Ernst, I was quite pleased to find your database. I’m glad I now know that the Enhanced Matte Paper was originally called Archival Matte Paper and that Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte is the cut sheet version of Enhanced Matte Paper. That’s a tough act to follow. Since most of my applications are intended for proofing, I don’t really care that the OB in the paper decays over time, due to the factors you mentioned, but it is a “problem”. I, personally, would never print images on a substrate containing FWA to put on the walls of my living room – who does that? Your last comments about “Viewing conditions” are well taken. The majority of clients I’ve worked with, in the past, don’t view their jobs under any kind of controlled lighting, and would never care to take the time to even step outside their building to use “sunlight” or “daylight” which, in my opinion, would be better than “Cool white” or “Warm white” or whatever else “office lighting”. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond 😊 / Roger From: Ernst Dinkla <info@pigment-print.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:02 AM To: graxx@videotron.ca Cc: Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com>; 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Epson Enhanced Matte Roger, M0. Tungsten light source that does not go deep into UV. i1Share spectral measurements and the Lab data taken from that app too. 380 to 730 NM readings. With an archive manager you can open SpectrumViz and get to the Data files. The goal of SpectrumViz was identifying whether there were OBAs used in the papers and where in the paper structure. On the web page is an explanation which conclusions can be made of the results. I think the app contributed to the reduced use of OBAs in inkjet art papers and to the use of better normal whitening agents (high L with a smooth continuous spectral plot) and in some cases to better fluorescent brightening agents (on longevity) in said papers. Meanwhile with improved pigment inkjet inks the main fading/color constancy issues are in the substrates printed on. Aardenburg-Imaging.com has excellent longevity testing done for the same purpose. On inkjet inks and the paper whites where Wilhelm-Research has not contributed much on the last aspect. AFAIK you will find paper white measurements there done more according your methodology. Look in the test result PDFs. Interesting observation on OBA/TiO2 containing paper and paper white color shifts due to dark storage there too. That next to articles on gas fading and light induced fading. Sometimes manufacturers react in another way on bad fade test reports: Your Enhanced Matte Paper was originally called Archival Matte Paper. But yellowed terribly over time. The name changed several years ago. Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte, is the cut sheet version of Enhanced Matte Paper. it is not my territory in the graphic arts but this (new) emphasis on matching proofing papers with OBA containing production stock is ignoring the fact that the consumer viewing conditions are as uncertain as they used to be in the past. This type of profiling becomes almost an academic effort and probably stimulates the use of OBAs which will only result in less color constancy in the real world. i thought it had a purpose for outdoor applications but even there I see some practical issues. I know as long as it satisfies the customer, ISO standards etc ............ Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla Dinkla Grafische Techniek Quad, piëzografie, giclée www.pigment-print.com <http://www.pigment-print.com> On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 1:28 AM Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > wrote: Found the Lab data for the Enhanced Matte 190! Had to leave the mouse over the media name, for the yellow "tab" information to appear. But... only CIE Lab 96.03 0.6 -2.1? I guess the instrument used to make the measurement, an X-Rite Eye One Basic, means that this is an "M0" or "Unfiltered UV" or "Legacy" measurement. So, using an M1 instrument, the b* value would a little more "negative". But by how much? The Doubleweight Matte 160 is CIE Lab 93.3 1.9 -4.4, a little "better" for my purpose, despite the lower ISO Brightness number? If I'm to stick with Epson, my "best" bet is with Presentation Matte 172, at CIE Lab 94.6 2.2 -5.8. Best / Roger -----Original Message----- From: Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com <mailto:martin@idea-digital.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 5:50 PM To: graxx@videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca> Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com <http://lists.apple.com> ' List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Epson Enhanced Matte
On 18 Jun 2019, at 21:57, Roger Breton via colorsync-users <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > wrote:
Hate to ask but would anyone have “real” CIE Lab measurements (farbmessung) for this paper? Thanks for your patience and help.
Roger Ernst Dinkla’s SpectrumViz has measurements for loads of inkjet papers: <http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm> Requires JRE to run. Cheers -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> ) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/ernst.dinkla%40gmail... This email sent to ernst.dinkla@gmail.com <mailto:ernst.dinkla@gmail.com>
While I understand that proof printing for other printing processes does not require long term color constancy in media I think it might be interesting that Aardenburg-Imaging.com, Mark McCormick, has added another testing method for media for a less known paper white longevity issue. I also wonder whether it affects long term stocking of unprinted media in your business. The more as most of your papers are in that class of RC papers + OBAs + most likely TiO2 whitening agent. https://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/breaking-news-lilis/ Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla Grafische Techniek Quad, piëzografie, giclée www.pigment-print.com On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 2:28 PM Roger Breton via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
Ernst,
I was quite pleased to find your database.
I’m glad I now know that the Enhanced Matte Paper was originally called Archival Matte Paper and that Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte is the cut sheet version of Enhanced Matte Paper. That’s a tough act to follow. Since most of my applications are intended for proofing, I don’t really care that the OB in the paper decays over time, due to the factors you mentioned, but it is a “problem”. I, personally, would never print images on a substrate containing FWA to put on the walls of my living room – who does that?
Your last comments about “Viewing conditions” are well taken. The majority of clients I’ve worked with, in the past, don’t view their jobs under any kind of controlled lighting, and would never care to take the time to even step outside their building to use “sunlight” or “daylight” which, in my opinion, would be better than “Cool white” or “Warm white” or whatever else “office lighting”.
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond 😊
/ Roger
From: Ernst Dinkla <info@pigment-print.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 5:02 AM To: graxx@videotron.ca Cc: Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com>; 'colorsync-users? lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Epson Enhanced Matte
Roger,
M0. Tungsten light source that does not go deep into UV. i1Share spectral measurements and the Lab data taken from that app too.
380 to 730 NM readings. With an archive manager you can open SpectrumViz and get to the Data files.
The goal of SpectrumViz was identifying whether there were OBAs used in the papers and where in the paper structure. On the web page is an explanation which conclusions can be made of the results. I think the app contributed to the reduced use of OBAs in inkjet art papers and to the use of better normal whitening agents (high L with a smooth continuous spectral plot) and in some cases to better fluorescent brightening agents (on longevity) in said papers. Meanwhile with improved pigment inkjet inks the main fading/color constancy issues are in the substrates printed on.
Aardenburg-Imaging.com has excellent longevity testing done for the same purpose. On inkjet inks and the paper whites where Wilhelm-Research has not contributed much on the last aspect. AFAIK you will find paper white measurements there done more according your methodology. Look in the test result PDFs. Interesting observation on OBA/TiO2 containing paper and paper white color shifts due to dark storage there too. That next to articles on gas fading and light induced fading.
Sometimes manufacturers react in another way on bad fade test reports: Your Enhanced Matte Paper was originally called Archival Matte Paper. But yellowed terribly over time. The name changed several years ago. Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte, is the cut sheet version of Enhanced Matte Paper.
it is not my territory in the graphic arts but this (new) emphasis on matching proofing papers with OBA containing production stock is ignoring the fact that the consumer viewing conditions are as uncertain as they used to be in the past. This type of profiling becomes almost an academic effort and probably stimulates the use of OBAs which will only result in less color constancy in the real world. i thought it had a purpose for outdoor applications but even there I see some practical issues. I know as long as it satisfies the customer, ISO standards etc ............
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla
Dinkla Grafische Techniek Quad, piëzografie, giclée www.pigment-print.com <http://www.pigment-print.com>
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 1:28 AM Roger Breton via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>
wrote:
Found the Lab data for the Enhanced Matte 190! Had to leave the mouse over the media name, for the yellow "tab" information to appear. But... only CIE Lab 96.03 0.6 -2.1?
I guess the instrument used to make the measurement, an X-Rite Eye One Basic, means that this is an "M0" or "Unfiltered UV" or "Legacy" measurement. So, using an M1 instrument, the b* value would a little more "negative". But by how much?
The Doubleweight Matte 160 is CIE Lab 93.3 1.9 -4.4, a little "better" for my purpose, despite the lower ISO Brightness number? If I'm to stick with Epson, my "best" bet is with Presentation Matte 172, at CIE Lab 94.6 2.2 -5.8.
Best / Roger
-----Original Message----- From: Martin Orpen <martin@idea-digital.com <mailto: martin@idea-digital.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 5:50 PM To: graxx@videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca> Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com <http://lists.apple.com> ' List < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: Epson Enhanced Matte
On 18 Jun 2019, at 21:57, Roger Breton via colorsync-users < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> wrote:
Hate to ask but would anyone have “real” CIE Lab measurements (farbmessung) for this paper? Thanks for your patience and help.
Roger
Ernst Dinkla’s SpectrumViz has measurements for loads of inkjet papers:
<http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm>
Requires JRE to run.
Cheers
-- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> ) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/ernst.dinkla%40gmail...
This email sent to ernst.dinkla@gmail.com <mailto:ernst.dinkla@gmail.com>
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This email sent to ernst.dinkla@gmail.com
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