March 2008 - Darwin-kernel - lists.apple.com

08 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=8rxiqFZbF+uT6l5DrVvf0vUZv9/m9+HIYzm7LNluX3w=; b=KKZGXzjoSfjMYqTpsg8lDKC+dQjY0MD38kLlRzOQS1/Da2eMLzfCXTGddfvG/6tckN2PfQSvodJgLuCmNBGXCz9vjAotGnNs8Wof4l6jUW39qDS1BkTDEo0Y29Cr+0AVY0JYyXOHZZj0PVLa4nLYs+3A0DRURsEIQo0Y2lxpY88= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=M/tL4Mo8tfm27P/mk5VQDpVxqRJz+6NBsDz1tsG36yAR5+m93C45dCXTevbQgPiYUpno5/H/IgWMR6q7fSrTPVcMwerxdggBU1xs34vXn5n6Tvr0JVvioLNt3bakyIUA4VIj94re/hdxVGpbleHKPtormm2f+0ObSgvEi1RENiE= + the question was not related to an app + i discovered nothing it was just a simple example to illustrate an empiric way I do not know if you tried to use humour, but very bad Thank you On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Terry Lambert <tlambert(a)apple.com> wrote: > On Mar 7, 2008, at 5:06 PM, mm w wrote: > > #include <stdio.h> > > > > /* > > cc -ansi -Wall -O3 -arch i386 -DARCH_X86_64=0 main.c -o main-i386 > > cc -ansi -Wall -O2 -arch x86_64 -DARCH_X86_64=1 main.c -o main-x86_64 > > lipo -create -arch i386 main-i386 -arch x86_64 main-x86_64 -o main > > */ > > > > /* main.c */ > > > > int main(void) { > > #if ARCH_X86_64 > > puts("hello world 64!"); > > #else > > puts("hello world!"); > > #endif > > return 0; > > } > > /* EOF */ > > > > $ ./main-i386 > > hello world! > > $ ./main-x86_64 > > hello world 64! > > $ ./main > > hello world 64! > > > > 1 - is there a way to know which arch/img has been loaded? > > ps or activity monitor or, as you have discovered, printf. > > > > 2 - is it possible to force one arch to be loaded rather than the > > default one? > > Check the checkbox in finder, if it's a GUI application, or: > > man arch > > -- Terry > -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: dyld 2 questions
by mm w 08 Mar '08

08 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=VhItdku/dcDnrtxFd1Ezx776/DGPMbWlAMSeVfZkS0Y=; b=jzPrO1hwdIZs6bU/i/7wpoeB+n7+gjSt6oQ4BbWbeUzaOlC8zbj6M56nNLlxeNIifzrKdLPArefhsy0lP6SIyZ3uyvgyaSszQxVhCssbEB85X1Mrc/jZNHRK6gmXLAZcxfPgLueK90kVqv/o5Hn6ZCaTQZJz3IMjcBY5lA6BXf0= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=artIrpsz1hEh8kx47cNsPVrT+jDxN/IxObkCnc+yj/1WbsxukYchtymYaBR0ZSQunJiembNY6S6Ch7+CbJcKVl4KVJYkh19xz36vGXQacRvkteTdcNho8oHyw15DRxKXUv0Srat6SkWKXa0hEKQZ3lUClaqd1P2trSvpNkyCPqI= hi Terry it's really not that I'm asked, I reiterate my question, is it possible to get which arch of a fat binary has been loaded? is it possible (in the case of a fat binary) to force one arch to be loaded rather than the default one? On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 10:24 PM, Terry Lambert <tlambert(a)apple.com> wrote: > On Mar 7, 2008, at 5:06 PM, mm w wrote: > > #include <stdio.h> > > > > /* > > cc -ansi -Wall -O3 -arch i386 -DARCH_X86_64=0 main.c -o main-i386 > > cc -ansi -Wall -O2 -arch x86_64 -DARCH_X86_64=1 main.c -o main-x86_64 > > lipo -create -arch i386 main-i386 -arch x86_64 main-x86_64 -o main > > */ > > > > /* main.c */ > > > > int main(void) { > > #if ARCH_X86_64 > > puts("hello world 64!"); > > #else > > puts("hello world!"); > > #endif > > return 0; > > } > > /* EOF */ > > > > $ ./main-i386 > > hello world! > > $ ./main-x86_64 > > hello world 64! > > $ ./main > > hello world 64! > > > > 1 - is there a way to know which arch/img has been loaded? > > ps or activity monitor or, as you have discovered, printf. > > > > 2 - is it possible to force one arch to be loaded rather than the > > default one? > > Check the checkbox in finder, if it's a GUI application, or: > > man arch > > -- Terry > -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: dyld 2 questions
by Terry Lambert 08 Mar '08

08 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com #include <stdio.h> /* cc -ansi -Wall -O3 -arch i386 -DARCH_X86_64=0 main.c -o main-i386 cc -ansi -Wall -O2 -arch x86_64 -DARCH_X86_64=1 main.c -o main-x86_64 lipo -create -arch i386 main-i386 -arch x86_64 main-x86_64 -o main */ /* main.c */ int main(void) { #if ARCH_X86_64 puts("hello world 64!"); #else puts("hello world!"); #endif return 0; } /* EOF */ $ ./main-i386 hello world! $ ./main-x86_64 hello world 64! $ ./main hello world 64! ps or activity monitor or, as you have discovered, printf. Check the checkbox in finder, if it's a GUI application, or: man arch -- Terry _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… On Mar 7, 2008, at 5:06 PM, mm w wrote: 1 - is there a way to know which arch/img has been loaded? 2 - is it possible to force one arch to be loaded rather than the default one? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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dyld 2 questions
by mm w 08 Mar '08

08 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=ERapXu7DuWEXIJVttru6mhjW8QgswMiYTrNsmcivVw0=; b=TIYia7JJ8hQFGHlbbIIy0HzC2RP91PQDx9B+AtqDVwoP6QKNCtrQz2XOh5C77OkSiU+b1sib2xnGDesEhxhfuRJ6JoupPX5j2UqqYzNfDQqdMRWtUTiP6d03x5LuUMupUNasI8xS0n3zApGiRpxd8B9jvoGgdt37eehdlh5iB0Q= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=w1T0TlPtTCg9aj7CLGmpq6RuO2OUxJeBaqt36CbtsCJsra3cDB5cWzHGcha5fBycb2zbXkxlNB9A9k0GTJi2fVaoe7mtsoS4BCPKxzyGUZH1x0pAM7urlz5dpJJobrXNBPr6kmqnogpJ3KyzL5UO4fGAJpuUVuClN9UZXUdwRJ0= #include <stdio.h> /* cc -ansi -Wall -O3 -arch i386 -DARCH_X86_64=0 main.c -o main-i386 cc -ansi -Wall -O2 -arch x86_64 -DARCH_X86_64=1 main.c -o main-x86_64 lipo -create -arch i386 main-i386 -arch x86_64 main-x86_64 -o main */ /* main.c */ int main(void) { #if ARCH_X86_64 puts("hello world 64!"); #else puts("hello world!"); #endif return 0; } /* EOF */ $ ./main-i386 hello world! $ ./main-x86_64 hello world 64! $ ./main hello world 64! 1 - is there a way to know which arch/img has been loaded? 2 - is it possible to force one arch to be loaded rather than the default one? -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: path length limit in seatbelt/sandbox?
by Michael Weiser 06 Mar '08

06 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Mutt/1.5.16 (2007-06-09) Hello Jacques, On Tue, Mar 04, 2008 at 05:54:26PM -0800, Jacques Vidrine wrote: > You are right, it does sound like it may be a Seatbelt issue. Would you > mind filing a report via < http://developer.apple.com/bugreporter/ > ? > Among the benefits of filing it is that you can see the bug status and add > additional information as needed. Done. Cheers, -- man liest sich, Michael Elefanten spielen nicht Schach! _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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port open failed with lock
by Pradip Patel 06 Mar '08

06 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com -- eInfochips Business Disclaimer: This message may contain confidential, proprietary or legally Privileged information. In case you are not the original intended Recipient of the message, you must not, directly or indirectly, use, Disclose,distribute, print, or copy any part of this message and you are requested to delete it and inform the sender. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender unless otherwise stated.Nothing contained in this message shall be construed as an offer or acceptance of any offer by eInfochips Limited and/or eInfochips Inc(eInfochips) unless sent with that express intent and with due authority of eInfochips.EInfochips has taken enough precautions to prevent the spread of viruses. However the company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: ulimit stack information
by Terry Lambert 05 Mar '08

05 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com That is because of me. Consider fixing your code. Here's the whole story for the default case of "not a custom stack": HOWEVER: On smaller stacks instead of larger: -- Terry _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… On Mar 2, 2008, at 1:15 PM, Ken Mankoff wrote: On Sun, 2 Mar 2008, Terry Lambert wrote: On Mar 1, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Ken Mankoff <mankoff(a)gmail.com> wrote: On Sat, 1 Mar 2008, Michael Smith wrote: On Mar 1, 2008, at 11:20 AM, Ken Mankoff wrote: I'm running out of stack space with an application I need to run. I have "ulimit -s 64000" in my .bash_profile. The highest value I can set is 65532. At 65533 it reports, "/usr/bin/ulimit: line 4: ulimit: stack size: cannot modify limit: Invalid argument" I read somewhere that the kernel limits it to 64MB. I figure this is the right place to get a definitive answer and further information. Is it 64 really the limit? How would I allow multiple processes to each have 128 or 256MB each? I'm comfortable recompiling a kernel if need be. Thanks for any advice, First suggestion; fix the app so that it uses less than 64MiB of stack. Hard, but realistically that much stack usage points to a design/algorithmic flaw (Resource consumption that scales 1:1 with some aspect of your dataset directly constrains the dataset that you can manage vs. the availability of the resource in question.) I can't do this. This is 100 000 + lines that is a global climate model. Second suggestion: you have hit the hard limit; you need to be root to increase it. You can either run the shell as root, or write a setuid root wrapper for your application that uses setrlimit(2) to bump both the hard and soft limits up before starting the application. I tried the 'ulimit' command w/ sudo. Won't go above 65532. Even with OK thank you all for the feedback. We haven't actually run into a 64MB limit but are concerned we might. It sounds unlikely based on the Oracle comments, but I think I have a pretty good idea of how to approach it should we require more. The issue is the imposition of resource limits, and where our stacks get allocated. Unlike other UNIX systems, you don't start out with them growing down towards the heap. As Shantonu noted, you can ask for a larger stack segment to be allocated for you at link time; but there will be serious limitation on what you can do after that. For a "custom stack", the defaults are what you tell it, and there is no guard page, so unless you allocate one of those as well, then you can fall off the end (preferably also at link time). Basically, we have to preallocate the space because it could get stomped, and we have to stomp part of it so that if you run off the end you get a warning, and then how much of that we stomp is based on the default soft limits set via setrlimit(); this is required for POSIX conformance, but the only meaning that has is that the default has to be less than the maximum possible: it doesn't effect where the maximum sits. Unfortunately, the default stack size due to administrative limits means we take whatever number that was, and thunk a guard page in at the default offset. You effectively have the address space mapping for the full 64MB, since things could have been allocated into the guard space because of where the stack is initially located. Our memory layout is not like other UNIX systems. We have things that allocate memory in the middle of the address space, and at the end, and the video drivers allocate frame buffer, texture, and other memory in the middle as well. Further, the programs environment and argument list is preallocated out of the available stack space, and the stack starts at an offset after that (this is fairly well documented in kern_exec.c in the xnu sources, which describes the stack layout in detail). But it means that if you have a huge environment, argument list, or combination, you will have less stack. If you ask for a custom stack, and the you, or code you call, *ever* modify the stack resource limits via setrlimit(), you will minimally get a guard page plopped at the end of the 64MB, maximally at the smaller default, and you will be stuck with a maximum 64MB stack thereafter. This limit is set at compile to to MAXSSIZ - PAGE_SIZE ... 64MB - 1 page. The resource limits code doesn't really know anything about the limits you may or may not impose. Clearly, from this, you should also be very careful setting a custom stack size of under 64MB, if you choose to set one, unless you also set your guard page and never touch setrlimit() for the stack size there. If you pick one that is too small, even if you do the right thing with guard pages and so on (my recommendation would be to add a one pages section to the binary after the stack section, and map it no read/write, in fact), you also risk running out of stack space from a larger environment or argument list. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: path length limit in seatbelt/sandbox?
by Jacques Vidrine 05 Mar '08

05 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Hi Michael, Cheers, -- Jacques On Mar 1, 2008, at 4:24 PM, Michael Weiser wrote: Hello, When a program recursively creates directories, changes into them and calls getcwd(), it can create a rather deep directory structure before failing with error "No such file or directory": michael@esgaroth:~ # ./recgetcwd getcwd: No such file or directory .............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................. michael@esgaroth:~ # sandbox-exec -f recgetcwd.sb ./recgetcwd mkdir: File name too long .............................................................................. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… You are right, it does sound like it may be a Seatbelt issue. Would you mind filing a report via < http://developer.apple.com/bugreporter/ > ? Among the benefits of filing it is that you can see the bug status and add additional information as needed. when trying to compile coreutils-6.10 in a sandbox, I noticed that their getcwd() configure test yielded different results with and without the sandbox. I did some testing and boiled it down to the attached testcase: When running the same program in a sandbox that doesn't actualy restrict anything but has a rule containing a path name, it will fail much earlier with "File name too long": Has anyone come across this? -- bye, Micha <recgetcwd.c><recgetcwd.sb> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/nectar %40apple.com This email sent to nectar(a)apple.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Memory Mapping examples/documentation?
by Greg 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Thanks, - Greg On Mar 3, 2008, at 9:54 PM, mm w wrote: $ cc wire.c -o test $ ./test Thanks for the example mousse, but I'm not really sure that this does... I compiled it and ran it like so: $ cc example.c $ sudo ./a.out And got a lot of output along these lines: addr = 800000 error = 268435459 addr = 802000 error = 268435459 addr = 802000 error = 268435459 addr = 803000 error = 268435459 addr = 803000 Am I correct in my understanding that task_wire(self,true) tells OS X not to page the program out from memory? What then is vm_wire() used for? Also, how do I use this for my purposes (which is to share memory between my kext and the user-land program)? - Greg On Mar 3, 2008, at 2:37 PM, mm w wrote: #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <stdbool.h> #include <mach/vm_map.h> int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { vm_map_t self; kern_return_t kret; self = mach_task_self(); kret = task_wire(self, true); if (kret == KERN_INVALID_HOST) fprintf(stderr, "vm_wire KERN_INVALID_HOST.\n"); else if (kret) fprintf(stderr,"error = %d\n", kret); vm_size_t size; host_priv_t host; host = mach_host_self(); void *ptr; int i = 0; host_page_size(host, &size); if (kret == KERN_INVALID_HOST) fprintf(stderr, "vm_wire KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE.\n"); else if (kret == KERN_INVALID_HOST) fprintf(stderr, "vm_wire KERN_INVALID_HOST.\n"); else if (kret) fprintf(stderr,"error = %d\n", kret); } while(++i < 5); return 0; } On Mar 3, 2008, at 11:23 AM, mm w wrote: Hi Greg, The only reason that I don't want to make an IOKit kext is that I feel it would over-complicate my code. I don't have much time to learn all the paradigms of creating a driver and then a userclient when all I need is one function to start the kernel extension (kextname_start) and one function to stop it (kextname_stop). Because if that's the case then converting my extension to IOKit stuff might be easier than wading through kernel code. Thanks, - Greg -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/greg%40kinostudios.com -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/greg%40kinostudios.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… I understand basic concepts like what a virtual address is, what IPC is, etc. I understand that I need to send an address to the KEXT via IPC (or from the KEXT to the user-land app). However, I cannot do this if I don't know how to use the functions in the source code you just sent. Why is an error being printed out in the example? Is calling task_wire() necessary? Is vm_wire() the function that creates shared memory? What exactly are the effects of the flags VM_PROT_READ, VM_PROT_WRITE, and are there any other flags I should be aware of? Hi Greg, this is a basic question, I'm going to try to give you some leads, imagine, we are in two rooms separated by a cupboard with two entries (double access), my room is called the Forgotten City :) now I'm going open a drawer and put something inside for you (and sure I can lock some drawers (keymaster)), you have several options to find what I gave: try to open every drawer or I can send you somewhere the "address" of this drawer (IPC), one more constraint you can't use a device file :) On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:27 PM, Greg <greg(a)kinostudios.com> wrote: Thanks, and sorry for the lack of knowledge on my part, in my defense I would read the documentation if I knew what documentation to read! :-p do { fork(); ptr = malloc(size); printf("addr = %X\n" , ptr); kret = vm_wire(host, self, (vm_address_t) ptr, size, VM_PROT_READ | VM_PROT_WRITE); On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Greg <greg(a)kinostudios.com> wrote: In the doc there is a small chapter regarding Memory wiring called: Memory Mapping and Block Copying, I guess it's exactly what you asked, as Michael said most people think that not using IOKit is more efficient, for the most of cases, it's really wrong, as you have may be noticed IOKit is not a full C++, it's based on Embedded C++, Iokit provides many facilities and kern controls, and sure it depends on what you want to accomplish, if it's to learn or implement something that doesn't exist, your are on the way, if it's for implementing something that already exists not sure :), and sure the xnu source is always your best doc: osfmk/vm/vm_user.c Are the functions in vm_user.c the only functions available to do what I want? And are you saying that no actual documentation on how to use those functions to do memory mapping exists? This email sent to greg(a)kinostudios.com This email sent to greg(a)kinostudios.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hotswap support?
by Michael Cashwell 04 Mar '08

04 Mar '08

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com On Mar 4, 2008, at 1:03 AM, Michael Smith wrote: On Mar 3, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Régis Duchesne wrote: -Mike _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… What is the current Leopard support for hot-add/hot-remove of the following devices? o CPU (Mac OS does not seem to like ejectable CPUs in the ACPI tables) o Memory o PCI device o PCI Express device Apple does not ship hardware with any of the above features, so support would seem to be moot. However, MBPs do have an ExpressCard/34 socket which is logically PCI Express combined with USB in a form that supports hot-swap. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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