July 2007 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Using VFS operations for a given node
by Standard Azi 26 Jul '07

26 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FKDTSU9Ppyjfd/GS/y9ZLTqNrpTadsrb4ndj+Vej9ZkZdR5Do99JwIM0m1DVgtdEOg/JTZFUARG/rU/yPgJjMDBNQ9hvEofMYpNpDFL2ivvWCSeHEXBmYt2AAUUZqPB24ADqzwC4lzNkrRGwyp/SpuEu2ey73ZQpn/Q2akY6PdU= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=jJoJyYpUheAamPthw1C0fEhSaerzGnrzPazgjdGB9PCVszkodROrKXphOrrTuqCWoBGOoMVwVSkhnsiTTXy7AAFLey4z21n1YvJlPcuP7q+6mFrSGD3dCb6/nQeFu9iVBM4iBQFLHTQp0eyd0jCZM45uHgfvpI+BETpe120O920= Hello! The approach you described is obviously *valid* although it's rather complicated compared to simply calling getxattr(). Another concern in this case would be performance.. Hooking all open() calls of which only 20% shall be handled in a different manner, and, for each open() call , communicating with userspace is a bit too much of an overhead - that's why I'd still like to use v_op. On Jul 25, 2007, at 4:52 AM, Standard Azi wrote: >> As a general rule, if you think you want to initiate operations on >> files, file attributes, pathnames etc. from the kernel you have made >> a design error and need to stop and re-evaluate what you are doing. > > That's usually true although I don't see any other method that is more > elegant - maybe you do, so let me explain what I'm trying to do : > > === > - open() is hooked with Kauth > > - if there is some special extended attribute set on the opening file, > handle some security issues before returning a file descriptor, else, > return the proper fd. > === > > Do you see any other way to keep track of the files handled by the > security module? (please note that the extended attribute holds some > meaningful data for the kernel) - open is trapped by a kauth module - the kauth module send a message to a user space daemon that has registered with the kauth module earlier so that the module knows it's there and alive - the user space daemon looks at the extended attribute information, and makes a decision - if the user space daemon has to call any operations on the file that are trapped by the kauth module, then because it has registered with the module, it's operations are simply permitted, rather than recursively calling back out to user space - the user space daemon igures out an answer - the user spce daemon returns the answer to the kauth module - the kauth module permits/denies the operation based on the answer it has received > Sure, now we can question about the purpose of the security module, > why it has to rely on userspace data, etc... but focusing on the > approach I've described, do you see any other solution to keep track > about which files to handle in a special manner? See above. >> In almost every case, what you are trying to do should be handled in >> user space. > > I'd say this is an exception. I'd say it wasn't; most work, particularly work that could take a long time or block things long enough that they get a spinny beach ball/ wheel of fortune/pizza of death/whatever you like to call the cursor for an unresponsive application. -- Terry _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 7/26/07, Terry Lambert <tlambert(a)apple.com> wrote: This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Using VFS operations for a given node
by Terry Lambert 26 Jul '07

26 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com As a general rule, if you think you want to initiate operations on files, file attributes, pathnames etc. from the kernel you have made a design error and need to stop and re-evaluate what you are doing. That's usually true although I don't see any other method that is more elegant - maybe you do, so let me explain what I'm trying to do : === - open() is hooked with Kauth - if there is some special extended attribute set on the opening file, handle some security issues before returning a file descriptor, else, return the proper fd. === Do you see any other way to keep track of the files handled by the security module? (please note that the extended attribute holds some meaningful data for the kernel) - open is trapped by a kauth module - the user space daemon igures out an answer - the user spce daemon returns the answer to the kauth module Sure, now we can question about the purpose of the security module, why it has to rely on userspace data, etc... but focusing on the approach I've described, do you see any other solution to keep track about which files to handle in a special manner? See above. In almost every case, what you are trying to do should be handled in user space. -- Terry _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On Jul 25, 2007, at 4:52 AM, Standard Azi wrote: - the kauth module send a message to a user space daemon that has registered with the kauth module earlier so that the module knows it's there and alive - the user space daemon looks at the extended attribute information, and makes a decision - if the user space daemon has to call any operations on the file that are trapped by the kauth module, then because it has registered with the module, it's operations are simply permitted, rather than recursively calling back out to user space - the kauth module permits/denies the operation based on the answer it has received I'd say this is an exception. I'd say it wasn't; most work, particularly work that could take a long time or block things long enough that they get a spinny beach ball/ wheel of fortune/pizza of death/whatever you like to call the cursor for an unresponsive application. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Using VFS operations for a given nod
by Michael Smith 26 Jul '07

26 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jul 25, 2007, at 12:04 PM, darwin-dev-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: As a general rule, if you think you want to initiate operations on files, file attributes, pathnames etc. from the kernel you have made a design error and need to stop and re-evaluate what you are doing. That's usually true although I don't see any other method that is more elegant - maybe you do, so let me explain what I'm trying to do : === - open() is hooked with Kauth - if there is some special extended attribute set on the opening file, handle some security issues before returning a file descriptor, else, return the proper fd. === Do you see any other way to keep track of the files handled by the security module? (please note that the extended attribute holds some meaningful data for the kernel) Sure, now we can question about the purpose of the security module, why it has to rely on userspace data, etc... but focusing on the approach I've described, do you see any other solution to keep track about which files to handle in a special manner? In almost every case, what you are trying to do should be handled in user space. = Mike _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… When you say "holds some meaningful data for the kernel", I assume that what you mean is that it holds some meaningful data for your decision-making code. You haven't given any sort of criteria here to work with, so of course I can't answer you. I'd say this is an exception. If there was KPI exposed for reading extended attributes, then yes. Unfortunately there is no such KPI exposed, and so you're in a position where you will have to ship your operation out to user space. I would, however, also file an enhancement request at bugreporter.apple.com asking for an interface to do what you want inside the kernel. In your case, providing you're only trying to operate on the file that's the object of the authorisation operation, you're right - your case is a legitimate exception. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Using VFS operations for a given node
by Michael Smith 26 Jul '07

26 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jul 25, 2007, at 12:28 AM, Arvind Dalvi wrote: = Mike _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Then it means, all file I/O needs to be handled in user space..... And if the file I/O needs to be done from or within the kernel, it is done by the file system code (file system kext/driver) correct ? You are correct; file operations should not as a rule be invoked from within the kernel. Any specific design issue/rule for not implementation file I/O from or within the kernel ? The general rule is "unless it has to be inside the kernel, it must be outside". In six-plus years of working on Darwin, I have yet to see a single case where file operations needed to be performed from within the kernel. Almost every case is "we do this on Windows, so of course we should do it on Darwin". p.s. The Windows folks hate it when you do file I/O inside their kernel, too. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Unable to build first project: Can't find UNCUserNotification.h
by Martin Costabel 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Macintosh/20070509) -- Martin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Finlay Dobbie wrote: On 24/07/07, Brian Wagener <spam1(a)forceconstant.com> wrote: Hello, I am new to MacOs development, and am trying to build smbfs package with xcode, but it fails trying to build ui, with can't find UNCUserNotification.h, where should this be, and how do I get xcode to find it? You should probably be using darwinbuild when trying to build Darwin projects. For those (like me) who missed the news about darwinbuild's resurrection and can't find any link to darwinbuild on the macosforge web site or anywhere else, here is a URL: <http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/darwinbuild>. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Using VFS operations for a given node
by Standard Azi 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KsWorDmkb0lfqyfdxG5w3/65FRmB/IeRZZG/ytJ0EwlAR2QXo3fjjf27nOM0XIQ9XKbzPTPX4GV9kJ8FD6LC+jM2W8gTKcvnvkx/MqEze6Ho6/FZROAaXskWhJtaCCq2u/pNmap+w/N9kd12rke5D2eNfqJkZipMCoxkxnRj9xg= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Is3/L2o4nT5U3yalzF3C+zeMwvt+2vFtt/paNDqR5g+pPW0cAb3x1Xzesv/Jx3h/s3SmY85CXMTLOICZ82hlYqhiFG91AyUEbYc+XE5O/wCfzSbGdE58kaGWLWFXVJnp4HbGM/Oh53J5A4SVvC1gDOGN1ngDDSsCJ5GDVmMhm+Q= First of all, thanks for the reply! As a general rule, if you think you want to initiate operations on files, file attributes, pathnames etc. from the kernel you have made a design error and need to stop and re-evaluate what you are doing. That's usually true although I don't see any other method that is more elegant - maybe you do, so let me explain what I'm trying to do : === - open() is hooked with Kauth - if there is some special extended attribute set on the opening file, handle some security issues before returning a file descriptor, else, return the proper fd. === Do you see any other way to keep track of the files handled by the security module? (please note that the extended attribute holds some meaningful data for the kernel) Sure, now we can question about the purpose of the security module, why it has to rely on userspace data, etc... but focusing on the approach I've described, do you see any other solution to keep track about which files to handle in a special manner? In almost every case, what you are trying to do should be handled in user space. I'd say this is an exception. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [darwin-dev] Future for read_random ?
by Alexander von Below 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks a lot! Allow a stupid question: I can do that from Kernel space? Thanks Alex Am 25.07.2007 um 13:25 schrieb Finlay Dobbie: Hello List, in <sys/random.h>, read_random is bracketed with the dreaded __APPLE_API_UNSTABLE If I do not want to risk losing binary compatiblity, which call can I use instead? You open /dev/random and read from that instead. See man 4 random. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 25/07/07, Alexander v. Below <below(a)mac.com> wrote: -- Finlay This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [darwin-dev] Future for read_random ?
by Finlay Dobbie 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=dk5yiCp00Pw9P7HHrggMzSpcV662zH9Kd9MknnWEMqg//nAxNtCSzhzktBhiAGuZL26HekwnfKyxPwtuVteE5xcQFIjr4odLoSYRIAdqz0+9U2UlJKYXzOwnZ6QBlH91DeE2tPAwDTC9F4+Py98elDvvyvk1i0ltW7N24Xe/Wfc= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=VmlSPrV7UXTvpoKnGK1QtgIselasDR3z+4AvyrMenOJcnf6ZzGkWUWuDMA82k76pwHJ4l+/6GQyqzGNJbQf9JxlC7yJdWSN8BQbdA2ad+5vj4+eKw5cvHyhmi1iVxpaNdEino4v/xGUsN4+cXcDSyqNxAkgxN1oaP+n0qnHWTdk= On 25/07/07, Alexander v. Below <below(a)mac.com> wrote: > Hello List, > > in <sys/random.h>, read_random is bracketed with the dreaded > __APPLE_API_UNSTABLE > > If I do not want to risk losing binary compatiblity, which call can I > use instead? You can open... -- Finlay _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 25/07/07, Finlay Dobbie <finlay.dobbie(a)gmail.com> wrote: You open /dev/random and read from that instead. See man 4 random. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [darwin-dev] Future for read_random ?
by Finlay Dobbie 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=TSh3YbVen1Nq9/csiT9S8cq5duF4NRSokcNYtYep+jCPtzNAmMnsfHbFYbcGs3qBKr/VhVUeeBOMzHzQQfCmrOU5z3peu8Jpqf+5T17ZHiqMNdmqYCvEzll11wm0n9AXWUspBQJM6OTXc/Lp7Gu1IT4TWAHSycXKFg94+OCwS2U= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=jzNoBcPzN7gXj7z4nIBD++DWWqRP3T7/LgVCqP+lQrjbs0caHKnTQufGUMRSrdBACWh2s9mFIoZBOHArkej06ikXETpfw0BlHuZnd0X2XkSmwbfdvaw2OqGioBGIs9racJeHdqCGDvjMIeCnEgAEZ4uqDTqYupVN9pyjVc1vGTs= Hello List, in <sys/random.h>, read_random is bracketed with the dreaded __APPLE_API_UNSTABLE If I do not want to risk losing binary compatiblity, which call can I use instead? You open /dev/random and read from that instead. See man 4 random. -- Finlay _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 25/07/07, Alexander v. Below <below(a)mac.com> wrote: This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Unable to build first project: Can't find UNCUserNotification.h
by Finlay Dobbie 25 Jul '07

25 Jul '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=UQX0qK3GRpfZOZDZYw9H+/YrnpwHTzZd4D7Myahp7qP9SWS/7J9NGe/fUzrFocgRXj3mrOQfPogJcng7Zu6CQnO0lNWpiHXrw7ed3jDtAsuzYBCrAHaFsTkPzL2i2v8SiN2D/Th8DkDyz4BJzXuM8sjNT5M9ZnHBZUDF4O0ey94= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hYXbP36HUuA13r1wCLK86bP7GWrbc5MHO1Jxu9biFhVF7ta4BiIQjB6oMTvmNotsdPSitJxgo4whw+Pq0HxP8cHCyWE6+XlZPWcQdk5JC2/XfDhMy34YFcnC6/wHLD5nruj3ihsWCl91Ax6cBx6wfYeMRLyr0D7XXiuHSo3ppXw= Hello, I am new to MacOs development, and am trying to build smbfs package with xcode, but it fails trying to build ui, with can't find UNCUserNotification.h, where should this be, and how do I get xcode to find it? You should probably be using darwinbuild when trying to build Darwin projects. -- Finlay _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 24/07/07, Brian Wagener <spam1(a)forceconstant.com> wrote: This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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