October 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

25 Oct '06

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Re: Problem when compiling Xprt of X11R7.1
by Ben Byer 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Oct 22, 2006, at 6:39 AM, Peter Dyballa wrote: (I think this is how one gets "experience"...) Ben _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Am 22.10.2006 um 09:16 schrieb Ben Byer: The problem here is in the ordering of the dynamic libraries. If you move them ('-lX11 -lXfont -lm -lfontenc -lfreetype -lz -lXdmcp -lXau') to the end of that line, after libXext.la, it will compile correctly. How do you find this? Which tools might tell to do so? Or is it just experience? (I am trying to compile xorg-server-1.1.99.3 of X11R7.1, that's what 'git status' tells me. And this seems to be a bit 'experimental:' minor changes in environment variables change success of making the lib targets!) I wish I had a clever or insightful answer for you here -- you will have to settle for "trial and error". :) I had already built the Xorg Xserver successfully, so I went and looked at my build-log and found the command that worked for me, but failed for you. Then, I tried to rebuild the Xserver with no patches (presumably, like you were) -- and I saw the same errors you did. Next, I cut and pasted the command from my build-log to the failing build -- that worked. So I knew that there was some difference between those two commands that was causing those error messages. I then slowly modified my "good" build command to more closely resemble the one you had that was failing. Eventually, the only difference was in the order of the parameters -- I saw that the errors mentioned libXfont, so I tried putting it (and the other shared libraries) at the end of the command line. Not too much fun, but now we have both learned a lesson: -l flags always go last! This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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IONetworkingFamily source for Intel?
by Andrew Gallatin 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com I've noticed that the sources for a few critical IOKit Kexts are missing from the Intel sources. I'm specifically looking for the Intel version of the IONetworkingFamily to (hopefully) track down a problem I'm having with my ethernet driver on Mac Pros. Will this ever be available? BTW, what's going on with with 10.4.8? It has been out for nearly a month and there are no sources posted yet. Thank you, Drew _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Darwin-dev Digest, Vol 3, Issue 277
by Michael Smith 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Oct 24, 2006, at 12:04 PM, Al Kirkus <al(a)kirkus.org> wrote: I run about 10 OSX file servers (AFP) under 10.4.7. Occassionally I see one of the 2 AppleFileServer processes go into an uninterruptible wait state and stop servicing all requests - functionally disconnecting all of its clients. My attempts to kill the process result in it going into a exiting state but the process never actually exits (the longest I waited was 2 days). I have to pull the plug to get the servers back to normal. This happens intermittently (anywhere between 1 and 30+ days apart) on all of my servers that service a fairly heavy load. I am wondering what I could do at a darwin level to try to trace the process and see why it is hung and won't exit. Maybe then I can formulate some type of solution/workaround. However, to the meat of your question. First, the userspace approach: Secondly, the kernel approach: = Mike _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Firstly, you should ensure that you have filed a bug against this issue with Apple, either via DTS or bugreporter.apple.com depending on your developer status. When the afpserver process is hung, run 'sample' against it and look at the call graphs. There will almost certainly be at least one thread in a system call; this may give you a clue. Read the technote on two-machine debugging, and obtain the debug kit for the build you are running on your servers. When you experience a process hang such as you describe, NMI the machine in question and attach to it with your debug system. Source the kgmacros file in gdb once you're attached and issue the 'showallstacks' command. In the (copious) output, search for threads belonging to the afpserver process, and see if you can work out what subsystem they're stuck in. You may have to generate symbols for kernel extensions; there should be instructions on doing this in the I/O Kit debugging documentation, or as a last resort bug the folks on this list. In the case of the thread stuck in a system call, this will let you track the problem closer to its source. Once you have more incriminating evidence, add it to your bug (or file a new one referencing the old one). This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Catching SIGBUS in Mach exception handler
by leenoori 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <signal.h> #include <stdarg.h> #include <pthread.h> #include <assert.h> #include <mach/mach.h> kern_return_t catch_exception_raise(mach_port_t exception_port, mach_port_t thread, mach_port_t task, exception_type_t exception, exception_data_t code_vector, mach_msg_type_number_t code_count) { fprintf(stderr, "catch_exception_raise %d\n", exception); return KERN_SUCCESS; // loops infinitely... } void test_crash() { id *obj = NULL; *obj = @"foo"; } int main(int argc, char** argv) { setup_mach_exception_port(); test_crash(); return 0; } _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I want to catch SIGBUS signals and perform special handling in my application. I originally tried this using signal() and sigaction() but found that the Mac OS X crash reporter application popped up informing me that my app had crashed even though it continued running (a known issue; see: http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2004/ tn2123.html). A trick that I recall working in pre-Tiger days (forking in the signal handler) no longer works. So in an effort to stop the crash reporter from popping up I tried to set my own Mach exception handler as shown in the code below. This is a reduced demonstration case with all the error checking taken out and extraneous lines removed. In this example I'm merely trying to catch the signal and ignore it; once I get that working I'll implement the actual special handling. But it's not working... Basically, what happens as soon as the SIGBUS is sent the code enters the catch_exception_raise() function. If I return KERN_SUCCESS from that function then I find myself back in the function again (and again and again in an infinite loop) which is not what I would have expected from my reading of the man page: http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.4/xnu-792/osfmk/man/ catch_exception_raise.html "A return value of KERN_SUCCESS indicates that the thread is to continue from the point of exception." I interpret that to mean on the next instruction, the one after the one that provoked the exception, but that doesn't seem to be happening here... So any ideas about what I'm doing wrong? This is Objective-C so stick it in a file like "foo.m", run "cc - framework Foundation foo.m -o foo" and then execute the binary. void *exception_handler(void *arg) { extern boolean_t exc_server(); mach_port_t port = (mach_port_t) arg; mach_msg_server(exc_server, 2048, port, 0); abort(); // without this GCC complains (it doesn't know that mach_msg_server never returns) } void setup_mach_exception_port() { static mach_port_t exception_port = MACH_PORT_NULL; mach_port_allocate(mach_task_self(), MACH_PORT_RIGHT_RECEIVE, &exception_port); mach_port_insert_right(mach_task_self(), exception_port, exception_port, MACH_MSG_TYPE_MAKE_SEND); task_set_exception_ports(mach_task_self(), EXC_MASK_BAD_ACCESS, exception_port, EXCEPTION_DEFAULT, MACHINE_THREAD_STATE); pthread_t returned_thread; pthread_create(&returned_thread, NULL, exception_handler, (void*) exception_port); } This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Process won't exit
by Al Kirkus 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi all. Thoughts? Al _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I run about 10 OSX file servers (AFP) under 10.4.7. Occassionally I see one of the 2 AppleFileServer processes go into an uninterruptible wait state and stop servicing all requests - functionally disconnecting all of its clients. My attempts to kill the process result in it going into a exiting state but the process never actually exits (the longest I waited was 2 days). I have to pull the plug to get the servers back to normal. This happens intermittently (anywhere between 1 and 30+ days apart) on all of my servers that service a fairly heavy load. I am wondering what I could do at a darwin level to try to trace the process and see why it is hung and won't exit. Maybe then I can formulate some type of solution/workaround. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: RAM Cache vs the Pageout Demon
by Michael Smith 24 Oct '06

24 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com --- Michael Smith <msmith(a)freebsd.org> wrote: I think OS X's preemptive pageout to maintain minimum free list (see http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Performance/Conceptual/ ManagingMemory/Articles/AboutMemory.html) is counterproductive, vs waiting for actual free-space demand. You do, eh? Well, let's assume just for the moment that the kernel needs those free pages in order to make forward progress when an application like yours thinks it needs every last page in the system. you can more realistically assess the amount of free memory required to display an image before bringing it into your cache, and thus whether the sum of cached images poses a threat to your working set. Even if OS X wants to grab some pages to maintain its free list, I need it to grab them from inactive processes, not the ones it thinks are inactive in my app. If those tasks are truly more inactive than you, you will already have stolen all the pages from them that you can. What is the actual selection algorithm for pages to be paged out? A strict LRU, or are there qualifiers based on process, priority, etc? The bottom line to all of this is that first you must understand what your application is doing. = Mike _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On Oct 23, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Russ wrote: Untouched pages can be reclaimed at any time by the operating system without penalty. Doing so before necessary causes an avoidable performance loss. I'm not sure what your statement here is in reply to, but since it's wrong, I might as well attempt to clarify and correct the points you seem to be trying to make. 8) An 'untouched' page is a virtual allocation with no physical backing page. I have to assume that what you mean is a clean page (i.e. one that has been touched but whose contents have not been written to). Sadly, there are several costs associated with obtaining clean pages; locking overheads, finding a clean page in the first place, zero filling it - all of these things refute your "without penalty" assertion. It is also not practical or fair to only steal clean pages when you are trying to find a free page; clean pages typically hold important things like program text, filesystem metadata buffers and read-only mapped file data, and evicting these in favour of cleaning less recently-referenced dirty pages can in the case of an application like yours lead to premature code thrashing; code thrash is particularly pernicious because it tends to have poor locality of reference and thus very poor page-in efficiency (clustered pageins notwithstanding). All of this leads to the point that I was trying to convey, which is that the operating system has a good idea about how many free pages it has to hold in reserve in order to satisfy the peak requirements of both realtime code and the pageout path in the case where it must clean pages before returning them to the freelist. Mac OS X does not pre-emptively clean and free pages in the fashion that FreeBSD etc. do; it maintains a very small pool of free pages (no more than a few percent of the physical memory present in the system). If people are running my app on a 2 GB machine, try telling them they can only cache 1 GB because there are 50 background processes they've never heard of that need RAM too. If people buy a 2 GB machine, they expect to be able to use most of it, regardless of the details. That's terribly pugnacious. I would, however, assert that if their 2GB machine performs like a pig because your application is making poor use of all that RAM, perhaps they have a right to be upset about that too? 8) I already have code that can reduce RAM cache if memory gets low. Can you suggest a precise predictive criteria for doing this? If the RAM cache is reduced programatically, the user can see what's happening and the machine stays interactive. If it starts thrashing, UI response goes down the tubes. "Can you teach me how to tell the future"? Obviously, not. But you can make some intelligent guesses about memory pressure based on deviations from your expected response times and shrink your working set to compensate. If you have full control over the environment in which your application runs, then you have a better opportunity to size it accordingly. If you don't, then your entire assertion that the machine belongs to you is invalid, and you need to start thinking about how to make your application a good citizen rather than a resource hog. In the common case, you have no control over what the system's footprint is going to look like on a moment to moment basis; you can see how this is inevitable as soon as you imagine another application with the same expectations running side-by-side with yours. I could probably find out the minimum and current free list sizes, but that is unduly conservative if more memory can be wrung out of other processes. You completely fail to understand the nature of the system here. Physical memory is allotted on an as-needed basis. If another app has physical pages it's because that application needs them; it has run in order to perform necessary work, and that work necessarily touches memory. You don't "wring memory out of other processes". If they need it, they get it. If you need it, you get it. Part of the problem is that if you are playing through 10 or 20 seconds of imagery, you don't get around to it very often, but when you do, you still want it there. If that's the case, then you need to ensure that the system's working set plus the total footprint of those 10-20 seconds worth of images fits in physical RAM. If not, there is no way to keep them around. Another important distinction to make here. Paging out is the act of synchronising a backing store page (file, swap, etc.) with the modified contents held by the cache in RAM. Pageout occurs when a dirty page (one whose contents have been changed vs. the backing store) is being cleaned, typically prior to being zeroed and placed on the freelist, which in turn occurs when the freelist falls below the low water mark. Pageout matters to you because you are pre-rendering early, meaning that your pre-rendered images are all held in dirty pages, and once your working set blows out you have large amounts of dirty memory that has to be cleaned before it can be recycled as free pages. Mac OS X uses a modified two-handed clock algorithm over a single physical memory pool. The most significant variation in your case is that file cache pages enter the list at the head of the inactive list, rather than the active list, in order to bias reclamation in favour of the buffer cache vs. active text/data pages. Process priority factors indirectly inasmuch as a process whose threads runs more often has a greater opportunity to claim physical pages by referencing them. Typically however there tends to be a poor correlation between thread priority and working set size, so LRU wins out over any priority oriented scheme. Furthermore, thread priority is a mutable thing, so there is no good way to know what the relative priority of a thread is when you can only sample its recent history. Don't worry, I've been studying it for several years now. Its performance is widely praised on WinXP, but lags in this area on OS X, something I'm working to rectify. I need to understand what OS X is doing to help. The point that I'm trying to get across is that you are blaming the OS for something that is fundamentally, if indirectly, your own fault. Your app is cannibalising itself simply by using too much physical memory, and you need to understand what it is doing that causes its working set to blow out in such a fashion so that you can stop doing it. It is reasonable (and correct) to assume that Mac OS X is tuned very carefully to support applications with very large memory footprints, and that the folks responsible for that tuning understand both the requirements of that class of applications and how to make the system work well under those loads. Given that it sounds like this is important to you, you might want to see what Apple DTS can offer in the way of feedback tailored to your particular application's behaviour. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: RAM Cache vs the Pageout Demon
by Russ 23 Oct '06

23 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UkGEOnclm3UpCIeuXK/Tyv0DhVglqG6lk+ENOPSYpTzPs3lyYjL3i61oaIJlyrM9ixvYHnrXIma2VOBHnBU3aU62UUE2p1rCU11AZMYX2QlZQqf2YMBxSoguQ+K8iRxDyvyHO66XNksyhxHklEbLgZqNFRffUDiZPNlowPIzQMs= ; --- Michael Smith <msmith(a)freebsd.org> wrote: > > I think OS X's preemptive pageout to maintain minimum free list (see > > http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Performance/Conceptual/ > > ManagingMemory/Articles/AboutMemory.html) > > is counterproductive, vs waiting for actual free-space demand. > > You do, eh? Well, let's assume just for the moment that the kernel > needs those free pages in order to make forward progress when an > application like yours thinks it needs every last page in the system. Untouched pages can be reclaimed at any time by the operating system without penalty. Doing so before necessary causes an avoidable performance loss. If people are running my app on a 2 GB machine, try telling them they can only cache 1 GB because there are 50 background processes they've never heard of that need RAM too. If people buy a 2 GB machine, they expect to be able to use most of it, regardless of the details. > you can more realistically assess the amount of > free memory required to display an image before bringing it into your > cache, and thus whether the sum of cached images poses a threat to > your working set. I already have code that can reduce RAM cache if memory gets low. Can you suggest a precise predictive criteria for doing this? If the RAM cache is reduced programatically, the user can see what's happening and the machine stays interactive. If it starts thrashing, UI response goes down the tubes. I could probably find out the minimum and current free list sizes, but that is unduly conservative if more memory can be wrung out of other processes. > > Even if OS X wants to grab some pages to maintain > > its free list, I need it to grab them from inactive processes, not > > the ones it > > thinks are inactive in my app. > > If those tasks are truly more inactive than you, you will already > have stolen all the pages from them that you can. Part of the problem is that if you are playing through 10 or 20 seconds of imagery, you don't get around to it very often, but when you do, you still want it there. What is the actual selection algorithm for pages to be paged out? A strict LRU, or are there qualifiers based on process, priority, etc? > Without understanding your application, it's difficult to see how you > can justify holding that much unprocessed image data in memory. It's an important advantage to speeding overall workflow. And it is often already partially processed. > In a followup message, you indicated that you are using third-party > image loading libraries, and by this I infer that your interface to > them is along the lines of "render this filename into a buffer". > This robs you of a good deal of control over your working set size; > you can pessimistically assume that the library will consume pages > equal to 2x the size of the file at a minimum. 1x will go straight > to the inactive queue, 1x will go to the active queue. The libraries require working store, yes. But of course it is transient and released (and hopefully reused) once reading the file is done. If the file data is kept in OS X's file cache, at a higher priority than the app's RAM cache, that's clearly a problem. > If you are willing to spend some time analysing these libraries... This is off-topic. The readers include Quicktime itself, for example. The data that is read from the file is not necessarily the same as the data in the RAM cache, it can be worked on substantially, hence the desire to maximize the cache. > Given that you can't cache all of them, it > strikes me as being more sensible to cache many fewer and begin your > image flip speed reduction earlier, with a progressive slowdown while > you are reading ahead/behind. Neither is the app necessarily linear---random frame access is common, which is why they should be in cache to start. > Another point to consider; you say "images can be tens of > megabytes". Do you display images at full resolution, or are you > scaling them for display? They are zoomed/panned for display, but they must be kept 100% in RAM for the processing that is the crux of the application. > The bottom line to all of this is that first you must understand what > your application is doing. Don't worry, I've been studying it for several years now. Its performance is widely praised on WinXP, but lags in this area on OS X, something I'm working to rectify. I need to understand what OS X is doing to help. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Problem when compiling Xprt of X11R7.1
by Peter Dyballa 22 Oct '06

22 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Am 22.10.2006 um 09:16 schrieb Ben Byer: I think I found the cause of your problems compiling Xprt: [...] -- Greetings Pete Make it simple, as simple as possible but no simpler. Albert Einstein _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… If you install that libtool in /usr/local/bin, then run these commands in your xorg-xserver tree: mkdir -p /usr/local/share/aclocal What is this empty directory good for? If you make this directory and set ACLOCAL as below before you make all of the preqrequisites, some of them will place files there that you will need if you ever want to re-run autoconf on any of the packages. (Specifically, in mine I have these files: libtool.m4 ltdl.m4 pkg.m4 xaw.m4 xorg-macros.m4 xorgversion.m4 xtrans.m4 My 'X files' are in /usr/X11R7/share/aclocal. I'll add this component to ACLOCAL for the next try. When I use xorg-server-X11R7.1-1.1.0 without any patches, and try to compile Xprt, I get this: The problem here is in the ordering of the dynamic libraries. If you move them ('-lX11 -lXfont -lm -lfontenc -lfreetype -lz -lXdmcp - lXau') to the end of that line, after libXext.la, it will compile correctly. How do you find this? Which tools might tell to do so? Or is it just experience? (I am trying to compile xorg-server-1.1.99.3 of X11R7.1, that's what 'git status' tells me. And this seems to be a bit 'experimental:' minor changes in environment variables change success of making the lib targets!) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Problem when compiling Xprt of X11R7.1
by Peter O'Gorman 22 Oct '06

22 Oct '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks for putting up a link to your patches Ben! Peter _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On Oct 22, 2006, at 4:16 PM, Ben Byer wrote: Some of the other darwin-dev members (I will let the guilty parties step forward, if they so choose!) have come up with some patches that make the Xserver *almost* work -- it compiles, even runs!, but there is still a lot left to do. I don't know which patch fixes the above problem, but I put the patches up here: http:// homepage.mac.com/ben.byer/.Public/xorg-darwin-patches.tar.bz2 The one that fixes the library ordering is in configure.ac: - XPRINT_LIBS="$XPRINT_LIBS $DIX_LIB $XKB_LIB $XKB_STUB_LIB $XPRINT_EXTENSIONS $MI_LIB $MIEXT_DAMAGE_LIB $CWRAP_LIB $OS_LIB" + XPRINT_LIBS="$DIX_LIB $XKB_LIB $XKB_STUB_LIB $XPRINT_EXTENSIONS $MI_LIB $MIEXT_DAMAGE_LIB $CWRAP_LIB $OS_LIB $XPRINT_LIBS" This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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