May 2005 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: writing a new GUI environment
by Jonas Maebe 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 4 mei 2005, at 22:59, Erich Ocean wrote: At least under Panther it links to Carbon: Jonas _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Does anyone know how Apple's X implementation is done? It's not a Carbon or Cocoa app AFAIK... $ otool -L /usr/X11R6/bin/x /usr/X11R6/bin/x: /usr/X11R6/lib/libfreetype.6.dylib (compatibility version 6.3.0, current version 6.3.0) /usr/lib/libz.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/IOKit.framework/Versions/A/IOKit (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 179.1.0) /usr/lib/libXplugin.1.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreAudio.framework/Versions/A/CoreAudio (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit (compatibility version 45.0.0, current version 743.20.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Carbon (compatibility version 2.0.0, current version 128.0.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/OpenGL (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ ApplicationServices (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 19.0.0) /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 71.1.1) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: How to know when memory pages are swapped?
by Godfrey van der Linden 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Godfrey On 05/04/2005, at 13:15 , Stéphane Letz wrote: Le 4 mai 05, à 22:06, Godfrey van der Linden a écrit : Cheers Godfrey On 05/04/2005, at 12:12 , Stéphane Letz wrote: Hi, from the #include <Kernel/sys/mman.h> __BEGIN_DECLS #ifdef _P1003_1B_VISIBLE int mlockall __P((int)); int munlockall __P((void)); #endif /* _P1003_1B_VISIBLE */ int mlock __P((const void *, size_t)); #ifndef _MMAP_DECLARED #define _MMAP_DECLARED void * mmap __P((void *, size_t, int, int, int, off_t)); #endif _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Yup this is basically the solution I was going to suggest. Keep a small pool of 'wired' memory around on the end of your I/O train. I'm afraid I'm not quite sure what the correct userland APIs are but I believe you are on the right track. You probably don't want to mlockall() in any case, but I'll guess p1003 is probably Posix 1003 spec (just a guess). I know that paging can be an issue, especially with audio, but an audio stream should be so hot that paging doesn't really occur. Have you been able to work out what pages are missing and why they are so cold? Perhaps a more complete analysis of page utilisation will reward you better then mlocking a bunch of pages? No. We have been asked for this functionality quite a number of times but there really is no good way for the kernel to notify and heat up code in a client app when it chooses to page out some data. I have to ask, what are you trying to achieve? There is usually someway of achieving a very similar effect. In there any way for an application to be "notified" when one of the memory pages it uses is swapped on the disk? Is there a way to install an handler for "page-out" event? I need to avoid page to be swapped because they are accessed in a real-time audio thread. I finally found that mlock/munlock functions are available for user space code. Is this correct? What is this _P1003_1B_VISIBLE defined for actually? is this for kernel code only? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: writing a new GUI environment
by Erich Ocean 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 4, 2005, at 1:46 PM, Shawn Erickson wrote: On May 4, 2005, at 1:36 PM, Erich Ocean wrote: >From http://developer.apple.com/qa/qa2001/qa1269.html: [snip] Best, Erich _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Mac OS X supports three (or perhaps four or five) distinct GUI enviroments: Carbon, Cocoa, Java, and perhaps QuickTime and OpenGL. OpenGL => NSGL, AGL, CGL or GLUT (<http://developer.apple.com/qa/qa2001/qa1269.html>) CGL looks like it *should* be low-level, but in fact, it's only accessible via Carbon or Cocoa: CGL or Core OpenGL is the lowest accessible interface API for OpenGL. It knows nothing about windowing systems but can be used directly to find both renderer information and as a full screen or off screen interface. It is accessible from both Cocoa and Carbon and is what both NSGL and AGL are built on. A complete Pbuffer interface is also provided. Functionality is provided in via the OpenGL framework and applications can include the OpenGL.h header to access CGL's functionality. If you want to take over the whole the screen then you could just use OpenGL (CGL) and Quartz and do all your own drawing. I'd like to use CGL *without* Carbon or Cocoa; I'm perfectly happy doing my own window management, so the full-screen thing would work. (It would be *nice* to be a full citizen in Mac OS X, but since this is for educational purposes, I can live with that.) What I'm concerned about is receiving keyboard and mouse events without having Carbon or Cocoa linked in. I'm getting the impression that that isn't possible. Does anyone know how Apple's X implementation is done? It's not a Carbon or Cocoa app AFAIK... This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: writing a new GUI environment
by Shawn Erickson 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 4, 2005, at 1:36 PM, Erich Ocean wrote: -Shawn _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Mac OS X supports three (or perhaps four or five) distinct GUI enviroments: Carbon, Cocoa, Java, and perhaps QuickTime and OpenGL. OpenGL => NSGL, AGL, CGL or GLUT (<http://developer.apple.com/qa/ qa2001/qa1269.html>) If I wanted to write a new GUI environment not layered on any of these, what would the appropriate API be? In other words, is it possible to write a GUI application without linking in anything but, say, Quartz or OpenGL (no Carbon, Cocoa, Java or QuickTime)? I understand that I would have to role everything myself, which is fine, because that's the point of the exercise. This isn't for end users, it's for me. I want to have a go at writing my own app framework that uses as little Apple code as possible on Mac OS X. Any help or ideas is appreciated. From what I can tell, the only supported way to create e.g. a window, is to use Carbon, Cocoa, or Java. I don't mind using SPI interfaces if need be; I just need to some pointers on what, exactly, I would need to interface with. Is is just the window server, or is there something else? To display windows and other standard widgets you will need to use some framework that has the concept of a window, Quartz and OpenGL don't have that directly themselves (at least not in the way you need). If you want to take over the whole the screen then you could just use OpenGL (CGL) and Quartz and do all your own drawing. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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writing a new GUI environment
by Erich Ocean 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Best, Erich _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Mac OS X supports three (or perhaps four or five) distinct GUI enviroments: Carbon, Cocoa, Java, and perhaps QuickTime and OpenGL. If I wanted to write a new GUI environment not layered on any of these, what would the appropriate API be? In other words, is it possible to write a GUI application without linking in anything but, say, Quartz or OpenGL (no Carbon, Cocoa, Java or QuickTime)? I understand that I would have to role everything myself, which is fine, because that's the point of the exercise. This isn't for end users, it's for me. I want to have a go at writing my own app framework that uses as little Apple code as possible on Mac OS X. Any help or ideas is appreciated. From what I can tell, the only supported way to create e.g. a window, is to use Carbon, Cocoa, or Java. I don't mind using SPI interfaces if need be; I just need to some pointers on what, exactly, I would need to interface with. Is is just the window server, or is there something else? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: calling open() on an older cd device returns EBUSY??
by David M. Cotter 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: How to know when memory pages are swapped?
by Stéphane Letz 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Le 4 mai 05, à 22:06, Godfrey van der Linden a écrit : Cheers Godfrey On 05/04/2005, at 12:12 , Stéphane Letz wrote: Hi, from the #include <Kernel/sys/mman.h> __BEGIN_DECLS #ifdef _P1003_1B_VISIBLE int mlockall __P((int)); int munlockall __P((void)); #endif /* _P1003_1B_VISIBLE */ int mlock __P((const void *, size_t)); #ifndef _MMAP_DECLARED #define _MMAP_DECLARED void * mmap __P((void *, size_t, int, int, int, off_t)); #endif Thanks Regards Stephane Letz _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… No. We have been asked for this functionality quite a number of times but there really is no good way for the kernel to notify and heat up code in a client app when it chooses to page out some data. I have to ask, what are you trying to achieve? There is usually someway of achieving a very similar effect. In there any way for an application to be "notified" when one of the memory pages it uses is swapped on the disk? Is there a way to install an handler for "page-out" event? I need to avoid page to be swapped because they are accessed in a real-time audio thread. I finally found that mlock/munlock functions are available for user space code. Is this correct? What is this _P1003_1B_VISIBLE defined for actually? is this for kernel code only? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: How to know when memory pages are swapped?
by Godfrey van der Linden 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Cheers Godfrey On 05/04/2005, at 12:12 , Stéphane Letz wrote: Hi, _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… No. We have been asked for this functionality quite a number of times but there really is no good way for the kernel to notify and heat up code in a client app when it chooses to page out some data. I have to ask, what are you trying to achieve? There is usually someway of achieving a very similar effect. In there any way for an application to be "notified" when one of the memory pages it uses is swapped on the disk? Is there a way to install an handler for "page-out" event? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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How to know when memory pages are swapped?
by Stéphane Letz 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi, Thanks Stephane Letz _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… In there any way for an application to be "notified" when one of the memory pages it uses is swapped on the disk? Is there a way to install an handler for "page-out" event? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: calling open() on an older cd device returns EBUSY??
by Dan Markarian 04 May '05

04 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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