes with it. However, for the purposes of professional photoimaging I find they're just too small, especially if you take one on the road and it's the only thing you have to work with. Even the 15" with the retina display falls short in my book. If you add the ever increasing resolution of cameras, even at the prosumer end, as well as the advent of ultra-high definition displays then I think there is a case for a professional standard photoimaging laptop that matches these capabilities and I can't see one in the current range on offer or even on the horizon. In short, I would like Apple to 'resurrect' the 17" laptop with a monitor that matches the resolution of FHD, or even UHD resolutions, and specifications that complement it so that photographers and other imaging professionals have a portable device that matches their needs and aspirations. All those in favour say "Aye". Anyone with something to offer on 'complementary' specifications, please contribute. Regards, Mark Stegman _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mgsegal%40rogers.com This email sent to mgsegal@rogers.com
Mark, I hear what your saying and it echoes the practical realist in me that recognises the constraints of the market but I would like to test it all the same. I didn't really start this conversation looking for a reality check. I've to that already. I am quite sympathetic to your perspective on quality control. I gave up trying to profile my laptop display for the same reasons you cite. To me the biggest variable in this respect is the viewing conditions so contract colour management is not going to make or break it. I've seen discussions on this forum about profile phones! Speaking of which, I do question your take on things 'getting smaller' as the optimum size seems to roam all over the pace depending on the utility. Phones get bigger while tablets get smaller. In the professional photoimaging world there is still an attachment to printed things and some of these are getting VERY big. It might be a 'niche' market but wide format printing is just about the only area of significant growth in printing at the moment and, unlike the past, a lot of these larger-than-life prints are viewed 'up close and personal' where the 'ultra' high definition of some cameras can be really appreciated. iPhone 6 images are on billboards everywhere (and not too close to see the detail) but the footnote says they've been 'optimised' for for display (or words to that effect) and no doubt, in a studio with a colour managed environment and some post processing. To be more realistic take the landscape photographer that travels through some of the more remote regions. They need portability. Are they going to wait until they get home to their colour managed office to start viewing and editing? Apart from that the extra 'real estate' gives you enough room for the tools and palettes of your applications. It might be 'pie in the sky' but from my point of view there is a gap in the market and a high quality laptop that is not totally oriented around social media and happy snaps is what's missing. Granted, there may not be enough people out there that would pay for it to make it a viable proposition. That's what I'm trying to find out. Mark On 15 July 2015 at 22:02, MARK SEGAL <mgsegal@rogers.com> wrote:
Photo editing on a laptop is OK for elementary first-around adjustments, but beyond that a waste of time unless you are very adept at colour managing the display and maintaining the angle of vision between your face and display exactly right all the time; precious few would have this capability. If Apple discontinued the 17" models it most likely means there is insufficient demand to justify the overhead involved in design, production, marketing and support. Model upgrades are non-trivial undertakings, and the world is increasingly moving to "smaller is better". One can always wish for anything, but at some point the reality of the market takes hold.
Mark
------------------------------ *From:* Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com> *To:* colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2015 3:56 AM *Subject:* Apple laptops
Apple laptop users,
This sort of discussion is a bit of an indulgence but I have been thinking about this for quite a while and the forum is quiet at the moment. It also has a high proportion of serious users and I would like to know what they think about current the range of laptops on offer from Apple.
Believe it to not but I still have a working 17" laptop that is 9 years old. It has no battery (replaced twice) and a 'new' hard drive and maximum RAM. Yes, the 'rubber bands' are a little tired, it takes a while to boot up, doesn't support current versions of most applications (not necessarily a bad thing) and won't run any version of OS X past 10.6.8. (which also has its advantages). I can't use it for serious image editing anymore but I can use it for other things. including the use of 'redundant' colour management software.
The one thing I really love about this laptop is the screen size. As far as I'm concerned it is at the maximum but also the optimum size for a portable image editing device. Any larger and you may as well go and pack a ghetto blaster on your shoulder for music as you will be driving a truck anyway. It's just too cumbersome. At 17 inches it is still portable without being unmanageable and portability is the prime utility and benefit of a laptop.
So I found it sad as well as surprising when it was dropped from the line of laptops on offer some years ago. The rest of my family have 13 and 15 inch laptops and for their purposes they're just great as they most;y focussed on social media and all that goes with it. However, for the purposes of professional photoimaging I find they're just too small, especially if you take one on the road and it's the only thing you have to work with. Even the 15" with the retina display falls short in my book. If you add the ever increasing resolution of cameras, even at the prosumer end, as well as the advent of ultra-high definition displays then I think there is a case for a professional standard photoimaging laptop that matches these capabilities and I can't see one in the current range on offer or even on the horizon.
In short, I would like Apple to 'resurrect' the 17" laptop with a monitor that matches the resolution of FHD, or even UHD resolutions, and specifications that complement it so that photographers and other imaging professionals have a portable device that matches their needs and aspirations.
All those in favour say "Aye".
Anyone with something to offer on 'complementary' specifications, please contribute.
Regards,
Mark Stegman _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mgsegal%40rogers.com
This email sent to mgsegal@rogers.com
Your last para is my basic point. Testing the proposition on this list probably wouldn't impact any conclusions from Apple's own previous market research, so not clear to me where you hope to take this, nice of an idea as it may be. Mark From: Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com> To: MARK SEGAL <mgsegal@rogers.com> Cc: colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 9:51 AM Subject: Re: Apple laptops Mark, I hear what your saying and it echoes the practical realist in me that recognises the constraints of the market but I would like to test it all the same. I didn't really start this conversation looking for a reality check. I've to that already. I am quite sympathetic to your perspective on quality control. I gave up trying to profile my laptop display for the same reasons you cite. To me the biggest variable in this respect is the viewing conditions so contract colour management is not going to make or break it. I've seen discussions on this forum about profile phones! Speaking of which, I do question your take on things 'getting smaller' as the optimum size seems to roam all over the pace depending on the utility. Phones get bigger while tablets get smaller. In the professional photoimaging world there is still an attachment to printed things and some of these are getting VERY big. It might be a 'niche' market but wide format printing is just about the only area of significant growth in printing at the moment and, unlike the past, a lot of these larger-than-life prints are viewed 'up close and personal' where the 'ultra' high definition of some cameras can be really appreciated. iPhone 6 images are on billboards everywhere (and not too close to see the detail) but the footnote says they've been 'optimised' for for display (or words to that effect) and no doubt, in a studio with a colour managed environment and some post processing. To be more realistic take the landscape photographer that travels through some of the more remote regions. They need portability. Are they going to wait until they get home to their colour managed office to start viewing and editing? Apart from that the extra 'real estate' gives you enough room for the tools and palettes of your applications. It might be 'pie in the sky' but from my point of view there is a gap in the market and a high quality laptop that is not totally oriented around social media and happy snaps is what's missing. Granted, there may not be enough people out there that would pay for it to make it a viable proposition. That's what I'm trying to find out. Mark On 15 July 2015 at 22:02, MARK SEGAL <mgsegal@rogers.com> wrote: Photo editing on a laptop is OK for elementary first-around adjustments, but beyond that a waste of time unless you are very adept at colour managing the display and maintaining the angle of vision between your face and display exactly right all the time; precious few would have this capability. If Apple discontinued the 17" models it most likely means there is insufficient demand to justify the overhead involved in design, production, marketing and support. Model upgrades are non-trivial undertakings, and the world is increasingly moving to "smaller is better". One can always wish for anything, but at some point the reality of the market takes hold. Mark From: Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com> To: colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2015 3:56 AM Subject: Apple laptops Apple laptop users, This sort of discussion is a bit of an indulgence but I have been thinking about this for quite a while and the forum is quiet at the moment. It also has a high proportion of serious users and I would like to know what they think about current the range of laptops on offer from Apple. Believe it to not but I still have a working 17" laptop that is 9 years old. It has no battery (replaced twice) and a 'new' hard drive and maximum RAM. Yes, the 'rubber bands' are a little tired, it takes a while to boot up, doesn't support current versions of most applications (not necessarily a bad thing) and won't run any version of OS X past 10.6.8. (which also has its advantages). I can't use it for serious image editing anymore but I can use it for other things. including the use of 'redundant' colour management software. The one thing I really love about this laptop is the screen size. As far as I'm concerned it is at the maximum but also the optimum size for a portable image editing device. Any larger and you may as well go and pack a ghetto blaster on your shoulder for music as you will be driving a truck anyway. It's just too cumbersome. At 17 inches it is still portable without being unmanageable and portability is the prime utility and benefit of a laptop. So I found it sad as well as surprising when it was dropped from the line of laptops on offer some years ago. The rest of my family have 13 and 15 inch laptops and for their purposes they're just great as they most;y focussed on social media and all that goes with it. However, for the purposes of professional photoimaging I find they're just too small, especially if you take one on the road and it's the only thing you have to work with. Even the 15" with the retina display falls short in my book. If you add the ever increasing resolution of cameras, even at the prosumer end, as well as the advent of ultra-high definition displays then I think there is a case for a professional standard photoimaging laptop that matches these capabilities and I can't see one in the current range on offer or even on the horizon. In short, I would like Apple to 'resurrect' the 17" laptop with a monitor that matches the resolution of FHD, or even UHD resolutions, and specifications that complement it so that photographers and other imaging professionals have a portable device that matches their needs and aspirations. All those in favour say "Aye". Anyone with something to offer on 'complementary' specifications, please contribute. Regards, Mark Stegman _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mgsegal%40rogers.com This email sent to mgsegal@rogers.com
while i can’t imagine doing color work on a laptop, i equally cringe at the thought of prepress related work on smaller than 17". i bought my 17" to travel w/ product; having to downsize to 15” would be a nuisance. i gather when the retina models were introduced the cost/reliability of a 17” display was prohibitive. in the back my of my mind i daily expect to see announcement of a 17” retina model—perhaps so drastically redesigned as what we saw w/ the mac pro & this was a very dark horse. the apple pro segment is undoubtedly smallest, but i think it safe to say that apple never [totally] abandons its pro users.
On Jul 15, 2015, at 3:56 AM, Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com> wrote:
Apple laptop users,
This sort of discussion is a bit of an indulgence but I have been thinking about this for quite a while and the forum is quiet at the moment. It also has a high proportion of serious users and I would like to know what they think about current the range of laptops on offer from Apple.
Believe it to not but I still have a working 17" laptop that is 9 years old. It has no battery (replaced twice) and a 'new' hard drive and maximum RAM. Yes, the 'rubber bands' are a little tired, it takes a while to boot up, doesn't support current versions of most applications (not necessarily a bad thing) and won't run any version of OS X past 10.6.8. (which also has its advantages). I can't use it for serious image editing anymore but I can use it for other things. including the use of 'redundant' colour management software.
The one thing I really love about this laptop is the screen size. As far as I'm concerned it is at the maximum but also the optimum size for a portable image editing device. Any larger and you may as well go and pack a ghetto blaster on your shoulder for music as you will be driving a truck anyway. It's just too cumbersome. At 17 inches it is still portable without being unmanageable and portability is the prime utility and benefit of a laptop.
So I found it sad as well as surprising when it was dropped from the line of laptops on offer some years ago. The rest of my family have 13 and 15 inch laptops and for their purposes they're just great as they most;y focussed on social media and all that goes with it. However, for the purposes of professional photoimaging I find they're just too small, especially if you take one on the road and it's the only thing you have to work with. Even the 15" with the retina display falls short in my book. If you add the ever increasing resolution of cameras, even at the prosumer end, as well as the advent of ultra-high definition displays then I think there is a case for a professional standard photoimaging laptop that matches these capabilities and I can't see one in the current range on offer or even on the horizon.
In short, I would like Apple to 'resurrect' the 17" laptop with a monitor that matches the resolution of FHD, or even UHD resolutions, and specifications that complement it so that photographers and other imaging professionals have a portable device that matches their needs and aspirations.
All those in favour say "Aye".
Anyone with something to offer on 'complementary' specifications, please contribute.
Regards,
Mark Stegman _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/etaffel%40me.com
This email sent to etaffel@me.com
Currently using two MacBook Pro 17 inch non-glare displays, version 8,3. My daughter is using the 4,1 with same display. The 4,1 can only go to 6 GB ram, and I do have 16 GB ram in my two 8,3’s, I have attached to both 8,3’s displays, 27” NEC Multisync PA 27’s. A 271 on one mac, and a 272 on the other mac. MacBook Pro display is not valid for serious digital imaging applications. Guess I demand nothing less the 17 inch displays. I cannot fathom using a 15 inch display. 17 inch display is comfortable for me. Retina display or not, I must have a non-glare display. I wonder what others thinks of glare displays. I also have been thinking about this issue for some time. I don’t care for the alternative! ! ! Cheers, David
On Jul 15, 2015, at 7:00 AM, edward taffel <etaffel@me.com> wrote:
while i can’t imagine doing color work on a laptop, i equally cringe at the thought of prepress related work on smaller than 17". i bought my 17" to travel w/ product; having to downsize to 15” would be a nuisance.
i gather when the retina models were introduced the cost/reliability of a 17” display was prohibitive. in the back my of my mind i daily expect to see announcement of a 17” retina model—perhaps so drastically redesigned as what we saw w/ the mac pro & this was a very dark horse. the apple pro segment is undoubtedly smallest, but i think it safe to say that apple never [totally] abandons its pro users.
On Jul 15, 2015, at 3:56 AM, Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com <mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>> wrote:
Apple laptop users,
This sort of discussion is a bit of an indulgence but I have been thinking about this for quite a while and the forum is quiet at the moment. It also has a high proportion of serious users and I would like to know what they think about current the range of laptops on offer from Apple.
Believe it to not but I still have a working 17" laptop that is 9 years old. It has no battery (replaced twice) and a 'new' hard drive and maximum RAM. Yes, the 'rubber bands' are a little tired, it takes a while to boot up, doesn't support current versions of most applications (not necessarily a bad thing) and won't run any version of OS X past 10.6.8. (which also has its advantages). I can't use it for serious image editing anymore but I can use it for other things. including the use of 'redundant' colour management software.
The one thing I really love about this laptop is the screen size. As far as I'm concerned it is at the maximum but also the optimum size for a portable image editing device. Any larger and you may as well go and pack a ghetto blaster on your shoulder for music as you will be driving a truck anyway. It's just too cumbersome. At 17 inches it is still portable without being unmanageable and portability is the prime utility and benefit of a laptop.
So I found it sad as well as surprising when it was dropped from the line of laptops on offer some years ago. The rest of my family have 13 and 15 inch laptops and for their purposes they're just great as they most;y focussed on social media and all that goes with it. However, for the purposes of professional photoimaging I find they're just too small, especially if you take one on the road and it's the only thing you have to work with. Even the 15" with the retina display falls short in my book. If you add the ever increasing resolution of cameras, even at the prosumer end, as well as the advent of ultra-high definition displays then I think there is a case for a professional standard photoimaging laptop that matches these capabilities and I can't see one in the current range on offer or even on the horizon.
In short, I would like Apple to 'resurrect' the 17" laptop with a monitor that matches the resolution of FHD, or even UHD resolutions, and specifications that complement it so that photographers and other imaging professionals have a portable device that matches their needs and aspirations.
All those in favour say "Aye".
Anyone with something to offer on 'complementary' specifications, please contribute.
Regards,
Mark Stegman _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/etaffel%40me.com <https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/etaffel%40me.com>
This email sent to etaffel@me.com <mailto:etaffel@me.com>
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/spinnakerphotoimagin... <https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/spinnakerphotoimagingcenter%40dnmillerphoto.com>
This email sent to spinnakerphotoimagingcenter@dnmillerphoto.com <mailto:spinnakerphotoimagingcenter@dnmillerphoto.com>
On Jul 15, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center <SpinnakerPhotoImagingCenter@dnmillerphoto.com> wrote:
Retina display or not, I must have a non-glare display. I wonder what others thinks of glare displays.
Like you, I hook up a great external reference display to my MBP (NEC PA272W). However, on the road or working on the MacBook alone, no color critical work, I really like the Retina display and don't find the glossy screen a problem. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Jul 15, 2015, at 6:57 PM, Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center <spinnakerphotoimagingcenter@dnmillerphoto.com> wrote:
Guess I demand nothing less the 17 inch displays. I cannot fathom using a 15 inch display.
The 17" displays are lovely to look at, but the computers themselves are much more "luggable" than portable. Even the 13" is cumbersome for situations where you're hauling stuff around. My laptop is a 13" MacBook Air that I use for anything portable; anything serious I leave for the iMac. The MacBook Air's display is challenging / borderline / unsuited for critical qualitative work, but it's more than ample for any sort of quantitative workflow. If you're doing everything by the numbers and you're confident that you don't need to actually see the full results to know that they're there, it's a great tool. And, I must note...it is possible to get a really, really impressive profile even of a small laptop display using Argyll and a colorimeter with a correction matrix made from a spectrometer. I don't hesitate to do lots of non-color-critical stuff on the laptop, including sharpening. And if it's going to the Web rather than print, the laptop is serious overkill -- you're looking at single-digit percentages of Internet-connected devices with displays as accurate as a truly well-profiled laptop, even with its angle-dependent shifts. Similarly, I'd unhesitatingly put my laptop with its profile up against basically any consumer printer with vendor-supplied color management; it's only when I'm working on stuff "for real" that I pay attention to it. b&
participants (6)
-
Andrew Rodney
-
Ben Goren
-
edward taffel
-
MARK SEGAL
-
Mark Stegman
-
Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center