i1Profiler display measurements
Hi list, I have not had much luck finding the measured display colorimetry using i1Profiler? The software allow creating wonderful monitor profiles but the data seems nowhere to be found. I have hunted all the directories I could think of to no avail. The data seems to be incorporated into the resulting monitor profile but I would not know how to extract it. Best / Roger
From: Roger Breton
I have not had much luck finding the measured display colorimetry using i1Profiler?
The software allow creating wonderful monitor profiles but the data seems nowhere to be found.
I have hunted all the directories I could think of to no avail.
The data seems to be incorporated into the resulting monitor profile but I would not know how to extract it.
You can extract the data from an i1Profiler monitor profile by starting i1Profiler and dropping an existing i1P display profile onto the measurement box. The "Save" button allows you to save the data out. Unfortunately the only supported format is dmxf. I see that PatchTool says it can read dmxf data. The colorimetry used is the mysterious "XRitePrismDefault." What that is, I have no idea. Neither does Google for that matter.
Ethan, Roger, Warning: I am closely involved with PatchTool development ;-) Yes, PatchTool can open the dxmf file. It can also extract the data from the profile, if present and if the tag is recognized of course (!), with the aptly named "Extract Data from Profile" tool (this tool also works in demo mode without purchasing BTW). PatchTool will also show you the wpt tag. However, this is non-normalized emission data. In other words, the WhitePoint is not normalized to Y=100 and the display WhitePoint will likely not match a standard Illuminant. When you open the cxf file, PatchTool will ask you to select an Illuminant, because it expects a reference Illuminant, which is always required for reflectance measurement. If your display is nearly spot-on a standard Illuminant (i.e. D50, D65), this selection makes sense. In most cases it does not. You can however export the display cxf XYZ data from PatchTool in a text file and process it yourself. This is similar to RAW display data files generated by PatchTool, which are also generated for external processing by the user (which are also warned it should not be opened in PatchTool). Note 1: When a display measurement is made with PatchTool Display-Reader AND you measure your Display WhitePoint, the program can provide both a RAW data file AND a processed data file. The RAW file is for those who want absolute measurements, and is equivalent to the data found in a display profile; it cannot be opened in PatchTool, as mentioned previously. The processed file takes the RAW measurements and converts them (Rel-Col) between the measured display White-Point (which is whatever CCT) and a standard Illuminant. Because this processed data is converted to a standard Illuminant, it makes sense to open it in PatchTool (or any other program which expects reflectance data). Danny Pascale www.babelcolor.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Hansen" <ehansen@drycreekphoto.com> To: "'Roger Breton'" <graxx@videotron.ca>; "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:32 PM Subject: RE: i1Profiler display measurements
From: Roger Breton
I have not had much luck finding the measured display colorimetry using i1Profiler?
The software allow creating wonderful monitor profiles but the data seems nowhere to be found.
I have hunted all the directories I could think of to no avail.
The data seems to be incorporated into the resulting monitor profile but I would not know how to extract it.
You can extract the data from an i1Profiler monitor profile by starting i1Profiler and dropping an existing i1P display profile onto the measurement box. The "Save" button allows you to save the data out. Unfortunately the only supported format is dmxf. I see that PatchTool says it can read dmxf data.
The colorimetry used is the mysterious "XRitePrismDefault." What that is, I have no idea. Neither does Google for that matter.
From:
However, this is non-normalized emission data. In other words, the WhitePoint is not normalized to Y=100 and the display WhitePoint will likely not match a standard Illuminant.
When you open the cxf file, PatchTool will ask you to select an Illuminant, because it expects a reference Illuminant, which is always required for reflectance measurement. If your display is nearly spot-on a standard Illuminant (i.e. D50, D65), this selection makes sense. In most cases it does not.
Danny, Thank you for helping clear up matters! Can the Display-Reader module be used to measure the whitepoint for display measurement data? I'm thinking along the lines of showing a white patch, measuring it, and using that as the whitepoint value.
Ethan, "Can the Display-Reader module be used to measure the whitepoint for display measurement data? I'm thinking along the lines of showing a white patch, measuring it, and using that as the whitepoint value." Yes. Here is a screenshot of the tool: http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/screen_shots/PatchTool_Display-Reader.h... The export dialog: http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/screen_shots/PatchTool_Display-Reader_C... You can contact me offlist if you prefer. Danny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Hansen" <ehansen@drycreekphoto.com> To: "'dpascale'" <dpascale@babelcolor.com>; "'Roger Breton'" <graxx@videotron.ca>; "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 4:15 PM Subject: RE: i1Profiler display measurements
From:
However, this is non-normalized emission data. In other words, the WhitePoint is not normalized to Y=100 and the display WhitePoint will likely not match a standard Illuminant.
When you open the cxf file, PatchTool will ask you to select an Illuminant, because it expects a reference Illuminant, which is always required for reflectance measurement. If your display is nearly spot-on a standard Illuminant (i.e. D50, D65), this selection makes sense. In most cases it does not.
Danny,
Thank you for helping clear up matters! Can the Display-Reader module be used to measure the whitepoint for display measurement data? I'm thinking along the lines of showing a white patch, measuring it, and using that as the whitepoint value.
Roger, Ethan, Danny, Far be it from me to try and steal any of Danny's thunder but I would like to make a contribution. Lifting the bonnet on these things is NOT my area of expertise but, as I understand it the dmxf file is actually a CxF3 file (which is based on XML). If you change the extension to .xml you can open it in any browser, X-Code or even a text editor. The header reads... <cc:CxF xmlns:cc="http://colorexchangeformat.com/CxF3-core" xmlns:xsi=" http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"> This also applies to the Patch Sets and the Profile Settings. I haven't explored all of the other folders but I would guess that its the same story. These folders can all be found in the Application Support folder (Library/Application Support/X-Rite/i1 Profiler/Display Measurements). X-Rite published CxF3 as a proposed standard in 2009 and adopted xml as the platform in order to facilitate greater flexibility and acceptance. It is now going through the stages of being reviewed and adopted as an ISO standard. How useful this is in solving your current problems is another question. Patch Tool already provides you with many useful options. For the record the measurement data *should* go into Library/Application Support/X-Rite/i1 Profiler/Display Measurements however, when I went to saved mine it did not default to this folder so I created one and placed it there (which is handy for exporting as already reported. ANOTHER curious feature, or problem depending on your perspective, that I am having is that, once I have finished creating my display profile, I am warned that saving it to the System is not an option. It goes into the Library/Colorsync/Profiles/Displays folder. If I want to compare the profile to another (e.g. AdobeRGB) I am prevented from loading it or any other profiles into the 3D gamut view. I copied it to the same folder for the User (Me, the administrator) but I had to use my password even though I am logged on. I have since restarted the computer to see if that helped. Computer says "No!". In an attempt to satisfy myself that this was a Profiler problem and not something else I created another display profile using it Color Navigator. I encountered a similar problem telling me that my privileges for the targeted folder (Display Profiles in the User's Library) were not to set to Me (which they are) and did not allow the profiled to be saved. where that leaves us I don't know. The most positive thing I have gained from this discussion is losing my self doubt about my proficiency with i1 Profiler. Mark On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 8:22 AM, dpascale <dpascale@babelcolor.com> wrote:
Ethan,
"Can the Display-Reader module be used to measure the whitepoint for display measurement data? I'm thinking along the lines of showing a white patch, measuring it, and using that as the whitepoint value."
Yes. Here is a screenshot of the tool: http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/screen_shots/ PatchTool_Display-Reader.htm The export dialog: http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/screen_shots/ PatchTool_Display-Reader_CGATS.htm
You can contact me offlist if you prefer.
Danny
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Hansen" < ehansen@drycreekphoto.com> To: "'dpascale'" <dpascale@babelcolor.com>; "'Roger Breton'" < graxx@videotron.ca>; "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'" < colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 4:15 PM Subject: RE: i1Profiler display measurements
From:
However, this is non-normalized emission data. In other words, the
WhitePoint is not normalized to Y=100 and the display WhitePoint will likely not match a standard Illuminant.
When you open the cxf file, PatchTool will ask you to select an Illuminant, because it expects a reference Illuminant, which is always required for reflectance measurement. If your display is nearly spot-on a standard Illuminant (i.e. D50, D65), this selection makes sense. In most cases it does not.
Danny,
Thank you for helping clear up matters! Can the Display-Reader module be used to measure the whitepoint for display measurement data? I'm thinking along the lines of showing a white patch, measuring it, and using that as the whitepoint value.
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync- users/mark.stegman%40gmail.com
This email sent to mark.stegman@gmail.com
Mark, Your excellent points are thoroughly well taken. First, thank’s for the suggestion to change the *.dmxf to *.xml, to allow opening the file under a browser. Sadly, that does not help change the presentation of the data (the nature of XML). Call me sentimental but I hate having to scroll the file up and down to find the data I am looking for? CIE XYZ values are stored at the beginning of the file while their corresponding RGB device values are at the end of the file. With PatchTool, I get the two served up under the same friendly graphic display. That’s an important value to me, Mark, since my time on earth is limited... I admit I have not looked at the CxF3 specs yet but, in order to decipher the DMXF format, for display measurements, at least, so far, one has to do a fair amount of “reverse-engineering”? Like, I find that “Measurement41” encapsulates the CIE XYZ for the monitor calibrated white point. But, if I search for the corresponding device RGB values, which should be RGB=255,255,255, nothing turns up readily? It’s not stored in the following piece of data but in a completely separate section, at the end of the file, in the “Target” section, as I said above. After I reasoned that the number “41” was the key to my search, it was a cinch to find the “Target41” entry and I was home free. There is a logic to the way the data is coded, no question, but it’s not for the faint of heart. The …/i1 Profiler/Display Measurements subdirectory does exist on my system, but it’s empty? I have not checked to see whether it was empty *before* calibrating my monitor but it sure remained empty *after* calibrating, with the exception, of course, for the file “sample-i1Pro.dmxf which is placed there by the installer. So, I am still not sure whether i1Profiler actually saves a copy of display measurements anywhere on the system other than in the resulting display profile? One has to drag and drop the profile onto the measurement icon, in i1Profiler, as Ethan pointed out yesterday, to actually force the software to serve up the data. Best / Roger From: Mark Stegman [mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com] Sent: 19 février 2015 06:50 To: dpascale Cc: Ethan Hansen; Roger Breton; 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List Subject: Re: i1Profiler display measurements Roger, Ethan, Danny, Far be it from me to try and steal any of Danny's thunder but I would like to make a contribution. Lifting the bonnet on these things is NOT my area of expertise but, as I understand it the dmxf file is actually a CxF3 file (which is based on XML). If you change the extension to .xml you can open it in any browser, X-Code or even a text editor. The header reads... <cc:CxF xmlns:cc="http://colorexchangeformat.com/CxF3-core" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"> This also applies to the Patch Sets and the Profile Settings. I haven't explored all of the other folders but I would guess that its the same story. These folders can all be found in the Application Support folder (Library/Application Support/X-Rite/i1 Profiler/Display Measurements). X-Rite published CxF3 as a proposed standard in 2009 and adopted xml as the platform in order to facilitate greater flexibility and acceptance. It is now going through the stages of being reviewed and adopted as an ISO standard. How useful this is in solving your current problems is another question. Patch Tool already provides you with many useful options. For the record the measurement data should go into Library/Application Support/X-Rite/i1 Profiler/Display Measurements however, when I went to saved mine it did not default to this folder so I created one and placed it there (which is handy for exporting as already reported. ANOTHER curious feature, or problem depending on your perspective, that I am having is that, once I have finished creating my display profile, I am warned that saving it to the System is not an option. It goes into the Library/Colorsync/Profiles/Displays folder. If I want to compare the profile to another (e.g. AdobeRGB) I am prevented from loading it or any other profiles into the 3D gamut view. I copied it to the same folder for the User (Me, the administrator) but I had to use my password even though I am logged on. I have since restarted the computer to see if that helped. Computer says "No!". In an attempt to satisfy myself that this was a Profiler problem and not something else I created another display profile using it Color Navigator. I encountered a similar problem telling me that my privileges for the targeted folder (Display Profiles in the User's Library) were not to set to Me (which they are) and did not allow the profiled to be saved. where that leaves us I don't know. The most positive thing I have gained from this discussion is losing my self doubt about my proficiency with i1 Profiler. Mark On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 8:22 AM, dpascale <dpascale@babelcolor.com <mailto:dpascale@babelcolor.com> > wrote: Ethan, "Can the Display-Reader module be used to measure the whitepoint for display measurement data? I'm thinking along the lines of showing a white patch, measuring it, and using that as the whitepoint value." Yes. Here is a screenshot of the tool: http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/screen_shots/PatchTool_Display-Reader.h... The export dialog: http://www.babelcolor.com/main_level/screen_shots/PatchTool_Display-Reader_C... You can contact me offlist if you prefer. Danny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ethan Hansen" <ehansen@drycreekphoto.com <mailto:ehansen@drycreekphoto.com> > To: "'dpascale'" <dpascale@babelcolor.com <mailto:dpascale@babelcolor.com> >; "'Roger Breton'" <graxx@videotron.ca <mailto:graxx@videotron.ca> >; "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com <http://lists.apple.com> ' List'" <colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 4:15 PM Subject: RE: i1Profiler display measurements From: However, this is non-normalized emission data. In other words, the WhitePoint is not normalized to Y=100 and the display WhitePoint will likely not match a standard Illuminant. When you open the cxf file, PatchTool will ask you to select an Illuminant, because it expects a reference Illuminant, which is always required for reflectance measurement. If your display is nearly spot-on a standard Illuminant (i.e. D50, D65), this selection makes sense. In most cases it does not. Danny, Thank you for helping clear up matters! Can the Display-Reader module be used to measure the whitepoint for display measurement data? I'm thinking along the lines of showing a white patch, measuring it, and using that as the whitepoint value. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com <mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> ) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/mark.stegman%40gmail... This email sent to mark.stegman@gmail.com <mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>
Roger, I am glad that I was able to bring some light to the subject. I'll try to shed some more. On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Roger Breton <graxx@videotron.ca> wrote: First, thank’s for the suggestion to change the *.dmxf to *.xml, to allow
opening the file under a browser. Sadly, that does not help change the presentation of the data (the nature of XML). Call me sentimental but I hate having to scroll the file up and down to find the data I am looking for? CIE XYZ values are stored at the beginning of the file while their corresponding RGB device values are at the end of the file. With PatchTool, I get the two served up under the same friendly graphic display. That’s an important value to me, Mark, since my time on earth is limited... I admit I have not looked at the CxF3 specs yet but, in order to decipher the DMXF format, for display measurements, at least, so far, one has to do a fair amount of “reverse-engineering”? Like, I find that “Measurement41” encapsulates the CIE XYZ for the monitor calibrated white point. But, if I search for the corresponding device RGB values, which should be RGB=255,255,255, nothing turns up readily? It’s not stored in the following piece of data but in a completely separate section, at the end of the file, in the “Target” section, as I said above. After I reasoned that the number “41” was the key to my search, it was a cinch to find the “Target41” entry and I was home free. There is a logic to the way the data is coded, no question, but it’s not for the faint of heart.
As the data is in the proposed ISO standard CxF3 format I would think that it would, or should, be accessible to a multitude of applications and in a 'digestible' form. I don't think it is intended as a working file in this 'raw' state. The fact that Danny's app already does this shows that he is, naturally, ahead of the game. The bottom line is it is NOT a proprietary format and therefore, no mystery. I have the documents from X-Rite detailing the spec if you would like some good bed-time reading. I believe they on X-Rite's website but haven't confirmed this.
The …/i1 Profiler/Display Measurements subdirectory does exist on my system, but it’s empty? I have not checked to see whether it was empty *before* calibrating my monitor but it sure remained empty *after* calibrating, with the exception, of course, for the file “sample-i1Pro.dmxf which is placed there by the installer. So, I am still not sure whether i1Profiler actually saves a copy of display measurements anywhere on the system other than in the resulting display profile? One has to drag and drop the profile onto the measurement icon, in i1Profiler, as Ethan pointed out yesterday, to actually force the software to serve up the data.
Profiler only saves the data if you tell it to. If you want your data to go into the appropriate folder, in this case, the Measurements folder, you just use the Load/Save option at whatever stage of the process you are at. Once I had located the folder through the i1 Profiler Load/Save dialogue it remembered the location. You can also drag and drop your saved data file (Measurement, Settings, Patch Sets...) into, or out of, the appropriate folder(s) where they can readily accessed by Profiler. As it was said earlier, you can 'export' file by simply choosing another location to save it to. If anyone can shed light on the Compare Profiles option at the end of the process it would be greatly appreciated. This was a great teaching tool in Profilemaker 5 and I thought I had used it successfully in Profiler. Some bugs have reportedly crept in as a result of updates so I'm not sure if it is a result of cerebral neurone atrophy or Profiler. Regards, Mark
participants (4)
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dpascale
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Ethan Hansen
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Mark Stegman
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Roger Breton