Re: Understanding FCP and NTSC - add on
Re: Understanding FCP and NTSC - add on
- Subject: Re: Understanding FCP and NTSC - add on
- From: Rainer Standke <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 18:18:53 -0700
Opps, I had not gotten that later part... No real idea why those
sequences would behave that way. However, I do think that you can
force whatever timecode you like on a sequence in FCP, whether it
makes sense or not. HDTV can have NTSC both true and false, as in 24
or 23.976 fps...
Rainer
On Jul 9, 2008, at 8:25 , Andreas Kiel wrote:
Many thanks Rainer,
It helped to make things a bit clearer - anyway:
I think I know about that NTSC DF/NDF and the playback thing. And I
really do understand NTSC.
And it's not about playback. Frames are frames (as with 'roses are
roses'). There is no problem.
My timecode library works perfect, there is no problem at all.
The actual problem/question I got is - how does FCP handle.
It doesn't make sense to me that for example a 30 fps animation
sequence (or HDTV) which is per se non NTSC in FCP always does have
DF timecode in the XML even though it's set to NDF, while the same
sequence set to NTSC and DF has the option to set it to DF or NDF
which both will be reflected in the XML.
Thanks
Andreas
On 09.07.2008, at 16:02, Rainer Standke wrote:
Hi Andreas,
NTSC is the sequence speed, in other words if it's true, then the
actual frame rate is slightly slower than the timebase. Thus 30 fps
becomes 29.97 fps, and 60 fps becomes 59.94 fps. The timebase (i.e.
the method of counting frames, or the frame number before which you
turn over to the next second) remains 30, or 60 fps, respectively.
All of this is distinctly different from DF/NDF, which affects also
the method of counting frames, but in a different way than above.
In DF, 2 frame values are skipped at the top of the minute in 9 out
of 10 minutes, in NDF no values are skipped at all. Note that DF/
NDF does not affect the actual playback speed, while NTSC true or
false does do that.
Hope this helps,
Rainer Standke
XMiL Workflow Tools
http://www.xmil.biz
On Jul 9, 2008, at 4:11 , Andreas Kiel wrote:
Her some more confusion (for me),
Below the start of an XML I got from a customer:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE xmeml>
<xmeml version="1">
<sequence id="MONTAGEM FINAL MIX E COR USO NDF Copy">
<name>MONTAGEM FINAL MIX E COR USO NDF Copy</name>
<duration>26461</duration>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>30</timebase>
</rate>
<timecode>
<rate>
<ntsc>TRUE</ntsc>
<timebase>30</timebase>
</rate>
<string>00:00:00:00</string>
<frame>0</frame>
<source>source</source>
<displayformat>NDF</displayformat>
</timecode> ...
This will be imported as 29.97 frame rate with NDF. If I export as
XML I do see the same. I also can switch in the sequence settings
from DF to NDF.
Using a sequence preset for 30/60 NDF I can't switch between DF/
NDF but the tc in the XML is always DF?????
Using any 29.97/59.94 DF sequence preset I can switch as with the
above example to NDF in FCP and the XML stores the NDF TC flag,
string and frame.
So from what I tested I got now:
if NTSC is "TRUE" then I'm able to see both DF/NDF timecode and
frame and the correct DF/NDF entry
if NTSC is "FALSE" and TC is NDF I always will get DF timecode and
frame - hmmm???
Thanks
Andreas
On 09.07.2008, at 11:46, Andreas Kiel wrote:
Hi all,
I got a bit confused (again) about NTSC and (again) about XML.
a) If I create a timeline using some codec, some size and set the
editing timebase to 60, I get a NDF timecode in FCP (start TC
01:00:00:00)
b) If I create a timeline using some codec, some size and set the
editing timebase to 59.94, I get a DF timecode in FCP (start TC
01:00:00;00)
So far it's easy.
If I create XMLs out of those I got following:
a) editing timebase=60, NTSC=FALSE, timecode=DF
(<string>01:00:00;00</string>)
b) editing timebase=60, NTSC=TRUE, timecode=DF
(<string>01:00:00;00</string>)
If I re-import those XMLs into FCP
a) editing timebase=60, NTSC=FALSE, timecode=NDF (01:00:00:00)
b) editing timebase=60, NTSC=TRUE, timecode=DF (01:00:00;00)
So I am a bit confused about these things. How is it handled?
30/60 always seem to be drop frame internally always, so when
reading out an XML and encode the timecode you will get DF
timecode always.
Depending on what you do with the data this might give you
a) wrong frame numbers when the timecode is converted to frames
(when based on the TC string)
b) wrong TC (when based on frame numbers)
Questions are:
a) can the NTSC flag be ignored and if yes why it is there?
b) why is the "rate" there twice ('main item', timecode entry)
and how do they relate? (Or what's the idea behind)
Maybe somebody can help me out here.
Thanks
Andreas
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Andreas Kiel
Spherico
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eMail: email@hidden
http://spherico.com/filmtools -- workflow tools for FCP
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