November 2013 - colorsync-users

RE: NEC wide gamut issue
by Dennis Dunbar 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

Roger, I completely understand that aspect. But from what I've heard the recommended solution for seeing the difference when working on an NEC display is to simply switch settings from Adobe RGB to sRGB when viewing images on the web. My question is less about whether there is something 'wrong' with using the settings in Spectraview, and more about WHY is there a difference when I don't have this problem on my wide gamut Dell? Could it be that calibrating/profiling a different way in Spectraview could solve the problem without the user needing to switch settings constantly? Has anyone tried this? Thanks! Dennis Dunbar 310-463-1677 Blog: http://www.dunbardigital.com/blog/blog.php Website: http://www.dunbardigital.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/DennisDunbar On Nov 20, 2013, at 12:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > I'll bite. To have "parity" between Photoshop and a web browser, both must be on the same playing field, interpreting color the same way. That has nothing to do with one brand of monitor over another. If both the browser and Photoshop are set to interpret color the same way, say through sRGB, then a visual match will be observed. > > There is nothing wrong with the presets that come with Spectraview. They're designed to get you to certain sets of colors without your having to manually dial them down. > > That won't probably help but it's my two cents ;-) > > / Roger

2 1

NEC wide gamut issue
by Dennis Dunbar 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

A few weeks ago I posted a question regarding an issue a photographer I do retouching for was encountering with her NEC display. That issue concerned the difference in how images appeared when displayed in Photoshop versus a web browser, when she calibrated/profiled her monitor using the Adobe RGB setting images that looked fine in Photoshop would look overly saturated and Red when viewed on the web using that display. From the responses I saw this seems to be a common problem, but one that still puzzles me because my wide Gamut Dell does not show this problem. But last week I heard from another retoucher friend who has a wide gamut NEC display who told me he also does not see a difference on his NEC, the difference here seems to be that he's not using the Adobe RGB setting. When calibrating/profiling his NEC he's setting the White Point, Gamma and luminance to his preferences instead of using their Presets. Has anyone else here tried calibrating an NEC display this way? And if so does that indeed "solve" the problem of images appearing different in Photoshop vs web browsers? And if so, what is the advantage to using SpectraView's presets? Thanks! Dennis Dunbar 310-463-1677 Blog: http://www.dunbardigital.com/blog/blog.php Website: http://www.dunbardigital.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/DennisDunbar

3 2

Soft Proofing with White Border
by Ken Fleisher 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

It is recommended that when you soft proof an image on screen compared to a print on white paper (or predicting the print on white paper), that you have a minimum 1" white border surrounding the image on screen. Does anyone know of a good link to a (preferably) non-profit web site that explains in plain English why this is necessary? I need to supply a good reference for it and the link I had been using has gone dead. Thanks! Ken Fleisher

4 4

Re: Acrobat 10/11 Mac OS 10.8 color management break/fix
by Thom Schroeder 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

>Interesting but that little utility scares the hell out of me. Haha - no kidding Steve right!? I had the same initial reactionŠ and certainly a name that exuded a touch more confidence could have been chosen. But I'm not too worried about it since we're only using it on the machine we use to soft-proof with Acrobat. Without thisŠ we wouldn't be able to do so (without reverting either OS or Acrobat to a previous version - not easy with an IT department) and that would have me in more of a tizzy than the name of the utility. Cheers_thom

1 0

Light indicator band issues.
by Claas Bickeböller 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

Hi Axel, almost correct :-) D50 has a correlated color temperature of 5003K. Having a CCT of 5003K does not ensure that the light source matches CIE D50, correct. That's why normally you would state the ∆uv (distance from planckian locus) along with a CCT. See also page 14 of the PDF here: http://www.konicaminolta.eu/en/measuring-instruments/learning-centre/light-… Claas > > Am 20.11.2013 um 09:27 schrieb Axel Robert <axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com>: > >> Hello Claas, >> >> I hope you're doing well. :-) >> >> After having read your explanations and those of Graeme, D50 equal 5000 K but 5000 K doesn't equal D50, right? >> >> Axel >> >> De : "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com>> >> Répondre à : "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> >> Date : lundi 18 novembre 2013 21:00 >> À : "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> >> Objet : Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 10, Issue 238 >> >> Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to >> colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com> >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-owner@lists.apple.com> >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Suggestions for a color accurate image browser (Matthew Ward) >> 2. Light indicator band issues. (Axel Robert) >> 3. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Graeme Gill) >> 4. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Mark Stegman) >> 5. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Claas Bickeböller) >> 6. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Daniel Westcott) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:28:09 +0000 >> From: Matthew Ward <matthew(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:matthew@matthewwardphotography.com>> >> To: Peter Miles <P.Miles(a)massey.ac.nz<mailto:P.Miles@massey.ac.nz>> >> Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> >> Subject: Re: Suggestions for a color accurate image browser >> Message-ID: >> <252ABC35-B39C-47B8-8EE5-D40E02960B9F(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:252ABC35-B39C-47B8-8EE5-D40E02960B9F@matthewwardphotography.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Hi >> you could try to make your own ProPhoto thumbnail images using something like Photoshop > File > Scripts > Image processor >> and replace them in the Cache? >> Bit of a faff but would probably work? >> >> Best >> Matthew >> >> On 12 Nov 2013, at 21:04, Peter Miles <P.Miles(a)massey.ac.nz<mailto:P.Miles@massey.ac.nz>> wrote: >> >> Rick Gordon wrote: >> If you choose high-quality thumbnail from under the Thumbnail Quality icon, they should be color-managed. Mine are. >> From http://help.adobe.com/en_US/creativesuite/cs/using/WS308E3BB0-4D80-4940-A77… >> Thanks Gordon. >> Hmm... >> Version 5.1 does not have those icons that are refereed to in the text that I can see.. >> I can not speak for Bridge version 6 or CC. But for version 5.1 I can confirm whats on the adobe forum (see snip below). That bridge previews are in the sRGB color space. >> Bridge previews of my ProPhotoRGB images might be color managed, but in Bridge 5.1 they are a color managed conversion of my ProPhotoRGB images into the sRGB colorspace for thumbnails. I can confirm this for my self by going to my ~HomeDirectory/Library/caches/Adobe/Bridge CS5/Cache, locate the cached thumbnails for my ProPhotoRGB images. If I open them in photoshop, It warns me they have an embedded sRGB profile. >> I am working with highly saturated microscope images using rheinberg illumination. You can see the color differences between bridge view and photoshop that I am getting here http://tinyurl.com/n79lt83 . >> I have located the corresponding thumbnail in my Bridge cache folder and can confirm that the bridge thumbnail for this image is sRGB. Further the photoshop and bridge views match if I soft proof sRGB. >> Can anyone with Bridge CC or 6 confirm that they are seeing their ProphotoRGB image Bridge Cache files are in the sRGB color space. Or are your Bridge 6 or Bridge CC Cache files for your ProphotoRGB images also in the ProPhoto colorspace? >> I'd love to find a way to get bridge to display these microscope images the same color as they are when opened in photoshop. >> Regards >> Peter Miles >> snip from Adobe Forums... >> "For anyone following this thread, just a heads-up for future reference. It's been confirmed all previews in Bridge are in fact in sRGB. It's a bit surprising, but apparently true. More details at this thread." (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5180301#5180301) >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/matthew%40matthewwa… >> This email sent to matthew(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:matthew@matthewwardphotography.com> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:24:04 +0100 >> From: Axel Robert <axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> >> To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" >> <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> >> Subject: Light indicator band issues. >> Message-ID: <CEAFA591.1CF08%axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com<mailto:CEAFA591.1CF08%axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" >> >> Dear all, >> >> I experience some problems with different light indicators like : >> >> PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers >> >> PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator >> >> Ugra/Fogra light indicator >> >> Each one appears slightly different under the same light. >> E.g. with a colorCommunicator and fluorescent tubes 5000 K. >> >> >> Has anybody already seen this issue before? >> >> Is it possible to obtain non uniform results? >> >> Could I trust them to put them on the digital proof prints? >> >> >> Many thanks beforehand for your explanations >> sincerely, >> >> Axel Robert | UBISOFT >> Tel. : +33 (0)1 48 18 52 03 | Port. : +33 (0)6 68 83 34 67 | Skype: axelprepress >> >> >> ”It is important that you know where you come from, because if you do not know where you come from, >> >> then you don’t know where you are, and if you don’t know where you are, then you don’t know where you’re going. >> >> And if you don’t know where you’re going, you’re probably going wrong .” >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 23:32:47 +1100 >> From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> >> To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> >> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. >> Message-ID: <528A08EF.2030006(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:528A08EF.2030006@argyllcms.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> Axel Robert wrote: >> Dear all, >> I experience some problems with different light indicators like : >> PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers >> PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator >> Ugra/Fogra light indicator >> >> Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, >> and under what conditions they "work". >> >> The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) >> standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, >> but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual >> metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color >> temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. >> >> Graeme Gill. >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 00:04:50 +1100 >> From: Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>> >> To: "graeme(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme@argyllcms.com>" <graeme(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme@argyllcms.com>> >> Cc: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> >> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. >> Message-ID: <2A642C5E-32C9-48A5-B544-5717FB2A4B45(a)gmail.com<mailto:2A642C5E-32C9-48A5-B544-5717FB2A4B45@gmail.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> Graeme, >> >> You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. >> >> What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? >> >> If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? >> >> Mark >> >> On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: >> >> Axel Robert wrote: >> Dear all, >> I experience some problems with different light indicators like : >> PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers >> PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator >> Ugra/Fogra light indicator >> Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, >> and under what conditions they "work". >> The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) >> standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, >> but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual >> metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color >> temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. >> Graeme Gill. >> >> Mark >> >> This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:27:57 +0100 >> From: Claas Bickeböller <lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>> >> To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> >> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. >> Message-ID: <76B1FC08-CDAC-403E-A56F-9770F4C363A0(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:76B1FC08-CDAC-403E-A56F-9770F4C363A0@bickeboeller.name>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Dear all, >> >> these indicators are good tools to warn you if you are in non D50 light. >> They are not suitable to determine if you have a good D50 simulator. >> >> If you do not see or only barely visible differences it _could_ be that you have a good D50 simulation. >> >> If you see big differences between the metameric pairs you definitely do not have a suitable D50 simulation. >> >> The second application is what these strips are meant for, the first not. >> >> Best regards >> >> Claas >> >> Am 18.11.2013 um 14:04 schrieb Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>>: >> >> Graeme, >> You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. >> What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? >> If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? >> Mark >> On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: >> Axel Robert wrote: >> Dear all, >> I experience some problems with different light indicators like : >> PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers >> PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator >> Ugra/Fogra light indicator >> Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, >> and under what conditions they "work". >> The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) >> standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, >> but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual >> metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color >> temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. >> Graeme Gill. >> Mark >> This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/lists%40bickeboelle… >> This email sent to lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:45:10 -0700 >> From: Daniel Westcott <daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us>> >> To: lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>, colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> >> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. >> Message-ID: <5jwmuus5uxoq9t3yyupigexf.1384800310066(a)email.android.com<mailto:5jwmuus5uxoq9t3yyupigexf.1384800310066@email.android.com>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> I believe Graeme is eluding to the fact that color temperature does not speak to speak distribution; so while D50 is a standard with a specific distribution and as such has a color temperature, one cannot make the inference (as it seems the language on the pantone has done) that because the temperature is 5000K the spectral distribution has any specific character. >> >> These test strips are useful to show clients when the lights in their office are inadequate for proofing purposes and can accomplish that task quite nicely. Most people do not understand that there is a difference but the seeming magic of these strips can quickly open the eyes of most clients as to why we insist on a light booth with a standardized light source for contact proofing. >> >> Cheers >> Daniel >> >> Perfect logic is meaningless without perfect perspective. >> >> Daniel Westcott >> daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Claas Bickeböller <lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>> >> Date: 11/18/2013 8:27 AM (GMT-07:00) >> To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> >> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. >> Dear all, >> >> these indicators are good tools to warn you if you are in non D50 light. >> They are not suitable to determine if you have a good D50 simulator. >> >> If you do not see or only barely visible differences it _could_ be that you have a good D50 simulation. >> >> If you see big differences between the metameric pairs you definitely do not have a suitable D50 simulation. >> >> The second application is what these strips are meant for, the first not. >> >> Best regards >> >> Claas >> >> Am 18.11.2013 um 14:04 schrieb Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>>: >> >> Graeme, >> You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. >> What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? >> If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? >> Mark >> On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: >> Axel Robert wrote: >> Dear all, >> I experience some problems with different light indicators like : >> PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers >> PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator >> Ugra/Fogra light indicator >> Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, >> and under what conditions they "work". >> The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) >> standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, >> but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual >> metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color >> temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. >> Graeme Gill. >> Mark >> This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/lists%40bickeboelle… >> This email sent to lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/daniel%40westcott.us >> >> This email sent to daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Colorsync-users mailing list >> Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users >> >> End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 10, Issue 238 >> ************************************************ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/lists%40bickeboelle… >> >> This email sent to lists(a)bickeboeller.name >

1 0

Re: Light indicator band issues.
by Axel Robert 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

Hello Claas, I hope you're doing well. :-) After having read your explanations and those of Graeme, D50 equal 5000 K but 5000 K doesn't equal D50, right? Axel De : "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com>> Répondre à : "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Date : lundi 18 novembre 2013 21:00 À : "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Objet : Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 10, Issue 238 Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com> You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-owner@lists.apple.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Suggestions for a color accurate image browser (Matthew Ward) 2. Light indicator band issues. (Axel Robert) 3. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Graeme Gill) 4. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Mark Stegman) 5. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Claas Bickeböller) 6. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Daniel Westcott) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:28:09 +0000 From: Matthew Ward <matthew(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:matthew@matthewwardphotography.com>> To: Peter Miles <P.Miles(a)massey.ac.nz<mailto:P.Miles@massey.ac.nz>> Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Suggestions for a color accurate image browser Message-ID: <252ABC35-B39C-47B8-8EE5-D40E02960B9F(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:252ABC35-B39C-47B8-8EE5-D40E02960B9F@matthewwardphotography.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi you could try to make your own ProPhoto thumbnail images using something like Photoshop > File > Scripts > Image processor and replace them in the Cache? Bit of a faff but would probably work? Best Matthew On 12 Nov 2013, at 21:04, Peter Miles <P.Miles(a)massey.ac.nz<mailto:P.Miles@massey.ac.nz>> wrote: Rick Gordon wrote: If you choose high-quality thumbnail from under the Thumbnail Quality icon, they should be color-managed. Mine are. >From http://help.adobe.com/en_US/creativesuite/cs/using/WS308E3BB0-4D80-4940-A77… Thanks Gordon. Hmm... Version 5.1 does not have those icons that are refereed to in the text that I can see.. I can not speak for Bridge version 6 or CC. But for version 5.1 I can confirm whats on the adobe forum (see snip below). That bridge previews are in the sRGB color space. Bridge previews of my ProPhotoRGB images might be color managed, but in Bridge 5.1 they are a color managed conversion of my ProPhotoRGB images into the sRGB colorspace for thumbnails. I can confirm this for my self by going to my ~HomeDirectory/Library/caches/Adobe/Bridge CS5/Cache, locate the cached thumbnails for my ProPhotoRGB images. If I open them in photoshop, It warns me they have an embedded sRGB profile. I am working with highly saturated microscope images using rheinberg illumination. You can see the color differences between bridge view and photoshop that I am getting here http://tinyurl.com/n79lt83 . I have located the corresponding thumbnail in my Bridge cache folder and can confirm that the bridge thumbnail for this image is sRGB. Further the photoshop and bridge views match if I soft proof sRGB. Can anyone with Bridge CC or 6 confirm that they are seeing their ProphotoRGB image Bridge Cache files are in the sRGB color space. Or are your Bridge 6 or Bridge CC Cache files for your ProphotoRGB images also in the ProPhoto colorspace? I'd love to find a way to get bridge to display these microscope images the same color as they are when opened in photoshop. Regards Peter Miles snip from Adobe Forums... "For anyone following this thread, just a heads-up for future reference. It's been confirmed all previews in Bridge are in fact in sRGB. It's a bit surprising, but apparently true. More details at this thread." (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5180301#5180301) _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/matthew%40matthewwa… This email sent to matthew(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:matthew@matthewwardphotography.com> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:24:04 +0100 From: Axel Robert <axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <CEAFA591.1CF08%axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com<mailto:CEAFA591.1CF08%axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Each one appears slightly different under the same light. E.g. with a colorCommunicator and fluorescent tubes 5000 K. Has anybody already seen this issue before? Is it possible to obtain non uniform results? Could I trust them to put them on the digital proof prints? Many thanks beforehand for your explanations sincerely, Axel Robert | UBISOFT Tel. : +33 (0)1 48 18 52 03 | Port. : +33 (0)6 68 83 34 67 | Skype: axelprepress ”It is important that you know where you come from, because if you do not know where you come from, then you don’t know where you are, and if you don’t know where you are, then you don’t know where you’re going. And if you don’t know where you’re going, you’re probably going wrong .” ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 23:32:47 +1100 From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <528A08EF.2030006(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:528A08EF.2030006@argyllcms.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Axel Robert wrote: Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, and under what conditions they "work". The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. Graeme Gill. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 00:04:50 +1100 From: Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>> To: "graeme(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme@argyllcms.com>" <graeme(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme@argyllcms.com>> Cc: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <2A642C5E-32C9-48A5-B544-5717FB2A4B45(a)gmail.com<mailto:2A642C5E-32C9-48A5-B544-5717FB2A4B45@gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Graeme, You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? Mark On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: Axel Robert wrote: Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, and under what conditions they "work". The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. Graeme Gill. Mark This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:27:57 +0100 From: Claas Bickeböller <lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>> To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <76B1FC08-CDAC-403E-A56F-9770F4C363A0(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:76B1FC08-CDAC-403E-A56F-9770F4C363A0@bickeboeller.name>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear all, these indicators are good tools to warn you if you are in non D50 light. They are not suitable to determine if you have a good D50 simulator. If you do not see or only barely visible differences it _could_ be that you have a good D50 simulation. If you see big differences between the metameric pairs you definitely do not have a suitable D50 simulation. The second application is what these strips are meant for, the first not. Best regards Claas Am 18.11.2013 um 14:04 schrieb Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>>: Graeme, You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? Mark On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: Axel Robert wrote: Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, and under what conditions they "work". The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. Graeme Gill. Mark This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/lists%40bickeboelle… This email sent to lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:45:10 -0700 From: Daniel Westcott <daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us>> To: lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>, colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <5jwmuus5uxoq9t3yyupigexf.1384800310066(a)email.android.com<mailto:5jwmuus5uxoq9t3yyupigexf.1384800310066@email.android.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I believe Graeme is eluding to the fact that color temperature does not speak to speak distribution; so while D50 is a standard with a specific distribution and as such has a color temperature, one cannot make the inference (as it seems the language on the pantone has done) that because the temperature is 5000K the spectral distribution has any specific character. These test strips are useful to show clients when the lights in their office are inadequate for proofing purposes and can accomplish that task quite nicely. Most people do not understand that there is a difference but the seeming magic of these strips can quickly open the eyes of most clients as to why we insist on a light booth with a standardized light source for contact proofing. Cheers Daniel Perfect logic is meaningless without perfect perspective. Daniel Westcott daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us> -------- Original message -------- From: Claas Bickeböller <lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>> Date: 11/18/2013 8:27 AM (GMT-07:00) To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Dear all, these indicators are good tools to warn you if you are in non D50 light. They are not suitable to determine if you have a good D50 simulator. If you do not see or only barely visible differences it _could_ be that you have a good D50 simulation. If you see big differences between the metameric pairs you definitely do not have a suitable D50 simulation. The second application is what these strips are meant for, the first not. Best regards Claas Am 18.11.2013 um 14:04 schrieb Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>>: Graeme, You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? Mark On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: Axel Robert wrote: Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, and under what conditions they "work". The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. Graeme Gill. Mark This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/lists%40bickeboelle… This email sent to lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/daniel%40westcott.us This email sent to daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Colorsync-users mailing list Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 10, Issue 238 ************************************************

1 0

Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 10, Issue 238
by Axel Robert 20 Nov '13

20 Nov '13

Dear all, So if I understand well your explanations and I resume them, these several light indicator are just intended for a customer educational purpose, right? If so, why they don't appear equal under a standard illuminant? I don't agree with you Class, when you asses I am using a wrong D50 simulation solution. Unless JustNormlicht is not able to develop consistent viewing booth with good fluorescents tube… I will be a little disappointing for the customer, after all these explanations. After all, if I force the internal Marketing team to only see our digital proofs under a controlled system, what can I answer if they always show differences with the Light Indicators? For the anecdote, I spent time, at the last DRUPA, on one of the light booth vendors stand. They demonstrate their precise spectrometer, to evaluate the conformity of their own light according to the ISO 3364 standard. Even with a new viewing booth and new Daylight 5000K tubes, the results were not ok for all the measure. So, who is to believed? Axel De : "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com>> Répondre à : "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Date : lundi 18 novembre 2013 21:00 À : "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Objet : Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 10, Issue 238 Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-request@lists.apple.com> You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users-owner@lists.apple.com> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Suggestions for a color accurate image browser (Matthew Ward) 2. Light indicator band issues. (Axel Robert) 3. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Graeme Gill) 4. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Mark Stegman) 5. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Claas Bickeböller) 6. Re: Light indicator band issues. (Daniel Westcott) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:28:09 +0000 From: Matthew Ward <matthew(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:matthew@matthewwardphotography.com>> To: Peter Miles <P.Miles(a)massey.ac.nz<mailto:P.Miles@massey.ac.nz>> Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Suggestions for a color accurate image browser Message-ID: <252ABC35-B39C-47B8-8EE5-D40E02960B9F(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:252ABC35-B39C-47B8-8EE5-D40E02960B9F@matthewwardphotography.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi you could try to make your own ProPhoto thumbnail images using something like Photoshop > File > Scripts > Image processor and replace them in the Cache? Bit of a faff but would probably work? Best Matthew On 12 Nov 2013, at 21:04, Peter Miles <P.Miles(a)massey.ac.nz<mailto:P.Miles@massey.ac.nz>> wrote: Rick Gordon wrote: If you choose high-quality thumbnail from under the Thumbnail Quality icon, they should be color-managed. Mine are. >From http://help.adobe.com/en_US/creativesuite/cs/using/WS308E3BB0-4D80-4940-A77… Thanks Gordon. Hmm... Version 5.1 does not have those icons that are refereed to in the text that I can see.. I can not speak for Bridge version 6 or CC. But for version 5.1 I can confirm whats on the adobe forum (see snip below). That bridge previews are in the sRGB color space. Bridge previews of my ProPhotoRGB images might be color managed, but in Bridge 5.1 they are a color managed conversion of my ProPhotoRGB images into the sRGB colorspace for thumbnails. I can confirm this for my self by going to my ~HomeDirectory/Library/caches/Adobe/Bridge CS5/Cache, locate the cached thumbnails for my ProPhotoRGB images. If I open them in photoshop, It warns me they have an embedded sRGB profile. I am working with highly saturated microscope images using rheinberg illumination. You can see the color differences between bridge view and photoshop that I am getting here http://tinyurl.com/n79lt83 . I have located the corresponding thumbnail in my Bridge cache folder and can confirm that the bridge thumbnail for this image is sRGB. Further the photoshop and bridge views match if I soft proof sRGB. Can anyone with Bridge CC or 6 confirm that they are seeing their ProphotoRGB image Bridge Cache files are in the sRGB color space. Or are your Bridge 6 or Bridge CC Cache files for your ProphotoRGB images also in the ProPhoto colorspace? I'd love to find a way to get bridge to display these microscope images the same color as they are when opened in photoshop. Regards Peter Miles snip from Adobe Forums... "For anyone following this thread, just a heads-up for future reference. It's been confirmed all previews in Bridge are in fact in sRGB. It's a bit surprising, but apparently true. More details at this thread." (http://forums.adobe.com/message/5180301#5180301) _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/matthew%40matthewwa… This email sent to matthew(a)matthewwardphotography.com<mailto:matthew@matthewwardphotography.com> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:24:04 +0100 From: Axel Robert <axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com<mailto:axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> To: "colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <CEAFA591.1CF08%axel.robert(a)ubisoft.com<mailto:CEAFA591.1CF08%axel.robert@ubisoft.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Each one appears slightly different under the same light. E.g. with a colorCommunicator and fluorescent tubes 5000 K. Has anybody already seen this issue before? Is it possible to obtain non uniform results? Could I trust them to put them on the digital proof prints? Many thanks beforehand for your explanations sincerely, Axel Robert | UBISOFT Tel. : +33 (0)1 48 18 52 03 | Port. : +33 (0)6 68 83 34 67 | Skype: axelprepress ”It is important that you know where you come from, because if you do not know where you come from, then you don’t know where you are, and if you don’t know where you are, then you don’t know where you’re going. And if you don’t know where you’re going, you’re probably going wrong .” ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 23:32:47 +1100 From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <528A08EF.2030006(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:528A08EF.2030006@argyllcms.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Axel Robert wrote: Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, and under what conditions they "work". The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. Graeme Gill. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 00:04:50 +1100 From: Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>> To: "graeme(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme@argyllcms.com>" <graeme(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme@argyllcms.com>> Cc: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <2A642C5E-32C9-48A5-B544-5717FB2A4B45(a)gmail.com<mailto:2A642C5E-32C9-48A5-B544-5717FB2A4B45@gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Graeme, You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? Mark On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: Axel Robert wrote: Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, and under what conditions they "work". The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. Graeme Gill. Mark This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:27:57 +0100 From: Claas Bickeböller <lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>> To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <76B1FC08-CDAC-403E-A56F-9770F4C363A0(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:76B1FC08-CDAC-403E-A56F-9770F4C363A0@bickeboeller.name>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear all, these indicators are good tools to warn you if you are in non D50 light. They are not suitable to determine if you have a good D50 simulator. If you do not see or only barely visible differences it _could_ be that you have a good D50 simulation. If you see big differences between the metameric pairs you definitely do not have a suitable D50 simulation. The second application is what these strips are meant for, the first not. Best regards Claas Am 18.11.2013 um 14:04 schrieb Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>>: Graeme, You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? Mark On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: Axel Robert wrote: Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, and under what conditions they "work". The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. Graeme Gill. Mark This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/lists%40bickeboelle… This email sent to lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:45:10 -0700 From: Daniel Westcott <daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us>> To: lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>, colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Message-ID: <5jwmuus5uxoq9t3yyupigexf.1384800310066(a)email.android.com<mailto:5jwmuus5uxoq9t3yyupigexf.1384800310066@email.android.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I believe Graeme is eluding to the fact that color temperature does not speak to speak distribution; so while D50 is a standard with a specific distribution and as such has a color temperature, one cannot make the inference (as it seems the language on the pantone has done) that because the temperature is 5000K the spectral distribution has any specific character. These test strips are useful to show clients when the lights in their office are inadequate for proofing purposes and can accomplish that task quite nicely. Most people do not understand that there is a difference but the seeming magic of these strips can quickly open the eyes of most clients as to why we insist on a light booth with a standardized light source for contact proofing. Cheers Daniel Perfect logic is meaningless without perfect perspective. Daniel Westcott daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us> -------- Original message -------- From: Claas Bickeböller <lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name>> Date: 11/18/2013 8:27 AM (GMT-07:00) To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> Subject: Re: Light indicator band issues. Dear all, these indicators are good tools to warn you if you are in non D50 light. They are not suitable to determine if you have a good D50 simulator. If you do not see or only barely visible differences it _could_ be that you have a good D50 simulation. If you see big differences between the metameric pairs you definitely do not have a suitable D50 simulation. The second application is what these strips are meant for, the first not. Best regards Claas Am 18.11.2013 um 14:04 schrieb Mark Stegman <mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com>>: Graeme, You are teasing us. Please elaborate. I had the same 'ambitions' as Axel but only mirrored his disappointment. What exactly is 'sufficient' to achieve a match with a metameric pair? If these things are so inadequate why does UGRA/FOGRA/GATF market them? Mark On 18/11/2013, at 11:32 PM, Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com<mailto:graeme2@argyllcms.com>> wrote: Axel Robert wrote: Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Those indicators seem incredibly vague in what they are supposed to do, and under what conditions they "work". The Pantone indicator talks about "being viewed under a 5000K (degrees Kelvin) standard light source.", and the others use similar terminology, but this is nonsense - such indicators depend on the colors being visual metamers under a certain light _spectrum_. Merely being the right color temperature is not sufficient to guarantee a match. Graeme Gill. Mark This email sent to mark.stegman(a)gmail.com<mailto:mark.stegman@gmail.com> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/lists%40bickeboelle… This email sent to lists(a)bickeboeller.name<mailto:lists@bickeboeller.name> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/daniel%40westcott.us This email sent to daniel(a)westcott.us<mailto:daniel@westcott.us> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Colorsync-users mailing list Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com<mailto:Colorsync-users@lists.apple.com> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 10, Issue 238 ************************************************

2 1

Acrobat 10/11 Mac OS 10.8 color management break/fix
by Thom Schroeder 19 Nov '13

19 Nov '13

Hey list - Just posting an FYI… we just moved to Mountain Lion and discovered the apparently-well-documented-since-about-a-year-and-a-half-ago break between the OS and Acrobat 10/11 where PDFs display unsaturated (like an apply sRGB is being made). I read on a blog post about a little utility called ColorFaker so downloaded and installed and it totally solved the issue. I've no idea when this little gem was released but regardless… it's nice to know someone can move faster than others… https://github.com/iccir/ColorFaker Cheers_thom --- thom schroeder | marketing premedia | recreational equipment, inc.

3 2

Light indicator band issues.
by Axel Robert 18 Nov '13

18 Nov '13

Dear all, I experience some problems with different light indicators like : PANTONE® LIGHTING INDICATOR Stickers PIA/GATF RHEM Light Indicator Ugra/Fogra light indicator Each one appears slightly different under the same light. E.g. with a colorCommunicator and fluorescent tubes 5000 K. Has anybody already seen this issue before? Is it possible to obtain non uniform results? Could I trust them to put them on the digital proof prints? Many thanks beforehand for your explanations sincerely, Axel Robert | UBISOFT Tel. : +33 (0)1 48 18 52 03 | Port. : +33 (0)6 68 83 34 67 | Skype: axelprepress ”It is important that you know where you come from, because if you do not know where you come from, then you don’t know where you are, and if you don’t know where you are, then you don’t know where you’re going. And if you don’t know where you’re going, you’re probably going wrong .”

4 4

HELP UNSUBSCRIBE
by THOUSER1＠aol.com 18 Nov '13

18 Nov '13

1 0