site_archiver@lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev@lists.apple.com User-agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) Peter -- Peter O'Gorman - http://www.pogma.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.appl... Hi, First a note that this is a whine. I know it is. But I find myself looking at webkit <http://webkit.opendarwin.org> and it is making me remember the day... Webkit is making use of opendarwin's bugzilla, even for bugs reported by team members. Webkit has a live cvs repository available to all. Webkit developers discuss things openly on open mailing lists. The project, at the moment is truly open. This is good stuff. But, then I remember. Darwin used to have an open bug system where everyone could view opensource bugs. Darwin used to have a mostly live cvs repository that everyone could use to check out almost-up-to-date sources. Darwin used to even have non-Apple committers. Now, of course, we get source tarballs. We do get them on-time, and mostly complete, which is good. But we don't get any input into the development of the operating system. We do not get any opportunity to help. There are a number of features included in mac os x 10.4 that I would have liked to have seen argued/discussed, but there was no forum to do so, so the discussion remained internal to Apple, and the result, while good, could have been better. There is currently no reason for any non-Apple person to start hacking on darwin. External opensource projects are included in the OS, it is true. But many of these external projects have to look at the opensource tarballs to see how to get their projects building/running on a new darwin version. This is hardly an opensource developers dream. Oh well. I'm told that writing this will accomplish nothing. I'll simply be flamed. Whatever. I'm happy to see that at least some people at Apple are considering opensource. Thanks webkit. This email sent to site_archiver@lists.apple.com