January 2008 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Cancel Sleep
by Matt Burnett 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=5doKKgSi49SHjlcN2XDG0KVycZNEZlDcumufwG2kqy0=; b=LclxmfRnLWpZPyaePmG/g2wUnG3lop768qy0AzKzgydO8HQGEjoTF0qmuKGo1bQrVSyefiTuP0LKDsRKftTxfDALq1hZVw0Qosntth2135hgxeLr9aooKXg1cCOJiCCyAPKBuQcj+APBL00hbfYXfB3BCB5SBSVSgLPu1YnVvOM= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=gjt2wxw57rNW7rNxWZeoqDSxdiQzii/apmeD+1KyqX7LMaAtg74ueLrQ8hsNkyg+LEwmF/bLW7hgCRhQtbG7SXQhP7Pk5V6PA5dQQZPNKhQur1BU+QkjwKkbJqf5m9CcfvYmJQJxCSVDiBVX+etrI/8NXfMStp98CWVZcnzNv7M= On Jan 31, 2008, at 4:17 PM, Marc Epard wrote: On Jan 31, 2008, at 3:51 PM, Matt Burnett wrote: Your battery runs down and the machine gets very hot inside your bag. -Marc _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… As I said in my first email, the program could check the remaining battery level, the menu bar item can do this, i would assume other software can too. You can estimate the time to completion for most actions, compare that with the battery time remaining, and you know whether or not to delay sleep. Heat isnt a major, if your worried about over heating then you can monitor the temperature sensors. One of the fans in my macbook pro died, i use it in bed all the time, it rests on top of a down comforter which partially blocks the air vents. It gets hot but still runs while playing video games (WoW) under nearly a heavy load. I dont see a copy over the network with the screen closed being any worse, especially if you have it under your arm as i said in my 2nd email. I've had my old macbook crash several going to sleep, i put it in my air tight zero halliburton dz3 case. It never seemed too hot when i took it back out on the few occasions when the battery didnt run out. What do you mean by "Making the system work "well enough" in this context is much harder..."? The system was working fine before the lid is closed, with a external monitor the system still works fine with the screen closed. I dont see any reason why the system cant continue to run with the main screen disabled, i've ran other macs headless. I dont see why the system couldnt operate just fine being carried around under my arm. Could you please give a example. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Cancel Sleep
by Marc Epard 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jan 31, 2008, at 3:51 PM, Matt Burnett wrote: Your battery runs down and the machine gets very hot inside your bag. -Marc _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… What do you mean by "Making the system work "well enough" in this context is much harder..."? The system was working fine before the lid is closed, with a external monitor the system still works fine with the screen closed. I dont see any reason why the system cant continue to run with the main screen disabled, i've ran other macs headless. I dont see why the system couldnt operate just fine being carried around under my arm. Could you please give a example. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Cancel Sleep
by Matt Burnett 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=60J4CXEGj1ahG8DlbefCOR4pGg5A5YRF7OatO5GDNp0=; b=GzzoOcbIu9MU1r3+yYbQa0BQHEtvpOAGJ4kuUwlhCwwkChNAMxhntUzBjuQlVGtp4u7nkuWaFQceV6Vk47jg8aVt/2TmyMQ3f4tLgAF/y5ZfFvJYntYyI4zUuIk9mNgBTUw/ixBHzaC1QsbiTE3wfyhh9pcr4tc/VYcwdTkuaH8= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=SIx9YGbmt12HAFvqkbkiRNR//jvqHWSN+jqh7RIHvRk8x458nmZLoziNqs3s+hOpuEpGa614WFglYIPjs6QxE1tNb1o/wkH03z/L0Eogcj0FZUTp0O3Wr45SSSSvrZDX5eBN2FVQ3u4vF952/2OqCxSv3VILTK/WRxdMAAaBpNk= You don't appear to get it. However: c) The user has told the system to sleep. It should sleep. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… RE a): OS X behaves like this for shutdown, why not sleep? OS shutdowns are delayed or canceled all the time by user applications. What if I have a unsaved document open in TextEdit and choose shutdown, if i take no further action the shutdown will be canceled because i never interacted with the save dialog in TextEdit. If i click the cancel button in the save dialog, the shutdown is canceled too. As i said previously, it would be obvious to the user. The sleep LED wouldn't pulse, user opens laptop and sees a dialog similar to canceled shutdown dialog. RE b): What do you mean by "Making the system work "well enough" in this context is much harder..."? The system was working fine before the lid is closed, with a external monitor the system still works fine with the screen closed. I dont see any reason why the system cant continue to run with the main screen disabled, i've ran other macs headless. I dont see why the system couldnt operate just fine being carried around under my arm. Could you please give a example. RE c): I told my system to shutdown, TextEdit canceled the shutdown. Why should sleep be different? On Jan 31, 2008, at 2:28 PM, Michael Smith wrote: Yes, in *some* situations the system could defy the user's explicit instruction to go to sleep and go on with whatever it was doing. a) This behaviour won't be consistent, and it won't be obvious to the average user why it's not consistent. b) Making the system work "well enough" in this context is much harder than you can possibly imagine. You can't think of "the system" as a monolithic entity; there are dozens of components who each have dependencies, and you'd have to have some way of matching the possibly degraded state of the system to the components depended on for the current set of operations and asserting that they were going to remain operational... = Mike This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Cancel Sleep
by Uli Kusterer 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com If the user performs the "normal" sleep sequence for a laptop: - closes the lid - removes the network cable, power cable, etc. - places the laptop into a laptop bag I defy you to find a means of either a) warning the user b) completing the copy Cheers, -- M. Uli Kusterer "The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..." http://www.zathras.de _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 31.01.2008, at 04:15, Michael Smith wrote: Well, I'd be happy already if the warning came up when the user chooses the "Sleep" menu item. Oh, sure there is. As soon as the lid closes, you could play a short warning sound if apps have registered with the OS that they'd prefer not being put to sleep. Yes, the user would have to learn what the sound means, but as long as quickly re-opening the lid prevents the sleep action, the user would have enough forgiveness. that does not violate other user preferences (speech off, sound off, no bluetooth, inbuilt taser disabled, etc.) Not everyone has the sound off. And even if the sound wasn't played when volume is muted (it isn't audible when headphones are plugged into the Mac but not the user's ears either), it would still be a huge improvement. Not to mention Macs have this really neat light that shows whether it's running or asleep, which could blink. An earlier poster cited Raskin's policy of "forgiveness", but made the common mistake of assuming that being forgiving means doing what a singular individual (in this case, the poster) wants, rather than picking a policy that does the least harm in a wide range of situations. Actually, I can live with it. I'm a geek, I've learned to not put my Mac to sleep while it's busy. What I can't live with is hundreds of users knocking on my door and complaining... and IMHO they're right to complain, I should be warning them. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: programmatically adding MIME types from an installer
by Uli Kusterer 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Just a guess, though. Cheers, -- M. Uli Kusterer "The Witnesses of TeachText are everywhere..." http://www.zathras.de _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 04.01.2008, at 02:15, John Zorko wrote: Wow, this helps quite a lot -- many thanks! Since this is WebKit, i'm assuming it's Safari-specific i.e. i'll have to do it a different way for Firefox (XPCOM, here I come)? It may also be worth to check whether a newer Firefox version will support WebKit's way of doing things. With Mozilla moving to native Cocoa controls for their next version, that might not be so unlikely anymore, and you might get away with not explicitly supporting Firefox at all. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: screen clobbers PATH
by Martin Costabel 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) Juan Manuel Palacios wrote: [] $[jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](666/0,1) -> login -pflq login: jmpp I tried to run it as root (via sudo) and got -- Martin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… All the login(1) flags you mention are properly documented in its Leopard man page. In a nutshell: I am feeling stupid. I read this man page on a machine where I had thought I had purged all the old Tiger man pages the Leopard installer left there, but this one had apparently escaped the cleaning action. [] So I agree the questionable flag is indeed -l, but it doesn't seem to me like some kind of KGB dark sekret. Also: login: PAM Error (line 396): Cannot make/remove an entry for the specified session So, in conclusion, login(1)'s -l flag works for me without using the _vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user() symbol, but /usr/bin/screen still clobbers my PATH.... /me scratches head! Hope these help as cues to further research ;-) Regards,... You are right. So the only remaining suspect is the _vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user() function, apparently coming from launchd. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: screen clobbers PATH
by Juan Manuel Palacios 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jan 31, 2008, at 3:48 AM, Martin Costabel wrote: Juan Manuel Palacios wrote: [] The evidence: 1) In screen.c, there is a line, conditioned on #ifdef __APPLE__ if (_vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user(real_uid, "Background") != NULL) $[jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](666/0,1) -> login -pflq login: jmpp $[jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](1/0,0) -> exit $[jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](667/0,1) -> [jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](703/0 0,3) -> which screen /usr/bin/screen $[jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](705/0 0,3) -> which login /usr/bin/login Hope these help as cues to further research ;-) Regards,... -jmpp -- Martin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I don't have a solution to the problem, but at least a few words of comfort telling you that I'm also experiencing the exact same problem: Tiger's screen, OK; MacPorts' screen, OK; Leopard's screen, no PATH. I have to supply the full path to whatever program I want to run under Leopard's screen, otherwise I get not found errors. Thanks. I have now looked some more at the source code, in particular at the Apple-specific patches, and I am now seeing the point where the deed is done. Again, not having looked at the source code myself, I can only follow your lead. But I am hitting a wall there. To me (but what do I know) it looks like there is some private undocumented code at work here, something that smells of Solaris; but that's about the extent of what I am understanding. That function _vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user comes from a private header vproc_private.h, and I haven't found it documented. 2) in windows.c, there is code replacing execve by a call to /usr/ bin/login with the flags "-pflq". Indeed, if you run /usr/bin/screen on Leopard and look at the started processes with 'ps x', you see a process "login -pflq". Now the "-l" flag to login is nowhere documented, as far as I can see. These two things play together: - If you only remove 1 and leave 2 in place, screen does not work, it quits immediately. If you remove both of them, you get standard screen behavior with the usual unclobbered PATH and no additional login process. - If you leave 1 and 2 in place and only remove the "l" flag from "- pflq", you get an unclobbered PATH, too. - I was not able to test "login -pflq" at the command line, it gives an error message. This seems to hint that this flag in 2 needs 1 for running. All the login(1) flags you mention are properly documented in its Leopard man page. In a nutshell: -p don't start with a clean environment: presumably forces login(1) to inherit that of the calling shell, which should contain the customized PATH; -f don't prompt for password; -l tell the executed program that they are *not* under a login session: not too sure about the effect of this, maybe it keeps login(1) from re-reading shell config files and thus overwriting the environment (consistent with -p above), or maybe it wipes the environment clean and keeps the executed program from inheriting any settings at all (would conflict with -p above); -q quiet operation; So I agree the questionable flag is indeed -l, but it doesn't seem to me like some kind of KGB dark sekret. Also: So, maybe the -l flag does not need _vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user().... or maybe login(1) already has that symbol? Lets see: $[jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](704/0,3) -> nm -m /usr/bin/screen | grep _vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user (undefined [lazy bound]) external __vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user (from libSystem) $[jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](706/0,3) -> nm -m /usr/bin/login | grep _vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user $[jmpp @MacBookPro: MacPorts](707/0 1,3) -> So, in conclusion, login(1)'s -l flag works for me without using the _vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user() symbol, but /usr/bin/screen still clobbers my PATH.... /me scratches head! In conclusion, the cause of this problem seems to be an undocumented "feature" of Leopard's /usr/bin/login that is used by Apple's variant of /usr/bin/screen. Why they are doing this, I cannot imagine. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Darwin 8.11 and 9.1 Source
by Axel Luttgens 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 On 31/01/08 4:25, William Siegrist wrote: Fine! Thanks a lot, Bill. Anxiously awaiting your next notice... :-) Axel _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… The following projects have been posted to http://www.opensource.apple.com : AppleRAID-3.0.19 IOI2CFamily-111.0.2 JavaScriptCore-5523.10.3 dyld-46.16 msdosfs-135 objc4-371 We're still working on a few projects and we'll post those when they are ready. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: screen clobbers PATH
by Martin Costabel 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Macintosh/20050317) Juan Manuel Palacios wrote: [] The evidence: 1) In screen.c, there is a line, conditioned on #ifdef __APPLE__ if (_vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user(real_uid, "Background") != NULL) -- Martin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I don't have a solution to the problem, but at least a few words of comfort telling you that I'm also experiencing the exact same problem: Tiger's screen, OK; MacPorts' screen, OK; Leopard's screen, no PATH. I have to supply the full path to whatever program I want to run under Leopard's screen, otherwise I get not found errors. Thanks. I have now looked some more at the source code, in particular at the Apple-specific patches, and I am now seeing the point where the deed is done. But I am hitting a wall there. To me (but what do I know) it looks like there is some private undocumented code at work here, something that smells of Solaris; but that's about the extent of what I am understanding. That function _vprocmgr_move_subset_to_user comes from a private header vproc_private.h, and I haven't found it documented. 2) in windows.c, there is code replacing execve by a call to /usr/bin/login with the flags "-pflq". Indeed, if you run /usr/bin/screen on Leopard and look at the started processes with 'ps x', you see a process "login -pflq". Now the "-l" flag to login is nowhere documented, as far as I can see. These two things play together: - If you only remove 1 and leave 2 in place, screen does not work, it quits immediately. If you remove both of them, you get standard screen behavior with the usual unclobbered PATH and no additional login process. - If you leave 1 and 2 in place and only remove the "l" flag from "-pflq", you get an unclobbered PATH, too. - I was not able to test "login -pflq" at the command line, it gives an error message. This seems to hint that this flag in 2 needs 1 for running. In conclusion, the cause of this problem seems to be an undocumented "feature" of Leopard's /usr/bin/login that is used by Apple's variant of /usr/bin/screen. Why they are doing this, I cannot imagine. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Darwin 8.11 and 9.1 Source
by Rosyna 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks for posting the update notification to the list. On Jan 30, 2008, at 8:25 PM, William Siegrist wrote: AppleRAID-3.0.19 IOI2CFamily-111.0.2 JavaScriptCore-5523.10.3 dyld-46.16 msdosfs-135 objc4-371 --- Sincerely, Rosyna Keller Technical Support/Carbon troll/Always needs a hug Unsanity: Unsane Tools for Insanely Great People It's either this, or imagining Phil Schiller in a thong. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Total yayness. I can finally confirm (via source) that the bug I filed on dyld is fixed in 10.4.11 and a different bug I filed (but was marked as a dupe) was also fixed in 10.4.11 Now the CF and CFNet are the only two things left to be posted that I wish to make out with in a corner. The following projects have been posted to http://www.opensource.apple.com : We're still working on a few projects and we'll post those when they are ready. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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