December 2004 - Darwin-kernel

Re: UDF 2.0 Support, Hitachi DZMV550A Video Camera
by John Davidorff Pell 30 Dec '04

30 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com :-) JP On 30 Dec 2004, at 06:09, Daryl Warkentin wrote: I can't see it taking too long for Apple to release an update as even the Apple supported firewire cameras will likely move to UDF 2.0, so I will wait. But ... what is stopping someone from porting drivers from other OSes and adding them in as "binary" drivers? Has this been tried? This method would remove much of the worry about licences and provide support for a lot of devices. On Wed, 2004-12-29 at 16:57, John Davidorff Pell wrote: JP Thanks in advance. This email sent to johnpell(a)mac.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com The driver architecture on almost all platforms I know of is quite different from almost all others, so porting a driver is a lot more work than porting a user-land app. That said, Apple's *nix uses a kernel architecture that is not very similar to other *nix, like linux or *BSD: it uses the mach kernel, with most of the FreeBSD kernel running on top of that. The driver support part of the FreeBSD kernel is not included in that "most". Apple's mach kernel uses a driver support framework named IOKit, which is IMHO much easier and better for developing and deploying drivers, and their kernel extension system makes everything "just work". Of course, that means that /porting/ drivers becomes nigh impossible, because it would require a near-complete rewrite. There has been talk about writing a "driver driver": an IOkit driver that is really just a wrapper around a *BSD or Linux driver, allowing for very simple porting. Nobody has gotten around to it, and I doubt they will because I think its a bit harder to do than it sounds. [soapBox] I know this is all very annoying. I think that apple should release quite a bit more of its code as open source. Using the correct licensing they shouldn't have to worry about another corporation stealing code, and it shouldn't matter that much because much of it is either strait-forward-but-time-consuming, or in ObjC. One of my own pet-peeves is the fact that the ASPL CoreFoundation is not, nor even compatible with, Apple's shipped CoreFoundation. They also don't include any build method for their Darwin source code releases. I think that Apple should move in the direction of making MacOSX a careful super-set of Darwin, and make Darwin 100% free. I've also noticed that Apple tends to ignore OpenDarwin. They've had enhancements in their patchsets for years that never make it into an official Darwin release. Now, they're behind because their work consists primarily of forward-porting patches. [/soapBox] There may be, however, some legal reason that some drivers are binary-only. If Apple did not write the code, and are licensees of it, then they simply do not have the option of releasing it. In this case, they should bite the bullet and re-code the strait-forward-but-time-consuming parts, or let the Darwin/OpenDarwin community know and hope they do it (and make it clear that a driver created in such a way *would* make it back into an official release). In order to "have at it" you would need to write entirely new drivers. The apple versions are binary-only, just like they told you on the OpenDarwin list. :-) P.S. I would bet that a future release of Mac OS X will have support for UDF 2, so your wait shouldn't be too long. On 29 Dec 2004, at 07:39, Daryl Warkentin wrote: First the quick. Will support for version 2.0 of the UDF file system be added soon? If not, can it be worked on by outsiders (i.e. me)? I understand the UDF source code has not been released. Now the long. I am trying to mount my new video camera as a USB mass storage device. The camera is detected and assigned /dev/disk1, but can not be mounted, automatically, or manually. mount_udf's man page tells me version 1.5 is supported but 2.0 is not. Linux 2.6 mounts the camera just fine, which I am assuming is due to the fact that it supports UDF 2.0. If there are no immediate plans to add support for 2.0 I would be willing to have at it. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/johnpell% 40mac.com -- "To me consensus seems to be: the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values, and policies in search of something in which no one believes, but to which no one objects." -- Margaret Thatcher -- "... was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort-of Sun-God robes, on a pyramid, with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you? ... Why am I the only one who has that dream?" smime.p7s

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Re: UDF 2.0 Support, Hitachi DZMV550A Video Camera
by chuck remes 30 Dec '04

30 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com On Dec 30, 2004, at 8:09 AM, Daryl Warkentin wrote: I can't see it taking too long for Apple to release an update as even the Apple supported firewire cameras will likely move to UDF 2.0, so I will wait. But ... what is stopping someone from porting drivers from other OSes and adding them in as "binary" drivers? Has this been tried? This method would remove much of the worry about licences and provide support for a lot of devices. In order to "have at it" you would need to write entirely new drivers. The apple versions are binary-only, just like they told you on the OpenDarwin list. :-) JP P.S. I would bet that a future release of Mac OS X will have support for UDF 2, so your wait shouldn't be too long. On 29 Dec 2004, at 07:39, Daryl Warkentin wrote: cr _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… On Wed, 2004-12-29 at 16:57, John Davidorff Pell wrote: The driver model (IOKit) for darwin/OSX is sufficiently different from other OSs that doing a simple port as you describe is anything but simple. While a good chunk of the "logic" in each driver could be ported over, all the code that hooks that logic into the OS would need to be replaced with the IOKit framework. Easier said than done. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: UDF 2.0 Support, Hitachi DZMV550A Video Camera
by Daryl Warkentin 30 Dec '04

30 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com I can't see it taking too long for Apple to release an update as even the Apple supported firewire cameras will likely move to UDF 2.0, so I will wait. But ... what is stopping someone from porting drivers from other OSes and adding them in as "binary" drivers? Has this been tried? This method would remove much of the worry about licences and provide support for a lot of devices. On Wed, 2004-12-29 at 16:57, John Davidorff Pell wrote: > In order to "have at it" you would need to write entirely new drivers. > The apple versions are binary-only, just like they told you on the > OpenDarwin list. :-) > > JP > > P.S. I would bet that a future release of Mac OS X will have support > for UDF 2, so your wait shouldn't be too long. On 29 Dec 2004, at > 07:39, Daryl Warkentin wrote: > > > > > First the quick. Will support for version 2.0 of the UDF file system be > > added soon? If not, can it be worked on by outsiders (i.e. me)? I > > understand the UDF source code has not been released. > > > > Now the long. I am trying to mount my new video camera as a USB mass > > storage device. The camera is detected and assigned /dev/disk1, but can > > not be mounted, automatically, or manually. mount_udf's man page tells > > me version 1.5 is supported but 2.0 is not. Linux 2.6 mounts the camera > > just fine, which I am assuming is due to the fact that it supports UDF > > 2.0. If there are no immediate plans to add support for 2.0 I would be > > willing to have at it. > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > > Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/johnpell%40mac.com > > > > This email sent to johnpell(a)mac.com > > > -- > "To me consensus seems to be: the process of abandoning all beliefs, > principles, values, and policies in search of something in which no one > believes, but to which no one objects." -- Margaret Thatcher > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: UDF 2.0 Support, Hitachi DZMV550A Video Camera
by Daryl Warkentin 30 Dec '04

30 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com On Wed, 2004-12-29 at 10:24, Justin Walker wrote: > On Dec 29, 2004, at 7:39, Daryl Warkentin wrote: > > > First the quick. Will support for version 2.0 of the UDF file system be > > added soon? If not, can it be worked on by outsiders (i.e. me)? I > > understand the UDF source code has not been released. > > Can't help with your camera problems, but: > 1) This list is for developers to interact with one another. It is not > a list for communicating with Apple, so you won't get any answers to > your questions above. You may get opinions (we have lots, and are more > than happy to share), even from Apple employees, but if you want real > answers to these questions, you will have to contact Apple directly. I thought this might be a development issue. Thanks for the info. > 2) Apple does not, typically, discuss future plans and schedules on > these lists. I haven't seen any recent discussions of UDF, but you can > search the archives for the lists, and Apple's website, for answers. Doesn't seem to be anything but I will see what else I can find. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: UDF 2.0 Support, Hitachi DZMV550A Video Camera
by John Davidorff Pell 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com JP First the quick. Will support for version 2.0 of the UDF file system be added soon? If not, can it be worked on by outsiders (i.e. me)? I understand the UDF source code has not been released. Now the long. I am trying to mount my new video camera as a USB mass storage device. The camera is detected and assigned /dev/disk1, but can not be mounted, automatically, or manually. mount_udf's man page tells me version 1.5 is supported but 2.0 is not. Linux 2.6 mounts the camera just fine, which I am assuming is due to the fact that it supports UDF 2.0. If there are no immediate plans to add support for 2.0 I would be willing to have at it. Thanks in advance. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/johnpell%40mac.com This email sent to johnpell(a)mac.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com In order to "have at it" you would need to write entirely new drivers. The apple versions are binary-only, just like they told you on the OpenDarwin list. :-) P.S. I would bet that a future release of Mac OS X will have support for UDF 2, so your wait shouldn't be too long. On 29 Dec 2004, at 07:39, Daryl Warkentin wrote: -- "To me consensus seems to be: the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values, and policies in search of something in which no one believes, but to which no one objects." -- Margaret Thatcher smime.p7s

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Re: UDF 2.0 Support, Hitachi DZMV550A Video Camera
by Justin Walker 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com On Dec 29, 2004, at 7:39, Daryl Warkentin wrote: First the quick. Will support for version 2.0 of the UDF file system be added soon? If not, can it be worked on by outsiders (i.e. me)? I understand the UDF source code has not been released. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Men are from Earth. | Women are from Earth. | Deal with it. *--------------------------------------*-------------------------------* _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… Can't help with your camera problems, but: 1) This list is for developers to interact with one another. It is not a list for communicating with Apple, so you won't get any answers to your questions above. You may get opinions (we have lots, and are more than happy to share), even from Apple employees, but if you want real answers to these questions, you will have to contact Apple directly. 2) Apple does not, typically, discuss future plans and schedules on these lists. I haven't seen any recent discussions of UDF, but you can search the archives for the lists, and Apple's website, for answers. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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UDF 2.0 Support, Hitachi DZMV550A Video Camera
by Daryl Warkentin 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com First the quick. Will support for version 2.0 of the UDF file system be added soon? If not, can it be worked on by outsiders (i.e. me)? I understand the UDF source code has not been released. Now the long. I am trying to mount my new video camera as a USB mass storage device. The camera is detected and assigned /dev/disk1, but can not be mounted, automatically, or manually. mount_udf's man page tells me version 1.5 is supported but 2.0 is not. Linux 2.6 mounts the camera just fine, which I am assuming is due to the fact that it supports UDF 2.0. If there are no immediate plans to add support for 2.0 I would be willing to have at it. Thanks in advance. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Interception of write system call at block level and not at FS level
by Yogesh P 28 Dec '04

28 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com HI, I would like to implement a OSX file system call interception such as write call at block level and not at file system level(below FS level). I would like to control this call by overwriting this call for a fraction of second so that i can copy out the data block to the other location for which this write call is. Any advice, help, pointers, sample code etc would be much appreciated. Thanks, YOGESH PAHILWAN (SOFTWARE ENGINNER) S P Software Technologies (I) Pvt. Ltd. (An ISO 9001:2000 Company) Pune, Maharashtra, India - 411 004. Tel : 91-20-4006154, 4006983, 4007503. Fax : 91-20-4006153. Email : pahilwan.yogesh(a)spsoftindia.com Visit us at : www.spsoftindia.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: file last access time late sync
by Alain Bench 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Mail-followup-to: Darwin kernel ml <darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com> User-agent: Mutt/1.4i-ja.1 On Wednesday, December 22, 2004 at 12:46:29 PM -0800, John Davidorff Pell wrote: > On 15 Dec 2004, at 13:47, Alain Bench wrote: >> Some people using Darwin 7.6.0 and HFS+ journaled filesystem have a >> problem where a file's last access time is not updated immediately on >> a file read. > I've experienced a problem with TAR reporting that a file has changed > while being read, when I know that it hasn't. Could this be related to > this bug? I don't know. It's possible, as tar manipulates atime. A thread about "delayed updates to file-access time" on the newsgroup comp.sys.mac.system gives updated infos, see: <URL:http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=32onijF3pr7geU1%40individual.net> - MacOS 10.3.7 also has the problem. - Previous atime matters: If month old, no problem. If minutes or some days old, problem. - Contrary to what I said, atime is updated to the wrong time of update, not to time of file access. Atime ends at access plus delay. - When problem, delay seems random from 20 seconds to 5 minutes. Merry Christmas! Alain. -- How to Report Bugs Effectively <URL:http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: strange panic, debugging help wanted..
by Matt Jaffa 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com <http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2004/tn2118.html> Matt On Dec 22, 2004, at 7:03 AM, Andrew Gallatin wrote: The crash behaviour itself is very strange. The guy on site (machines are 3K miles from me) told me one crashed machine was scrolling in an infinate loop (he watched it for 10 minutes) printing register dumps. The latest panic.log I've gotten is very strange, with the stack trace on the panic'ed CPU always in what appears to be trap handling code. Here is the only panic log I've been able to get: Tue Dec 21 18:08:48 2004 Kernel version: Darwin Kernel Version 7.4.0: Wed May 12 16:58:24 PDT 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.7.7.obj~7/RELEASE_PPC Kernel version: Darwin Kernel Version 7.4.0: Wed May 12 16:58:24 PDT 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.7.7.obj~7/RELEASE_PPC I have the feeling that this is more of a "collateral damage" sort of panic, and the real problem has corrupted some state badly enough that any information regarding the real panic or exception is lost. Am I correct? Any suggestions on how to debug this? I'm setting up kernel dumps now, but I don't have much hope that I'll get one. Thanks, This email sent to matt(a)knowligent.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… The best debugging tool is where you have the remote machine when it panics if it is wired in through ethernet it can dump its kernel stuff to a remote machine. Then using this core with gdb you can find the exact line it crashed. Our shop runs an automated "tinderbox" where a number of machines re-load our driver and run a series of QA tests each time a developer commits something to our source tree. In the last few days, some changes (probably changes in our driver) have caused our G5s to start crashing randomly. Since the crashes are random, they are hard to track down to a specific commit. Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 1): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x00000000000000D4 PC=0x0 00000000002CAE8 Latest crash info for cpu 1: Exception state (sv=0x1DD39000) PC=0x0002CAE8; MSR=0x00001030; DAR=0x000000D4; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0002 CAD8; R1=0x0CC33DB0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access) Backtrace: 0x0002CAD8 0x0002C8A8 0x0002C870 Proceeding back via exception chain: Exception state (sv=0x1DD39000) previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping... Exception state (sv=0x009D8500) PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x0000 0000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown) panic(cpu 1): 0x300 - Data access Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1: Backtrace: 0x0008391C 0x00083E00 0x0001EDA4 0x00090E60 0x0009426C Proceeding back via exception chain: Exception state (sv=0x1DD39000) PC=0x0002CAE8; MSR=0x00001030; DAR=0x000000D4; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0002 CAD8; R1=0x0CC33DB0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access) Backtrace: 0x0002CAD8 0x0002C8A8 0x0002C870 Exception state (sv=0x009D8500) PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x0000 0000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown) Drew _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/ matt%40knowligent.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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