Re: UltraMax K3 inks? (Paul Schilliger) (Mike Strickler)
I was just now chiding someone for the gratuitous use of apostrophes only to discover this in my own writing below. How does this happen? Anyway, I see no further comment on this topic--is the answer so self-evident?
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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:31:21 -0700 From: Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: UltraMax K3 inks? (Paul Schilliger) Message-ID: <9AAA1325-5457-4017-8DCF-5A75BC558561@mspgraphics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I shoudn't think that you'd need a RIP just because you changed the ink set, but if the colorant's are different of course you won't be able to use your old profiles. This is rather the point of an ouput proifile, after all. Be leery of inks that are "a fraction of the cost," as quality pigments (e.g., from Ciba Geigy) are very costly, and there is a limit to how cheap the inks can be. For top-quality replacement inks you should expect to pay at least half the price of the OEM inks. You may not realize your error until some months or years later, when the prints fade or discolor.
Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services 423 Aaron St. Suite E Cotati, CA 94931 O: (1) 707.664.1628 C: (1) 707.321.7855 F: (1) 707.939.4542 info@mspgraphics.com www.mspgraphics.com
Third-party inks are wonderful for small format inkjets for all sorts of reasons. Some are better quality; some are more convenient (Ink2Image Trio); many are inexpensive; and, in many cases, they're simply available long after the printer manufacturer has stopped selling them. They start to make a lot less sense for large format printers, though. The inks don't just make marks on the page; they also cool and lubricate the printheads, and that requires some very specific mechanical and chemical properties that are generally protected by more patents than most companies can throw a lawyer at. If something happens to your $200 desktop printer, the worst that can happen is you have to go out and buy a new $200 printer. But, if something happens to your large format printer...well, a single printhead in a Canon iPF costs $500, and it's got two of them. You'll be lucky to find a reputable service firm that will set foot on your premises for much less than $150 / hour, and Canon will charge you a $1500 flat fee to send out a technician. Go with a third party repair firm, and chances are not bad that you'll spend that much in parts alone -- and possibly significantly more. Honestly, I just don't see it being even theoretically worth it. Just pass the cost of OEM ink to your clients and look to other ways to save money. And, if it's for gamut reasons...well, I'd only go that route if I was willing to spend the money to get a whole new printer regardless, and use the new inks only in a transitional phase in preparation for the new printer. However long I got out of the third-party inks would be gravy. But different people have different risk aversion preferences and strategies, so this may well not apply to you. Cheers, b& On Oct 24, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> wrote:
I was just now chiding someone for the gratuitous use of apostrophes only to discover this in my own writing below. How does this happen?
Anyway, I see no further comment on this topic--is the answer so self-evident?
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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:31:21 -0700 From: Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: UltraMax K3 inks? (Paul Schilliger) Message-ID: <9AAA1325-5457-4017-8DCF-5A75BC558561@mspgraphics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I shoudn't think that you'd need a RIP just because you changed the ink set, but if the colorant's are different of course you won't be able to use your old profiles. This is rather the point of an ouput proifile, after all. Be leery of inks that are "a fraction of the cost," as quality pigments (e.g., from Ciba Geigy) are very costly, and there is a limit to how cheap the inks can be. For top-quality replacement inks you should expect to pay at least half the price of the OEM inks. You may not realize your error until some months or years later, when the prints fade or discolor.
Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services 423 Aaron St. Suite E Cotati, CA 94931 O: (1) 707.664.1628 C: (1) 707.321.7855 F: (1) 707.939.4542 info@mspgraphics.com www.mspgraphics.com
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Valuable perspective, Ben. What I would say is that in a production environment, where margins are low, it can make a lot of sense to expolre alternative ink sources. However, there are different grades of replacement ink. Some are of proven quality. Prism, for example, is a knowledgeable US-based company that uses only OEM-grade pigments and vehicles. On the other hand, these inks (which are not sold direct, by the way), ae not truly cheap, costing typically at least half as much as OEM inks. For the artist or smaller print provider working in LF I would tend to agree with you, as ink is a fairly small portion of the cost of making the print. And for small retail quantities the availability of these better quality third-party inks may not be so good. Mike Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services 423 Aaron St. Suite E Cotati, CA 94931 O: (1) 707.664.1628 C: (1) 707.321.7855 F: (1) 707.939.4542 info@mspgraphics.com www.mspgraphics.com On Oct 24, 2013, at 1:12 PM, Ben Goren wrote:
Third-party inks are wonderful for small format inkjets for all sorts of reasons. Some are better quality; some are more convenient (Ink2Image Trio); many are inexpensive; and, in many cases, they're simply available long after the printer manufacturer has stopped selling them.
They start to make a lot less sense for large format printers, though. The inks don't just make marks on the page; they also cool and lubricate the printheads, and that requires some very specific mechanical and chemical properties that are generally protected by more patents than most companies can throw a lawyer at.
If something happens to your $200 desktop printer, the worst that can happen is you have to go out and buy a new $200 printer.
But, if something happens to your large format printer...well, a single printhead in a Canon iPF costs $500, and it's got two of them. You'll be lucky to find a reputable service firm that will set foot on your premises for much less than $150 / hour, and Canon will charge you a $1500 flat fee to send out a technician. Go with a third party repair firm, and chances are not bad that you'll spend that much in parts alone -- and possibly significantly more.
Honestly, I just don't see it being even theoretically worth it. Just pass the cost of OEM ink to your clients and look to other ways to save money. And, if it's for gamut reasons...well, I'd only go that route if I was willing to spend the money to get a whole new printer regardless, and use the new inks only in a transitional phase in preparation for the new printer. However long I got out of the third-party inks would be gravy.
But different people have different risk aversion preferences and strategies, so this may well not apply to you.
Cheers,
b&
On Oct 24, 2013, at 12:19 PM, Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> wrote:
I was just now chiding someone for the gratuitous use of apostrophes only to discover this in my own writing below. How does this happen?
Anyway, I see no further comment on this topic--is the answer so self-evident?
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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:31:21 -0700 From: Mike Strickler <info@mspgraphics.com> To: colorsync-users@lists.apple.com Subject: UltraMax K3 inks? (Paul Schilliger) Message-ID: <9AAA1325-5457-4017-8DCF-5A75BC558561@mspgraphics.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I shoudn't think that you'd need a RIP just because you changed the ink set, but if the colorant's are different of course you won't be able to use your old profiles. This is rather the point of an ouput proifile, after all. Be leery of inks that are "a fraction of the cost," as quality pigments (e.g., from Ciba Geigy) are very costly, and there is a limit to how cheap the inks can be. For top-quality replacement inks you should expect to pay at least half the price of the OEM inks. You may not realize your error until some months or years later, when the prints fade or discolor.
Mike Strickler MSP Graphic Services 423 Aaron St. Suite E Cotati, CA 94931 O: (1) 707.664.1628 C: (1) 707.321.7855 F: (1) 707.939.4542 info@mspgraphics.com www.mspgraphics.com
_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/ben%40trumpetpower.c...
This email sent to ben@trumpetpower.com
participants (2)
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Ben Goren
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Mike Strickler