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Re: Bug ID 12328202: Quartz Composer Mesh system broken beyond repair.
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Re: Bug ID 12328202: Quartz Composer Mesh system broken beyond repair.

Title: Re: Bug ID 12328202: Quartz Composer Mesh system broken beyond repair.
Thanks for settling this. I realize I made a mistake in posting that to the list - but the tone and randomness of the response came as a shock 

So I apologize for posting - and I am very glad to hear QC is supported in 10.8. 

Iis there any official stance on QC in general? The tone of communications from Apple indicates it is languishing internally (release notes are from 10.6 for example). 

I understand discussion on future developments are not the purview of this list - but the status of a whole API? Any public statement would be most welcome - as many have stated entire applications and technologies would be rendered obsolete with absolutely no clear alternative.

Thanks again for clearing things up- and again I apologize for taking this to the list.  


On Apr 13, 2013, at 2:40 PM, Troy Koelling <email@hidden> wrote:

No, this must have been a mistake. Quartz Composer is not deprecated, and still fully supported in Mountain Lion. The bug reporting system, as you all are aware is like a game of telephone and although I do not know how this could have happened, I apologize for any confusion it has caused. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 13, 2013, at 10:59 AM, George Toledo <email@hidden> wrote:

If QuartzComposer is, in fact, deprecated, I wish to encourage the appropriate representatives from Apple to make a public statement in a timely manner so as to give businesses that use this framework adequate time to refactor their code and find alternatives, if possible. I have the impression of a statement such as this being disclosed in Bug Reporter either means that the employee is either in err, very non-discrete, or that there has been a lack of timely communication between Apple and developers that use this framework about possible deprecation.

I'll apologize in advance for the length of the following, but I think it's relevant and should every word should be carefully considered by whoever is in charge of this issue.

Apple has an amazing technology with QuartzComposer. It's outstanding to be able to make QCPlugins and wrap up code for modular type of reuse. The ability to then be able to string those patches together and use the qtz file itself as a kind of "plugin" adds extreme flexibility that's simply unparalleled. No other Apple framework enables this.
Consider that one could use a GLSL Shader patch, a GLSL Grid, and a Render in Image patch, with published image inputs and outputs, to replace the entire technology of Core Image with greater flexibility, and even more importantly, greater performance. Yet, that's only a sliver of what QuartzComposer actually enables programmers to quickly achieve, with the plus of using vetted pieces of code.

In my time using QuartzComposer, I've used the technology as part of my toolset on projects for Nike, NBCUniversal, The Beastie Boys, Foo Fighters, Bon Jovi, Maroon 5, Prince, and many others. Most of my work is based in OpenGL, so it wouldn't be a big setback to not have QuartzComposer available, but in having used it on many projects I've been able to see what a great system it is and what an amazing technology Apple has. QuartzComposer has helped enable many novel and "first time ever" type events. I've also been able to setup a few things in QC, with the aid of OpenCL or the GLSL patch and hardware integration that are undoubtedly firsts in graphics computing as well as interactive experience.

I've also used openFrameworks, Cinder, Processing, MaxMSP, and other "interactive programming" type frameworks/libraries/systems, and I don't think that any rival the strengths that are inherent to the QC system. Core Animation or SceneKit does not provide any kind of reasonable replacement. The only real replacement is just coding in pure Obj-C/OpenGL, which is ok by me, but probably not a great alternative for many developers who wish for a higher level API.

In considering my use of QuartzComposer, the work of my peers that I directly know, and now seeing things like Facebook's use of QC, it makes me feel as though everyone is in on how great QC is except for Apple. I've seen Apple occasionally looking for people versed in openFrameworks, Processing, Cinder, etc., and it really drives home the point that "the grass is always greener". I've also noted a trend towards integration of QC-like facilities such as LFO, Interpolation, "chaining" shaders, being integrated into shader development environments. With the innovations happening in the realm of ray marching and WebGL, and considering that all of that could be easily programmed and setup in QC, it seems especially out of step for QC to ignore what they have in their hands.

When I really dove into becoming a QuartzComposer power user, I was drawn to the innovation of kineme, and v002, who both made great plugins for QuartzComposer. I guess it's fair to say I became a really vocal kineme user, and have been a regular witness to the talents of Steve Mokris and Chris Wright. Anyone can go to and see the formidable list of QuartzComposer plugins and QuartzComposer based Application that Chris Wright contributed while at kineme.

The last real public murmur I remember about QuartzComposer from Apple, is what I assumed to be a press release about hiring Christopher Wright which mentioned all of this innovation from his work at kineme.

It's staggering then, to consider how far we've come, to where the next public statement is someone who's working Bug Reporter at Apple, making an offhand remark of deprecation when no actual notice has been made to developers, paying or otherwise.

What has happened in the interim? Why has the QuartzComposer technology not moved to iOS? How does a company go from hiring one of the most innovative contributors in a cutting edge technology, and go onto putting maybe 2 or 3 new features into that system in coming years? Did the technology go from being great to suddenly, not? Doubtful. This simply speaks to mismanagement, lack of insight, and mental limitation.

As a consumer of Apple hardware, with my first computing experience being on a Lisa, I have to say, I love Apple stuff. It's great. However, it's not Apple's ads or product announcements that make the public feel like Apple is so relevant and cool; it's the fact that professionals in the realm of entertainment and media actually use Macs for professional activities. The first negative impact in this realm was with the acquisition of Logic and the software getting arguably less full featured. Then of course, the Final Cut X imbroglio, that still seems ongoing with bug fix after bug fix just to not have flashing green frames, not to mention the lack of native ability to load FXPlugins, instead using an odd QC-like with less features (oh the irony) "Motion 5" wrapper file. Now we're at the disclosure of possible QC deprecation, on a bug report regarding what is an embarrassingly easy thing to accomplish (loading 3D models), in a totally offhand and non-discreet way. Less than impressive, to say the least.

Best regards,
George Toledo

On Apr 13, 2013, at 1:13 PM, CoGe - Tamas Nagy <email@hidden> wrote:

I disagree too - I have an app which depends on QC actually...

On Apr 13, 2013, at 5:32 PM, Gordon Apple <email@hidden> wrote:

I disagree with the statement that QC is purely a developer tool.  To some extent, yes.  However, we have a new product coming out where we include QC animated components. We planned on releasing compatible QC templates, which users could use to add their own personalized effects.  If QC goes away, we will be very unhappy.  :-(

On 4/13/13 3:49 AM, "Joshua Sophrin" <email@hidden> wrote:

I could understand this if QC was a
Consumer product. But as it is purely a developer tool, what technology is slated to take its place?

Tamas Nagy | Software Developer - CoGe VJ Software | |

Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Quartzcomposer-dev mailing list (email@hidden) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: This email sent to email@hidden
 >Re: Bug ID 12328202: Quartz Composer Mesh system broken beyond repair. (From: Gordon Apple <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Bug ID 12328202: Quartz Composer Mesh system broken beyond repair. (From: CoGe - Tamas Nagy <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Bug ID 12328202: Quartz Composer Mesh system broken beyond repair. (From: George Toledo <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Bug ID 12328202: Quartz Composer Mesh system broken beyond repair. (From: Troy Koelling <email@hidden>)

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