May 2010 - Pro-apps-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by Darrin Cardani 19 May '10

19 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 19, 2010, at 8:56 AM, JongAm Park wrote: Glad I could help! Sorry for the incorrect info initially. Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… By the way, I would like to tell you tell our people figured out the information they want from the link you provided. Thank you very much. :) P.S. By the way, do you attend Cocoa Heads LA regularly? Yesterday people at NSCoder Night SM told me that you attneded there a few times. I usually attend NSCoder Night, because I can go there anytime while for Cocoa Heads LA I can't get in, if people already go into the E! Entertainment office. I attend both sporadically. I'd like to go more often, but it's not as convenient as it used to be. When NSCoder Night was at Panera, I lived a few blocks away and could walk over. Now I've moved, and the meetings have moved. I'm mostly making excuses, but there's only so much time in a day. :) But I'll definitely be there at some point in the future, and we can talk in person. I know that at least one other FxPlug developer sometimes shows up, too. And at the Cocoa Heads meetings, I occasionally see others who have also posted to this list. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by JongAm Park 19 May '10

19 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=zMghvaJKCl4ptOgsj8iUSwmhb8EjVWnhj/IZ0hp4f54DaEjD2HjaDyCl5LKWc6vZsadmS7BeGsFhy5YQkz3s0Dmc0rBEXOXQuIxOnkHaO99dZswUqUE8KiEpleSwpi3N5uejUIQ8hdh/+io++eMyflToMv4aT/xYs8qm2r/KFxs= ; User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4 Thank you very much. :) JongAm Park On May 18, 2010, at 2:47 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, JongAm Park wrote: May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? I would like to know this : ----------- ------------- Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com -- -- 子曰不而不改是謂過矣니라 공자께서 말씀하시길, 잘못을 하고도 고치지 않는 것, 그것을 잘못이라 한다. - 論語< 衛靈公>편 JongAm Park jongampark(a)sbcglobal.net Visit my personal blog at http://jongampark.blogspot.com Visit my technical blog at http://jongampark.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… By the way, I would like to tell you tell our people figured out the information they want from the link you provided. P.S. By the way, do you attend Cocoa Heads LA regularly? Yesterday people at NSCoder Night SM told me that you attneded there a few times. I usually attend NSCoder Night, because I can go there anytime while for Cocoa Heads LA I can't get in, if people already go into the E! Entertainment office. On 5/18/2010 4:34 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. Since this isn't a format that we have any control over, we don't have any documentation on it. I was just informed that in fact, we bought Spruce several years ago. Sorry for the confusion - I wasn't aware of that! It looks like someone here is looking into getting more info about the subject in question. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by JongAm Park 19 May '10

19 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=e5sUS4x/ro95RWCdMnPSkZm0bLQaH9d7WWiHQT0cGCwEb90h5K2tP6M6ripmgJhg11MPVF6qHelWrpX+qgTCFdRgmVRUKQxHO3BI3u7g/t6Cxto+vEc5F3bXixASU8Fp8ApC+84EoxtnoDeyNqQP97cgMRS0TpvcoOorDio9wAk= ; User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4 Thank you for the information. By the way, is the Spruce STL format retired? Thank you JongAm Park On May 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, JongAm Park wrote: May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? I would like to know this : ----------- ------------- Talks about the format <http://www.theneitherworld.com/mcpoodle/SCC_TOOLS/DOCS/SCC_FORMAT.HTML> The above points to this link on the US Government printing office: <http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html> Hope that helps, Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com -- -- 子曰不而不改是謂過矣니라 공자께서 말씀하시길, 잘못을 하고도 고치지 않는 것, 그것을 잘못이라 한다. - 論語< 衛靈公>편 JongAm Park jongampark(a)sbcglobal.net Visit my personal blog at http://jongampark.blogspot.com Visit my technical blog at http://jongampark.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… I received your email when I was at NSCoder Night Santa Monica, but couldn't read the whole document, especially SCC_FORMAT.HTML on my iPod Touch. So, I tried to find if it contains any information we want on my office computer, but it explains subtitle standard not "how STL declares CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2.../7 or WSS Page 1/.../9FF". I'm not sure if people can infer from the link you provided. I finally got some idea that "CC", "708" and "WSS Page" mean some subtitle standard numbers, though. On 5/18/2010 2:47 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. Since this isn't a format that we have any control over, we don't have any documentation on it. I quick search of the web reveals several web sites claiming knowledge of the format, though I imagine that going to the manufacturer would be the best route (assuming they still exist). Here are a few links I turned up, though you've probably already found these yourself: from which you can search for and freely download EIA/CEA standard 608-B, and I would assume, 708, as well. Some code for reading .scc files: <http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/ClosedCaptionImporter/Int…> This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by Yahoo 19 May '10

19 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:References:In-Reply-To:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Message-Id:Cc:X-Mailer:From:Subject:Date:To; b=KmxcbiMdIlyb6+ZqPuQ/Sa3xM0aTBRyOgJbdd0RnAZzgT+E0oA9zTPx6bqIoJ3CNK7e+JA2JF217yyCJmRLCP6SyBinXi2SYHHYo9+lKwKMWQhEyzPrRvMBgWG9w/3xZpuTk4+suJ7A4OLjxKQNLt+7/nKbF07K5sAKAGjDptxk= ; Thank you for the links and I just found out that Mobile Safari didn't support Find in Page. Arrrrr... Sent from my iPod On May 18, 2010, at 2:47 PM, Darrin Cardani <dcardani(a)apple.com> wrote: > > On May 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, JongAm Park wrote: > >> May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? >> I would like to know this : >> >> ----------- >> >> Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) >> >> ------------- >> >> However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. > > > Since this isn't a format that we have any control over, we don't have any documentation on it. I quick search of the web reveals several web sites claiming knowledge of the format, though I imagine that going to the manufacturer would be the best route (assuming they still exist). > > Here are a few links I turned up, though you've probably already found these yourself: > > Talks about the format > <http://www.theneitherworld.com/mcpoodle/SCC_TOOLS/DOCS/SCC_FORMAT.HTML> > > The above points to this link on the US Government printing office: > <http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html> > > from which you can search for and freely download EIA/CEA standard 608-B, and I would assume, 708, as well. > > Some code for reading .scc files: > <http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/ClosedCaptionImporter/Int…> > > Hope that helps, > Darrin > -- > Darrin Cardani > dcardani(a)apple.com > > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by Yahoo 19 May '10

19 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:References:In-Reply-To:Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Message-Id:Cc:X-Mailer:From:Subject:Date:To; b=4+vA+WK+Od3H7w/1j8/XrzJpcfgTJioDigi+qWsQ77sd4Pk1HVLOaGXY9I+9rMCnNtF3P9YCXNeypN3TJwBzAnbC6TiD6KkK0VkEKJEBYLD628oNtBxQSkP0MpzT2FsWkg1F/jhpuWBJg8axPYY4Nv5vc4ElONPyICexzhX30aw= ; Thank you for your comment. However I'm not sure if we have the doc. Sent from my iPod On May 18, 2010, at 2:09 PM, Andreas Kiel <kiel(a)spherico.com> wrote: > I don't know what you mean with 'CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF' > But the DVDSP manual explains all you need a Spruce STL - as far as I know. > > -Andreas > > On 18.05.2010, at 18:29, JongAm Park wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? >> I would like to know this : >> >> ----------- >> >> Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) >> >> ------------- >> >> However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> 子曰不而不改是謂過矣니라 >> 공자께서 말씀하시길, 잘못을 하고도 고치지 않는 것, 그것을 잘못이라 한다. >> - 論語< 衛靈公>편 >> >> JongAm Park >> jongampark(a)sbcglobal.net >> Visit my personal blog at http://jongampark.blogspot.com >> Visit my technical blog at http://jongampark.wordpress.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/kiel%40spherico.com >> >> This email sent to kiel(a)spherico.com > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by Lucas 19 May '10

19 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird/3.0.4 Spruce file format looks like the following: st_format 2 Subtitle data_name #Display_Start …. forced/non_forced Display_Start non_forced Pixel_Area (2 479) Display_Area (0 2 719 479) #color index value …. (E2 E1 Pa Bg) (1-16) Color (1 2 3 4) #contrast …. (E2 E1 Pa Bg) (0-15) Contrast (15 15 15 0) # Conversion rule …. (R G B R-operator G-operator B-operator) #RGB (0-255) #RGB-operator (=, &, <, >, X) # = equal # & and # < less than # > greater than # X don't care E2 (255 0 0 = = =) E1 (0 255 0 = = =) PA (0 0 0 = = =) BG (255 255 255 = = =) #image file directory. Directory C:\test #################################################### SP_NUMBER START END FILE_NAME 1 01:00:00:00 01:00:02:00 001.TIF 2 01:00:05:00 - 002.TIF 3 01:00:10:00 01:00:12:00 003.TIF You may perhaps be confusing STL with a different file format? Your best be there is to order a SMPTE CD which has all of the latest specs. If you're looking at subtitling, then that a whole different ball of wax. Hello, May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? I would like to know this : ----------- ------------- Thank you. -- 子曰不而不改是謂過矣니라 공자께서 말씀하시길, 잘못을 하고도 고치지 않는 것, 그것을 잘못이라 한다. - 論語< 衛靈公>편 JongAm Park jongampark(a)sbcglobal.net Visit my personal blog at http://jongampark.blogspot.com Visit my technical blog at http://jongampark.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/lucas%40vidix.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… I think you're confusing closed captioning with subtitling. STL is a subtitle format, there is no mapping to closed captioning. Each file is a 4 bit TIFF file, uncompressed. It is a rendered image of the subtitle itself. The RGB map, which is fixed palette, states which color to map to each TIFF palette index. 608 is pretty straight forward with command byte pairs to indicate CC channel and what type of display you would like (roll-up, pop-on, paint-on, etc). As for 708, you're dealing with new terror-tory! You're looking at, in the most generic implementation, generating CDP packets with mandated 608 codes as well as native 708 codes. On 18/05/2010 12:29 PM, JongAm Park wrote: Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. This email sent to lucas(a)vidix.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by Darrin Cardani 18 May '10

18 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 18, 2010, at 2:47 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: On May 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, JongAm Park wrote: May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? I would like to know this : ----------- ------------- Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. Since this isn't a format that we have any control over, we don't have any documentation on it. I was just informed that in fact, we bought Spruce several years ago. Sorry for the confusion - I wasn't aware of that! It looks like someone here is looking into getting more info about the subject in question. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by Darrin Cardani 18 May '10

18 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 18, 2010, at 9:29 AM, JongAm Park wrote: May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? I would like to know this : ----------- ------------- Talks about the format <http://www.theneitherworld.com/mcpoodle/SCC_TOOLS/DOCS/SCC_FORMAT.HTML> The above points to this link on the US Government printing office: <http://www.gpoaccess.gov/cfr/index.html> Hope that helps, Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. Since this isn't a format that we have any control over, we don't have any documentation on it. I quick search of the web reveals several web sites claiming knowledge of the format, though I imagine that going to the manufacturer would be the best route (assuming they still exist). Here are a few links I turned up, though you've probably already found these yourself: from which you can search for and freely download EIA/CEA standard 608- B, and I would assume, 708, as well. Some code for reading .scc files: <http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/samplecode/ClosedCaptionImporter/Int… > This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [Q] Spruce STL format document?
by Andreas Kiel 18 May '10

18 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com -Andreas On 18.05.2010, at 18:29, JongAm Park wrote: Hello, May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? I would like to know this : ----------- ------------- Thank you. JongAm Park jongampark(a)sbcglobal.net Visit my personal blog at http://jongampark.blogspot.com Visit my technical blog at http://jongampark.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… I don't know what you mean with 'CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF' But the DVDSP manual explains all you need a Spruce STL - as far as I know. Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. -- 子曰不而不改是謂過矣니라 공자께서 말씀하시길, 잘못을 하고도 고치지 않는 것, 그것을 잘못이라 한다. - 論語< 衛靈公>편 _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/kiel% 40spherico.com This email sent to kiel(a)spherico.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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[Q] Spruce STL format document?
by JongAm Park 18 May '10

18 May '10

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=OF9T/rlcDCT/6QZIGVRlFj6L+LFFSVI/eav/S48GfH2gAGUH5/svrMPg6xl5oh+Iuji/V6zHzaCAqKkCq7TYvTNWewcVzTkkKWBBz9Y8dUjt/ky+XHZcpQBFwqjGsyQebqGj/qZCxG66zDjfs9s9FmdVE/RAfe7VqGMoNJfyjuI= ; User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100317 Thunderbird/3.0.4 Hello, May I ask if any documentation on Spruce STL is available? I would like to know this : ----------- ------------- However, it would be very nice if there is a full document or any document. Thank you. -- 子曰不而不改是謂過矣니라 공자께서 말씀하시길, 잘못을 하고도 고치지 않는 것, 그것을 잘못이라 한다. - 論語< 衛靈公>편 JongAm Park jongampark(a)sbcglobal.net Visit my personal blog at http://jongampark.blogspot.com Visit my technical blog at http://jongampark.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Specifically, there is some question how STL declares (or can declare?) which CC1/2/3/4, 708-1/2/…/7, or WSS Page 1/…/9FF. There’s a million possibilities, and I had hoped someone wrote a few of them down ;) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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