September 2004 - Darwin-dev

Re: gcc3.4 plus Apple's gcc3.3
by Stan Shebs 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910 jmzorko(a)mac.com wrote: Hello, all ... It's just a shell script that you could hack up, but I don't recommend you try - FSF 3.4 is missing dozens of features essential to building Mac apps, such as framework path searching, alignment pragmas, and similar kinds of bits. Some of those features are needed by system headers and could cause interesting (heh) runtime problems. Ultra portable pure ISO/K&R C code, such as what GCC itself is written in (for reasons that should be obvious), will be OK, but just one Cocoa or Carbon call can mess you up. So I recommend you install gcc-3.4 under its own name only, and have all of your 3.4-using code ask for 3.4 explicitly by name. Stan _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I am involved in porting a C++ class framework we use at work to OSX / Darwin PPC so we can target OSX as well as Win32 and Linux. This code demands gcc3.4, which shouldn't be an issue (gcc3.4 "make bootstrap" seemed to work just fine on my 1.33GHz 12" PowerBook), but I would like to, if possible, use gcc-select to choose between Apple's gcc3.3 and FSFs gcc3.4. Has anyone else done this? I've not researched how I would approach doing this yet (this posting is part of that research <smile>). This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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gcc3.4 plus Apple's gcc3.3
by jmzorko＠mac.com 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hello, all ... Regards, John Falling You - exploring the beauty of voice and sound New album, "Touch", available now http://www.magnatune.com/artists/falling_you _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I am involved in porting a C++ class framework we use at work to OSX / Darwin PPC so we can target OSX as well as Win32 and Linux. This code demands gcc3.4, which shouldn't be an issue (gcc3.4 "make bootstrap" seemed to work just fine on my 1.33GHz 12" PowerBook), but I would like to, if possible, use gcc-select to choose between Apple's gcc3.3 and FSFs gcc3.4. Has anyone else done this? I've not researched how I would approach doing this yet (this posting is part of that research <smile>). This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Thermal scheduling
by Paul Ripke 30 Sep '04

30 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Am 29.09.2004 um 15:54 schrieb John Siracusa: One theory presented to explain the results was that the kernel is taking CPU temperature into account when doling out CPU cycles. Well, I'm not really a kernel expert, but the scheduler's task is to decide which process/thread gets the next CPU quantum, where a CPU quantum is about 10 ms. If there's no process in need of processing time, it sends the CPU into doze mode. Cheers, -- stix _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On Thursday, Sep 30, 2004, at 01:00 Australia/Sydney, John Siracusa wrote: On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:27:38 +0200, Markus Hitter <mah(a)jump-ing.de> wrote: The observed result of the test program is that it runs at X iterations/sec for some time, then drops to X - N iterations/sec for the remainder. The drop seems to coincide with a CPU temp that passes some threshold. Well, it appears the thermal throttling that could be done in the T_THERMAL interrupt handler in: xnu/osfmk/ppc/interrupt.c: interrupt() is #ifdef'ed out, at least in the older publicly available versions I've checked. I note that this code has been removed somewhere between 10.3.2 and 10.3.5. Looks like something else is doing this throttling now, judging by the "deprecated" comments in xnu/osfmk/ppc/machine_routines_asm.s, and the fact that the only reference I can find in the 10.3.5 xnu source to CPU thermal interrupts is in CHUD, and that's just a counter. Just curious: Are any "THERMAL" type messages dumped to the syslog? Another option may be to look at CHUD - maybe the above counter is accessible; I don't have a 10.3.x capable machine ATM to check. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: How to hide command line passed to my own tool
by Mike Smith 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Message: 7 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:35:55 +0200 From: Martin Bestmann <martin(a)no.netopia.com> Subject: How to hide command line passed to my own tool To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Message-ID: <6609B010-1246-11D9-8254-000393D77230(a)no.netopia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi, I'm writing a command line tool. When I call this tool from my app I like to hide those parameters so that ps or other tools like this can not see them. Some common techniques: = Mike _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On Sep 29, 2004, at 12:04 PM, darwin-dev-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: The commandline is, by definition, public information. If you don't want your tool's arguments visible, pass them elsewhere. 1) Create a file using mkstemp with appropriate permissions, write arguments into it and pass the name of the file. 2) Create a file using mkstemp and no permissions, unlink it, write arguments into it, seek to zero and pass the descriptor (mark it no close on exec) to the tool. 3) Create a pipe, pass one end of it to the tool, write the arguments into the other end. Each of these techniques is simple, reliable and completely effective. #1 is secure against other users, but not against the user that the tool runs as. #2 and #3 are secure against anyone that can't trace your processes. Setproctitle, when implemented, is for informative purposes only; since it can't be called until well after the process starts, the arguments can still be read during process startup. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: How to hide command line passed to my own tool
by seebs＠plethora.net 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com In message <6609B010-1246-11D9-8254-000393D77230(a)no.netopia.com>, Martin Bestma nn writes: >I'm writing a command line tool. When I call this tool from my app I >like to hide those parameters so that ps or other tools like this can >not see them. >I tried the following code >for (int i=1; i<argc; i++) { > char *arg = argv[i]; > while(*arg) > *arg++ = "#"; > } >Set my my argument to something unreadable but this doesn't help. I >still see the parameters when I do a ps. >Is there any way to do this on darwin? Hmm! Interesting. The canonical Berkeley answer is setproctitle(3), but that seems to be missing. -s _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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How to hide command line passed to my own tool
by Martin Bestmann 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi, for (int i=1; i<argc; i++) { char *arg = argv[i]; while(*arg) *arg++ = "#"; } Is there any way to do this on darwin? Thanks, _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I'm writing a command line tool. When I call this tool from my app I like to hide those parameters so that ps or other tools like this can not see them. I tried the following code Set my my argument to something unreadable but this doesn't help. I still see the parameters when I do a ps. Martin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------- Martin Bestmann Netopia Development GmbH Phone: +49-9134-9942-0 Weingasse 26 Fax: +49-9134-997911 91077 Neunkirchen am Brand e-mail:martin@no.netopia.com Germany This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Thermal scheduling
by Brian Bergstrand 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John, Make sure that System Prefrences->Engery Saver->Options->Processor Performance is set to "Highest". The default of "Automatic" can affect processor performance quite a lot in certain situations. This may be what you are seeing. HTH. On Sep 29, 2004, at 10:00 AM, John Siracusa wrote: > > The observed result of the test program is that it runs at X > iterations/sec > for some time, then drops to X - N iterations/sec for the remainder. > The > drop seems to coincide with a CPU temp that passes some threshold. > > This drop is not seen on any Macs other than the dual 2.5GHz Power > Mac. The > concern is that people buying a 2.5GHz Mac (at great expense) cannot > use the > full capacity of the CPUs for more than a short period of time. > ... > The goal is not to throttle the CPU, but to make it run a particular > task > using all available CPU resources. Obviously there is some overhead > for the > OS, etc., but the one-time drop-off in speed on the 2.5GHz Power Mac > (and > nowhere else when running the same code, same OS, etc.) has led some > people > to believe that the issue is CPU heat, and that the OS (or maybe even > the > hardware itself) is compensating for it by slowing down slightly. > > -John > Brian Bergstrand <http://www.bergstrand.org/brian/>, AIM: triryche206 PGP Key: <http://www.bergstrand.org/brian/misc/public_key.txt> One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say. - Will Durant -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQVrLi3nR2Fu2x7aiEQKr1QCg9v+FfdzUd/u2lemTGMDD+NrrHEsAni6x 4vnXg+CRuhsW9jj4XU8zMvw3 =gokW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Thermal scheduling
by John Siracusa 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 16:27:38 +0200, Markus Hitter <mah(a)jump-ing.de> wrote: > Am 29.09.2004 um 15:54 schrieb John Siracusa: > > > One theory presented to explain the results was that the kernel is > > taking CPU temperature into account when doling out CPU cycles. > > Well, I'm not really a kernel expert, but the scheduler's task is to > decide which process/thread gets the next CPU quantum, where a CPU > quantum is about 10 ms. If there's no process in need of processing > time, it sends the CPU into doze mode. The observed result of the test program is that it runs at X iterations/sec for some time, then drops to X - N iterations/sec for the remainder. The drop seems to coincide with a CPU temp that passes some threshold. This drop is not seen on any Macs other than the dual 2.5GHz Power Mac. The concern is that people buying a 2.5GHz Mac (at great expense) cannot use the full capacity of the CPUs for more than a short period of time. > > I thought it might be the CPU hog "punisher" in the kernel > > Surely, there are more mechanisms going on in the kernel, independent > from the scheduler. If the CPU supports running at different speeds, > you should be able to switch between them without telling the > scheduler. > > This is how I understand things but again, I'm no expert :-) The goal is not to throttle the CPU, but to make it run a particular task using all available CPU resources. Obviously there is some overhead for the OS, etc., but the one-time drop-off in speed on the 2.5GHz Power Mac (and nowhere else when running the same code, same OS, etc.) has led some people to believe that the issue is CPU heat, and that the OS (or maybe even the hardware itself) is compensating for it by slowing down slightly. -John _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Thermal scheduling
by Markus Hitter 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Am 29.09.2004 um 15:54 schrieb John Siracusa: This is how I understand things but again, I'm no expert :-) Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… One theory presented to explain the results was that the kernel is taking CPU temperature into account when doling out CPU cycles. Well, I'm not really a kernel expert, but the scheduler's task is to decide which process/thread gets the next CPU quantum, where a CPU quantum is about 10 ms. If there's no process in need of processing time, it sends the CPU into doze mode. I thought it might be the CPU hog "punisher" in the kernel Surely, there are more mechanisms going on in the kernel, independent from the scheduler. If the CPU supports running at different speeds, you should be able to switch between them without telling the scheduler. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Thermal scheduling
by John Siracusa 29 Sep '04

29 Sep '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:45:43 +0100, Sam Hart wrote: > John wrote: >> I've been poring over the xnu source trying to find a place where CPU temp is >> involved in some sort of thread priority or scheduling calculation, but have >> not found one yet. I'm hoping it'll be faster to just ask here :) > > What are you trying to achieve ? I'm trying to explain the CPU throttling that apparently happens on dual 2.5GHz Power Macs under an "ideal" load (all CPU execution units used to fullest potential) that tests the CPU's thermal limits. One theory presented to explain the results was that the kernel is taking CPU temperature into account when doling out CPU cycles. I thought it might be the CPU hog "punisher" in the kernel that's been discussed on this list before, but the list archive search is down and I can't recall the details. Also, this happens with a single thread or with multiple threads. > This is no word of authority but my guess would be that it is handled by > AppleThermal.kext which appears to be closed source. Hm, bummer... -John _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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