site_archiver@lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev@lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=1zczcS79hCMouswkLJEoYBD0hH13yEUnBgQhn+II93A=; b=eZv60H4b6evt3v5e4o4LPUWHDMLEDr/noQvDJckmxWQ/BU56DBp9oL+4YNJIwcpGBLy8tWn+rvjhIGNM15yCucfjJhezz5WHtA9ghTOXQMIpjFgdojoGopUjy3Lxkw6JPCIfvbRNcuqCgGIqpUQg63Is665EYojtjeRE5actxBc= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=O5wBxaZ4wZ6vb4JYYIUSziZRWleeUSn/e3IAzFIoySnk82ZbVWXu1XCGQN/cVXxkuhO1DSG233gZaddORV4tG2HeXrhX3MDV6HXmPegpnwnmmTSbwbcmwpPG8zv7AAmeNzyGT+gmJtFRdeifu2HAUOQTjkAk0CopQQwaYWLeXv8= It's just too tempting to get involved... I came to a realization on all of this yesterday: Apple doesn't really want us developing software for them. Seriously. With the exception of a few products that really sell more Macs, like PhotoShop, Apple prefers to write *all their own software.* We all know Jobs is a control freak (although he's clearly got great qualities), and we've seen Apple gradually replace all third-party software with their own implementations. I really don't think they like the idea of third-party developers coming in and writing apps that don't fit the mold, that don't have the Apple stamp. I think that's why you see things like trivial bugs in PackageMaker persisting for years. The installer team is so far down on the priority list it's not even on the radar. It's why the Java team is a year behind and why Apple reluctantly announced an SDK for the iPhone -- I think they would have preferred not to. The fact is, *Apple doesn't ultimately make much money on the software we write* -- they make it on their own software. Adobe is probably the only company capable of influencing them in this regard at all. They're the darling of the development community simply because they write "Ubuntu with all the drivers working" -- aka "OSX". If all the drivers worked all the time on Ubuntu or any other Linux variety, I'd ditch Jobs in a second, and I know many others who would stampede through that door. Hmnn, yeah, I think I'm going to stop saying "OSX", and start saying things like "have you heard about this new Unix where all the drivers are always updated?" Sorry to fan the flames, but I had a bit of an epiphany about all of this yesterday, and our stars aligned.

From Jaipur.

-Adam On Nov 28, 2007 6:51 AM, Nathan Duran <installerdev@khiltd.com> wrote:

On Nov 27, 2007, at 2:07 PM, Peter Mulholland wrote:

...

So is NSIS on Windows, which is more powerful.

PM has most of the power I've ever needed personally, but its UI is confusing in its inconsistent use of terminology, its documentation sparse, and I'd certainly prefer that it didn't crash or corrupt its own project files constantly. I absolutely loathe having to launch that application because I just know something's going to break simply because I looked at it.

...

Hmm, I did initially hate Xcode, and I still prefer Visual Studio, but it's not bad.

It's certainly gotten better since Adobe made their demands clear, but its design philosophy remains centered around the notion that shell scripting support is an excuse for never implementing a lot of features that would actually make developers' lives easier, and I'm still waiting for basic things that CodeWarrior had a decade ago--like a text editor/code browser that could provide accurate syntax highlighting/hyperlink-style navigation AND keep up with an average person's typing speed on a 100MHz PPC 601, but we're way off topic now.

The gist of my opining is that if Apple did 1/16th as much usability research for their developer tools as they do for the shiny trinkets that look good on TV there'd be fewer developers making silly mistakes and (probably) more good Mac software. Of course, there'd also be fewer DTS incidents from confused developers funding those researcher's salaries, so it's a tough nut to crack. I guess I just miss the days when there was actual competition in the Mac IDE market.

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