August 2009 - Pro-apps-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Testing with lossless codecs
by Dan DiPaola 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 11, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Andreas Wittenstein wrote: Dan and anyone else who wants 16-bit real-time lossless video, RGB Mostly Progressive Andreas Wittenstein Founder, BitJazz Inc. http://www.bitjazz.com/ On 2009 Aug 11, at 10:34 , Dan DiPaola wrote: Team, What if we would like to try and stay in a 16 bit world? best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Andreas Wittenstein wrote: Brian, http://www.bitjazz.com/sheervideo/ Andreas Wittenstein BitJazz Inc. http://www.bitjazz.com/ On 2009 Aug 10, at 12:44 , Brian Gardner wrote: Thanks, Darrin. There appears to be no way to test my plugins using a lossless QuickTime codec. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/hd444%40mac.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… What are your specific 16-bit needs: 90% of the time we are receiving as 16 bit TIFF image sequence files. Very few are still delivering as DPX or Cineon. We had issues of different applications having their own meanings for the the same term. • RGB, Y'CbCr, or monochrome? • Progressive or interlaced? • With or without alpha? On occasion w/alpha to be used for Grain or other artifact removal from under trailer's title graphics • Full-range or video-range? Full Range. When possible we do not deal with any color space compression algorithms prior to our encoding • Integer or floating-point ('half')? I believe floating point in most cases Animation and None are 8-bit RGB[A] codecs. If you need an RGB[A] QuickTime codec with 10 bits of precision per channel, try Sheer RGB[A] 10bf. It's only free for the first 20 days of use, but it's truly lossless, it's really fast, and it's cross-platform. I tried the Difference matte technique you suggested to test a number of QuickTime codecs, including the Animation codec. None of them were lossless. Actually, it's kind of scary that QuickTime does not have a single codec that is completely lossless... even the "uncompressed" were lossy. I used a 10 bit DPX 1920x1080p 24.0 fps sequence as source footage, which I've just received from a recent music video shoot, shot on a stage. The goal is to convert it into a single QuickTime ".mov" file, with lossless compression (or even no compression). I couldn't achieve that goal. Here are the codecs that I tested: Animation (at best setting) - truncates off the bottom 2 bits (10 bit - > 8 bit), which is lossy. None - Exact same results as Animation. 8-bit only. truncated bottom 2 bits. Lossy. (Differencing the Animation and None codecs to each other gives 0's-- exact match.) FCP Uncompressed 422 10 bit - differences at all edges (to be expected, 444->422 issue) DNxHD 10 bit 709 - Noisiest of these codecs. (Noisy into top 8 bits.) Blocking artifacts, especially in the vertically oriented direction. Lossy. Apple Pro Res HQ - slightly noisier than FCP Uncompressed 422, but similar 444->422 lossy results. Apple Pro Res 4444 codec - least lossy of the codecs I tested. Appears to have saved full 10 bits. (Did not just truncate down to 8. Possibly can do 16->16 bit?) Noisy in bottom bits, though. Lossy. NOTE: The Apple Pro Res 4444 codec has a bug, in that it does not appear to do the right thing if it is given an image that does not have an alpha channel. And there is no option in the codec UI to automatically add a fully opaque alpha channel. (It would be very nice to have that option.) When I layer two copies of the SAME resulting ProRes 4444 video on top of each other, and toggle visibility of the top layer On & Off -- they do not match! There is a brightness/contrast difference, which appears to be stemming from the alpha. For my 10 bit 444 source video, Pro Res 4444 was less lossy than "Uncompressed", "None", and "Animation". "Lossless" QT codecs appear to only be lossless for 8 bit video, not anything above 8 bits. Ditto for 444 video ... where even "Uncompressed" is quite lossy. Both were rather jarring surprises. -- Brian This email sent to hd444(a)mac.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: question on refreshing parameter data between instances.
by Brian Gardner 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=iVsYuDZh+KLQa5KUyRAx3tRgQa84EATUp4JHNdYPewYzsH18yrRdSC989JT+B5wN; h=Received:From:To:In-Reply-To:Subject:References:Message-Id:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Date:Cc:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; I have a similar situation to Jay. When a saved FCP project is later reopened, I'd like to update some parameter settings. As a plugin is getting re-instated during an "Open Project..." (boot), is there an methods which get called, which we can hook into? -- Brian On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Jay Boyer wrote: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Is there a point in the boot sequence that I can detect that the plug-in is from a prior instance so that I can update these lists? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: Testing with lossless codecs
by Peter Chou 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi Brian, Regarding: NOTE: The Apple Pro Res 4444 codec has a bug, in that it does not appear to do the right thing if it is given an image that does not have an alpha channel. And there is no option in the codec UI to automatically add a fully opaque alpha channel. (It would be very nice to have that option.) -Peter _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com When the codec receives a buffer in ARGB format to be compressed, it has no way of knowing if the non-opaque values in the "A" channel should be preserved or ignored, unless you explicitly tell the codec to ignore them (see below). I have heard before that there is a problem with alpha in DPXs written by certain systems. A workaround for this if you happen to be using Shake is to select "autoAlpha" on the FileIn and set its value to 1. It's subtle, but there actually IS an option in the codec UI to do this. It follows the standard QuickTime convention of using "Millions of Colors+" (note the trailing plus sign) to indicate "with alpha" and "Millions of Colors" (no trailing plus) to indicate "without alpha". If you set the Depth popup menu to "Millions of Colors", the codec will ignore the incoming alpha channel and produce a fully opaque one upon decode.

1 0

Re: how trims & cuts effect reference image wells
by Brian Gardner 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=s8v99xfX4b1CmZWQaoZNbc0VbwQfpZPIwN/S+fu+o9bN8tk+DtFW2XvYIa1h8QTC; h=Received:From:To:In-Reply-To:Subject:References:Message-Id:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Date:Cc:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Just to clarify this before I start... I get the start time from the FxTimingAPI in timeline frames (I think). If a generator is cut, it's 2nd half would have it's start time changed? Did I understand that right? -- Brian On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Darrin Cardani wrote: Let me know if you have any questions. Here's the plugin I used: <ImageWellChangeTester.zip> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… And that change is always distinguishable from a clip that's just being moved? (By looking at the duration, because the duration also changes on a cut, but not on a move.) Brian, The way you suggest it should work would be a good design. However, that's not how it works currently. :( Paul's out on vacation, and he'd have a better idea of how it works in FCP, but I'll go over what Motion does. I believe that FCP does basically the same thing, but am not positive. An image well is a parameter like any other. When you change the clip duration or the start point, you change the value of the parameter, so the host app will ask your plugin to re-render, just as if the user changed the value of a slider or checkbox. It should first call your plugin's -parameterChanged: method with the ID of the image parameter, but upon testing, I've discovered that it does not (at least in Motion - you should try in FCP). This is a bug you should write up. So all your plugin knows is that something changed and it should rerender. One way you can track what's changed is by caching the image in the image well's start time and duration. In your - renderOutput: method, you can use the FxTimingAPI to see if the image parameter's start time or duration is different from your cached value and do the appropriate thing if it's changed. It's not as convenient as getting a -parameterChanged: message, or a notification directly, but it should be workable. Darrin This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: Testing with lossless codecs
by Andreas Wittenstein 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dan and anyone else who wants 16-bit real-time lossless video, What are your specific 16-bit needs: • RGB, Y'CbCr, or monochrome? • Progressive or interlaced? • With or without alpha? • Full-range or video-range? • Integer or floating-point ('half')? Andreas Wittenstein Founder, BitJazz Inc. http://www.bitjazz.com/ On 2009 Aug 11, at 10:34 , Dan DiPaola wrote: Team, What if we would like to try and stay in a 16 bit world? best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Andreas Wittenstein wrote: Brian, http://www.bitjazz.com/sheervideo/ Andreas Wittenstein BitJazz Inc. http://www.bitjazz.com/ On 2009 Aug 10, at 12:44 , Brian Gardner wrote: Thanks, Darrin. There appears to be no way to test my plugins using a lossless QuickTime codec. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/hd444%40mac.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Animation and None are 8-bit RGB[A] codecs. If you need an RGB[A] QuickTime codec with 10 bits of precision per channel, try Sheer RGB[A] 10bf. It's only free for the first 20 days of use, but it's truly lossless, it's really fast, and it's cross-platform. I tried the Difference matte technique you suggested to test a number of QuickTime codecs, including the Animation codec. None of them were lossless. Actually, it's kind of scary that QuickTime does not have a single codec that is completely lossless... even the "uncompressed" were lossy. I used a 10 bit DPX 1920x1080p 24.0 fps sequence as source footage, which I've just received from a recent music video shoot, shot on a stage. The goal is to convert it into a single QuickTime ".mov" file, with lossless compression (or even no compression). I couldn't achieve that goal. Here are the codecs that I tested: Animation (at best setting) - truncates off the bottom 2 bits (10 bit - > 8 bit), which is lossy. None - Exact same results as Animation. 8-bit only. truncated bottom 2 bits. Lossy. (Differencing the Animation and None codecs to each other gives 0's-- exact match.) FCP Uncompressed 422 10 bit - differences at all edges (to be expected, 444->422 issue) DNxHD 10 bit 709 - Noisiest of these codecs. (Noisy into top 8 bits.) Blocking artifacts, especially in the vertically oriented direction. Lossy. Apple Pro Res HQ - slightly noisier than FCP Uncompressed 422, but similar 444->422 lossy results. Apple Pro Res 4444 codec - least lossy of the codecs I tested. Appears to have saved full 10 bits. (Did not just truncate down to 8. Possibly can do 16->16 bit?) Noisy in bottom bits, though. Lossy. NOTE: The Apple Pro Res 4444 codec has a bug, in that it does not appear to do the right thing if it is given an image that does not have an alpha channel. And there is no option in the codec UI to automatically add a fully opaque alpha channel. (It would be very nice to have that option.) When I layer two copies of the SAME resulting ProRes 4444 video on top of each other, and toggle visibility of the top layer On & Off -- they do not match! There is a brightness/contrast difference, which appears to be stemming from the alpha. For my 10 bit 444 source video, Pro Res 4444 was less lossy than "Uncompressed", "None", and "Animation". "Lossless" QT codecs appear to only be lossless for 8 bit video, not anything above 8 bits. Ditto for 444 video ... where even "Uncompressed" is quite lossy. Both were rather jarring surprises. -- Brian This email sent to hd444(a)mac.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: Testing with lossless codecs
by Darrin Cardani 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: Testing with lossless codecs
by Pierre Jasmin 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Organization: RE:Vision Effects User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) It's been pulled out the market as part of the RG acquisition back then Darrin On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Dan DiPaola wrote: Darrin, Where do we find the NONE 16? best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Darrin Cardani wrote: <http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/quicktime-api> Darrin On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Dan DiPaola wrote: Team, What if we would like to try and stay in a 16 bit world? best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Andreas Wittenstein wrote: Brian, http://www.bitjazz.com/sheervideo/ Andreas Wittenstein BitJazz Inc. http://www.bitjazz.com/ On 2009 Aug 10, at 12:44 , Brian Gardner wrote: Thanks, Darrin. There appears to be no way to test my plugins using a lossless QuickTime codec. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/hd444%40mac.com -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com This email sent to jasmin(a)revisionfx.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Darrin Cardani wrote: I have no idea. I imagine you'll have to Google for it. You might send an email to someone at Digital Anarchy and see if it's still available either from them or somewhere else. It's not an Apple product, so I don't know much about it beyond its existence. As mentioned, there's the None16 codec and the Microcosm codec. I know that the TIFF spec supports 16-bit per channel data, but I don't know if the QT TIFF codec supports it off the top of my head. You might have more luck with these codec questions on the QuickTime-API list. You can add yourself here: Animation and None are 8-bit RGB[A] codecs. If you need an RGB[A] QuickTime codec with 10 bits of precision per channel, try Sheer RGB[A] 10bf. It's only free for the first 20 days of use, but it's truly lossless, it's really fast, and it's cross-platform. I tried the Difference matte technique you suggested to test a number of QuickTime codecs, including the Animation codec. None of them were lossless. Actually, it's kind of scary that QuickTime does not have a single codec that is completely lossless... even the "uncompressed" were lossy. I used a 10 bit DPX 1920x1080p 24.0 fps sequence as source footage, which I've just received from a recent music video shoot, shot on a stage. The goal is to convert it into a single QuickTime ".mov" file, with lossless compression (or even no compression). I couldn't achieve that goal. Here are the codecs that I tested: Animation (at best setting) - truncates off the bottom 2 bits (10 bit - > 8 bit), which is lossy. None - Exact same results as Animation. 8-bit only. truncated bottom 2 bits. Lossy. (Differencing the Animation and None codecs to each other gives 0's-- exact match.) FCP Uncompressed 422 10 bit - differences at all edges (to be expected, 444->422 issue) DNxHD 10 bit 709 - Noisiest of these codecs. (Noisy into top 8 bits.) Blocking artifacts, especially in the vertically oriented direction. Lossy. Apple Pro Res HQ - slightly noisier than FCP Uncompressed 422, but similar 444->422 lossy results. Apple Pro Res 4444 codec - least lossy of the codecs I tested. Appears to have saved full 10 bits. (Did not just truncate down to 8. Possibly can do 16->16 bit?) Noisy in bottom bits, though. Lossy. NOTE: The Apple Pro Res 4444 codec has a bug, in that it does not appear to do the right thing if it is given an image that does not have an alpha channel. And there is no option in the codec UI to automatically add a fully opaque alpha channel. (It would be very nice to have that option.) When I layer two copies of the SAME resulting ProRes 4444 video on top of each other, and toggle visibility of the top layer On & Off -- they do not match! There is a brightness/contrast difference, which appears to be stemming from the alpha. For my 10 bit 444 source video, Pro Res 4444 was less lossy than "Uncompressed", "None", and "Animation". "Lossless" QT codecs appear to only be lossless for 8 bit video, not anything above 8 bits. Ditto for 444 video ... where even "Uncompressed" is quite lossy. Both were rather jarring surprises. -- Brian This email sent to hd444(a)mac.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/dcardani%40apple.com This email sent to dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/jasmin%40revisionfx.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: Testing with lossless codecs
by Darrin Cardani 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Darrin On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Dan DiPaola wrote: Darrin, Where do we find the NONE 16? best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Darrin Cardani wrote: <http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/quicktime-api> Darrin On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Dan DiPaola wrote: Team, What if we would like to try and stay in a 16 bit world? best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Andreas Wittenstein wrote: Brian, http://www.bitjazz.com/sheervideo/ Andreas Wittenstein BitJazz Inc. http://www.bitjazz.com/ On 2009 Aug 10, at 12:44 , Brian Gardner wrote: Thanks, Darrin. There appears to be no way to test my plugins using a lossless QuickTime codec. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/hd444%40mac.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/dcardani%40apple.com -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… I have no idea. I imagine you'll have to Google for it. You might send an email to someone at Digital Anarchy and see if it's still available either from them or somewhere else. It's not an Apple product, so I don't know much about it beyond its existence. As mentioned, there's the None16 codec and the Microcosm codec. I know that the TIFF spec supports 16-bit per channel data, but I don't know if the QT TIFF codec supports it off the top of my head. You might have more luck with these codec questions on the QuickTime-API list. You can add yourself here: Animation and None are 8-bit RGB[A] codecs. If you need an RGB[A] QuickTime codec with 10 bits of precision per channel, try Sheer RGB[A] 10bf. It's only free for the first 20 days of use, but it's truly lossless, it's really fast, and it's cross-platform. I tried the Difference matte technique you suggested to test a number of QuickTime codecs, including the Animation codec. None of them were lossless. Actually, it's kind of scary that QuickTime does not have a single codec that is completely lossless... even the "uncompressed" were lossy. I used a 10 bit DPX 1920x1080p 24.0 fps sequence as source footage, which I've just received from a recent music video shoot, shot on a stage. The goal is to convert it into a single QuickTime ".mov" file, with lossless compression (or even no compression). I couldn't achieve that goal. Here are the codecs that I tested: Animation (at best setting) - truncates off the bottom 2 bits (10 bit - > 8 bit), which is lossy. None - Exact same results as Animation. 8-bit only. truncated bottom 2 bits. Lossy. (Differencing the Animation and None codecs to each other gives 0's-- exact match.) FCP Uncompressed 422 10 bit - differences at all edges (to be expected, 444->422 issue) DNxHD 10 bit 709 - Noisiest of these codecs. (Noisy into top 8 bits.) Blocking artifacts, especially in the vertically oriented direction. Lossy. Apple Pro Res HQ - slightly noisier than FCP Uncompressed 422, but similar 444->422 lossy results. Apple Pro Res 4444 codec - least lossy of the codecs I tested. Appears to have saved full 10 bits. (Did not just truncate down to 8. Possibly can do 16->16 bit?) Noisy in bottom bits, though. Lossy. NOTE: The Apple Pro Res 4444 codec has a bug, in that it does not appear to do the right thing if it is given an image that does not have an alpha channel. And there is no option in the codec UI to automatically add a fully opaque alpha channel. (It would be very nice to have that option.) When I layer two copies of the SAME resulting ProRes 4444 video on top of each other, and toggle visibility of the top layer On & Off -- they do not match! There is a brightness/contrast difference, which appears to be stemming from the alpha. For my 10 bit 444 source video, Pro Res 4444 was less lossy than "Uncompressed", "None", and "Animation". "Lossless" QT codecs appear to only be lossless for 8 bit video, not anything above 8 bits. Ditto for 444 video ... where even "Uncompressed" is quite lossy. Both were rather jarring surprises. -- Brian This email sent to hd444(a)mac.com This email sent to dcardani(a)apple.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

question on refreshing parameter data between instances.
by Jay Boyer 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: AcoaqLEBoZVqhseuR4CqBq/u/aWgAAAAJJrw The FxPlug I am working on generates several lists in the drop down UI. These are lists of things that can be changed by user Input between instances of our plug-in being launched. For example, one of these is the user font list. Here is the scenario: Run FCP Apply the plug-in Save and Exit Install some fonts on the system Reopen FCP The font list in our plug-in is not up to date. At some point in time during our launch process I would like to be able to check the plug-in's UI for the font drop-down that was previously created, delete that list in the drop-down and rebuild the list from the current system font table. I did a quick test where I tried to get a parameter in -initWithAPIManager but the parameters do not seem to be available at that time. A related issue: At shutdown time I would prefer only to save the user's choice of font, possibly by reducing the font dropdown list to 1 item or by saving the font in a hidden string parameter. These things can be worked around by having the user delete our plug-in out of the sequence and reapply it along with their settings, but I would prefer not to burden the user with this if at all possible. Is there a way to replace drop down list contents in the UI after they have been added with -addParameters? Is there a point in the boot sequence that I can detect that the plug-in is from a prior instance so that I can update these lists? Jay Boyer _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: Testing with lossless codecs
by Dan DiPaola 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Darrin, Where do we find the NONE 16? best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Darrin Cardani wrote: <http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/quicktime-api> Darrin On Aug 11, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Dan DiPaola wrote: Team, What if we would like to try and stay in a 16 bit world? best, Dan DiPaola Co-Founder HD-encoding.com 818.859.7700 office 818.823.5500 cell dan(a)HD-encoding.com QualityNotQuantity On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Andreas Wittenstein wrote: Brian, http://www.bitjazz.com/sheervideo/ Andreas Wittenstein BitJazz Inc. http://www.bitjazz.com/ On 2009 Aug 10, at 12:44 , Brian Gardner wrote: Thanks, Darrin. There appears to be no way to test my plugins using a lossless QuickTime codec. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/hd444%40mac.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/dcardani%40apple.com -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… As mentioned, there's the None16 codec and the Microcosm codec. I know that the TIFF spec supports 16-bit per channel data, but I don't know if the QT TIFF codec supports it off the top of my head. You might have more luck with these codec questions on the QuickTime- API list. You can add yourself here: Animation and None are 8-bit RGB[A] codecs. If you need an RGB[A] QuickTime codec with 10 bits of precision per channel, try Sheer RGB[A] 10bf. It's only free for the first 20 days of use, but it's truly lossless, it's really fast, and it's cross-platform. I tried the Difference matte technique you suggested to test a number of QuickTime codecs, including the Animation codec. None of them were lossless. Actually, it's kind of scary that QuickTime does not have a single codec that is completely lossless... even the "uncompressed" were lossy. I used a 10 bit DPX 1920x1080p 24.0 fps sequence as source footage, which I've just received from a recent music video shoot, shot on a stage. The goal is to convert it into a single QuickTime ".mov" file, with lossless compression (or even no compression). I couldn't achieve that goal. Here are the codecs that I tested: Animation (at best setting) - truncates off the bottom 2 bits (10 bit - > 8 bit), which is lossy. None - Exact same results as Animation. 8-bit only. truncated bottom 2 bits. Lossy. (Differencing the Animation and None codecs to each other gives 0's-- exact match.) FCP Uncompressed 422 10 bit - differences at all edges (to be expected, 444->422 issue) DNxHD 10 bit 709 - Noisiest of these codecs. (Noisy into top 8 bits.) Blocking artifacts, especially in the vertically oriented direction. Lossy. Apple Pro Res HQ - slightly noisier than FCP Uncompressed 422, but similar 444->422 lossy results. Apple Pro Res 4444 codec - least lossy of the codecs I tested. Appears to have saved full 10 bits. (Did not just truncate down to 8. Possibly can do 16->16 bit?) Noisy in bottom bits, though. Lossy. NOTE: The Apple Pro Res 4444 codec has a bug, in that it does not appear to do the right thing if it is given an image that does not have an alpha channel. And there is no option in the codec UI to automatically add a fully opaque alpha channel. (It would be very nice to have that option.) When I layer two copies of the SAME resulting ProRes 4444 video on top of each other, and toggle visibility of the top layer On & Off -- they do not match! There is a brightness/contrast difference, which appears to be stemming from the alpha. For my 10 bit 444 source video, Pro Res 4444 was less lossy than "Uncompressed", "None", and "Animation". "Lossless" QT codecs appear to only be lossless for 8 bit video, not anything above 8 bits. Ditto for 444 video ... where even "Uncompressed" is quite lossy. Both were rather jarring surprises. -- Brian This email sent to hd444(a)mac.com This email sent to dcardani(a)apple.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0