CMYK Profile Targets
If I have an RGB printer (such as the Epson StylusPro 4900) and I want to print profile targets I would use Adobe Color Print Utility since there is no way to turn off color management in Photoshop. What if I have a CMYK print driver (such as our color copiers). The print driver was verified as expecting CMYK by printing an untagged gray ramp with CMY=0 so the ramp is black channel only. No color toner printed so the driver expects a CMYK image. How do I send the CMYK targets to the printer since ACPU only supports RGB images and Photoshop does not have a "no color management" option? Thanks. Ken
On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:17 AM, Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> wrote:
How do I send the CMYK targets to the printer since ACPU only supports RGB images and Photoshop does not have a "no color management" option?
So ACPU will not accpet a CMYK document? Never tried it, I always try to print such data using the product that built the target within that application. Here's an old trick from the ColorBlind days that may work. Open CMYK doc in Photoshop. Split Channels. Delete K channel Merge channels back into RGB. As I said, in the old days, that was a kludge to print CMYK data from ColorBlind in cases where you couldn't handle a four channel CMYK doc. As to how the measurements resulting from reading such a print would work in modern ICC software, I don't know. Again, best to print it out of say i1Profiler or whatever application built the target. There's no reason we should have to depend on Adobe and Photoshop to print something an ICC color profile app should do in the first place. I suspect the big issue is the printer driver! The Epson driver doesn't like CMYK data, it expects RGB. You probably need another driver (or what some often incorrectly call another RIP). ImagePrint comes to mind. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
Andrew, On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:00 AM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
Here's an old trick from the ColorBlind days that may work.
Open CMYK doc in Photoshop. Split Channels. Delete K channel Merge channels back into RGB.
So what happened if your CMYK file was made with GCR with Heavy black generation? You can achieve the same or similar result within the file by converting your CMYK file to Multichannel and then to RGB. You ended up with an RGBK file! Photoshop is good at allowing such... anomolies. Not sure if it should. Mark
On Apr 23, 2014, at 10:45 PM, Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com> wrote:
So what happened if your CMYK file was made with GCR with Heavy black generation?
Doesn't matter. At least with ColorBlind. The idea was to send the 'raw' CMY numbers to the device to produce output one could measure. GCR is an attribute you'd build into the profile that results from the measurements. The device wouldn't accept CMYK but would accept RGB so the idea was to provide data the driver could hand off and produce output of target. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
Good god man! That won’t work for profiling targets. The CMYK values must stay put and Photoshop prints CMYK profiling targets just fine to CMYK Postscript drivers... Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Apr 23, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
Here's an old trick from the ColorBlind days that may work.
Open CMYK doc in Photoshop. Split Channels. Delete K channel Merge channels back into RGB.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 6:18 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
The CMYK values must stay put and Photoshop prints CMYK profiling targets just fine to CMYK Postscript drivers...
But in this context, it's not a Postscript driver, it's a Quickdraw driver expecting RGB. Like I said, it was 'the kludge' used last century with ColorBlind. Obviously if the driver can accept CMYK data, that's what you should send. Hence my suggestion for a substitute driver (ImagePrint or the like). Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
Thanks to everyone for the replies (and sorry I didn't have time to post again more quickly). I knew there was some way to do this, but it's been so long since I printed to a cmyk driver I forgot the details. I was not able to print directly from the color management software because I was profiling a printer in a different department, so I needed to just bring the target files with me. Thanks again. It's worked out very nicely! :) Ken On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net>wrote:
On Apr 24, 2014, at 6:18 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
The CMYK values must stay put and Photoshop prints CMYK profiling targets just fine to CMYK Postscript drivers...
But in this context, it's not a Postscript driver, it's a Quickdraw driver expecting RGB. Like I said, it was 'the kludge' used last century with ColorBlind. Obviously if the driver can accept CMYK data, that's what you should send. Hence my suggestion for a substitute driver (ImagePrint or the like).
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I was responding to Ken’s question about sending CMYK targets to postscript printer drivers like his copiers (see Ken’s original question at the bottom). Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
On Apr 24, 2014, at 6:18 AM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
The CMYK values must stay put and Photoshop prints CMYK profiling targets just fine to CMYK Postscript drivers...
But in this context, it's not a Postscript driver, it's a Quickdraw driver expecting RGB.
On Apr 23, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> wrote:
What if I have a CMYK print driver (such as our color copiers). How do I send the CMYK targets to the printer since ACPU only supports RGB images and Photoshop does not have a "no color management" option?
OK but wasn't his original post something about sending them to an Epson (with their driver)? That driver will barf on CMYK data. Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/ On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
I was responding to Ken’s question about sending CMYK targets to postscript printer drivers like his copiers (see Ken’s original question at the bottom).
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
Ken’s original message essentially asked “I use ACPU to print RGB targets for an Epson but how can I print CMYK targets for CMYK managed devices like our copiers?” and then the responses went in a weird direction... Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Apr 24, 2014, at 3:18 PM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
OK but wasn't his original post something about sending them to an Epson (with their driver)? That driver will barf on CMYK data.
Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
I was responding to Ken’s question about sending CMYK targets to postscript printer drivers like his copiers (see Ken’s original question at the bottom).
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
Scott et al, I'm not sure that Ken's original assumption about the handling of CMYK files by his copier is valid. He sent a CMYK file that had zero CMY values and a grayscale on the black if I remember rightly. My guess is that most office copiers would just ignore the CMY and treat the black as if it was a greyscale image. Ken, have you had a look at the printed result with a linen tester? Do you see black toner ONLY or a greyscale image made up of CMYK? Mark
On 25 Apr 2014, at 12:24 pm, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
Ken’s original message essentially asked “I use ACPU to print RGB targets for an Epson but how can I print CMYK targets for CMYK managed devices like our copiers?” and then the responses went in a weird direction...
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Apr 24, 2014, at 3:18 PM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
OK but wasn't his original post something about sending them to an Epson (with their driver)? That driver will barf on CMYK data.
Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
I was responding to Ken’s question about sending CMYK targets to postscript printer drivers like his copiers (see Ken’s original question at the bottom).
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
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I did examine the print with a very strong loupe and there was only black toner. The other image I printed the same way was an RGB grayscale (gradated from 0 - 255) with R=G=B. If the postscript print driver were taking "grayscale" images and printing it with black only, then this image also should have only had black toner. But that image had all four color toners to make the grayscale, so the conclusion that the driver expects CMYK images I believe is correct. Ken On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:39 AM, Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com>wrote:
Scott et al,
I'm not sure that Ken's original assumption about the handling of CMYK files by his copier is valid. He sent a CMYK file that had zero CMY values and a grayscale on the black if I remember rightly. My guess is that most office copiers would just ignore the CMY and treat the black as if it was a greyscale image.
Ken, have you had a look at the printed result with a linen tester?
Do you see black toner ONLY or a greyscale image made up of CMYK?
Mark
On 25 Apr 2014, at 12:24 pm, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
Ken’s original message essentially asked “I use ACPU to print RGB targets for an Epson but how can I print CMYK targets for CMYK managed devices like our copiers?” and then the responses went in a weird direction...
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Apr 24, 2014, at 3:18 PM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
OK but wasn't his original post something about sending them to an Epson (with their driver)? That driver will barf on CMYK data.
Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
I was responding to Ken’s question about sending CMYK targets to postscript printer drivers like his copiers (see Ken’s original question at the bottom).
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
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Ken, I underestimated your powers of analysis. I stand corrected... or sit as the case may be. Mark
On 25 Apr 2014, at 9:35 pm, Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> wrote:
I did examine the print with a very strong loupe and there was only black toner. The other image I printed the same way was an RGB grayscale (gradated from 0 - 255) with R=G=B. If the postscript print driver were taking "grayscale" images and printing it with black only, then this image also should have only had black toner. But that image had all four color toners to make the grayscale, so the conclusion that the driver expects CMYK images I believe is correct.
Ken
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:39 AM, Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com> wrote: Scott et al,
I'm not sure that Ken's original assumption about the handling of CMYK files by his copier is valid. He sent a CMYK file that had zero CMY values and a grayscale on the black if I remember rightly. My guess is that most office copiers would just ignore the CMY and treat the black as if it was a greyscale image.
Ken, have you had a look at the printed result with a linen tester?
Do you see black toner ONLY or a greyscale image made up of CMYK?
Mark
On 25 Apr 2014, at 12:24 pm, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
Ken’s original message essentially asked “I use ACPU to print RGB targets for an Epson but how can I print CMYK targets for CMYK managed devices like our copiers?” and then the responses went in a weird direction...
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
On Apr 24, 2014, at 3:18 PM, Andrew Rodney <andrew@digitaldog.net> wrote:
OK but wasn't his original post something about sending them to an Epson (with their driver)? That driver will barf on CMYK data.
Andrew Rodney http://www.digitaldog.net/
On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Scott Martin <scott@on-sight.com> wrote:
I was responding to Ken’s question about sending CMYK targets to postscript printer drivers like his copiers (see Ken’s original question at the bottom).
Scott Martin www.on-sight.com
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Well, one surefire way to find out if the printer is managed as CMYK is to print a Visual IT8.7 target and look at the CMYK (especially black) ramps under a loupe. If they are all single color, then you’ve got a CMYK managed device and driver. It the driver is Postscript it will use CMYK. If its not, RGB will be the mode to profile in. On Windows you sometimes have the choice of either driver (PS or PCL) and can use whichever you think makes sense for your workflow. Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Apr 25, 2014, at 1:39 AM, Mark Stegman <mark.stegman@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure that Ken's original assumption about the handling of CMYK files by his copier is valid.
Hey Ken! Yes, I’ve long been frustrated with ACPU’s inability to print CMYK targets (and inability to print some targets without scaling). You can, however print CMYK target’s through all versions of Photoshop. Simply assign *and* print with “U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2” RelCol, no BPC and you’re good! Scott Martin www.on-sight.com On Apr 23, 2014, at 9:17 AM, Ken Fleisher <PT_Ken@netbox.com> wrote:
How do I send the CMYK targets to the printer since ACPU only supports RGB images and Photoshop does not have a "no color management" option?
Thanks. Ken
participants (4)
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Andrew Rodney
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Ken Fleisher
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Mark Stegman
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Scott Martin