July 2013 - colorsync-users

Image not change values when paper profiled applied
by Millers' Photography L.L.C. 26 Jul '13

26 Jul '13

I develop my raw digital file, see it in PS CS5, then apply my custom .icc paper profile. This of course shows me what the final printed file will (almost) look like. The digital file includes the 24 patch passport color checker, as part of the total image. This way I can adjust the white balance with gray patch under the yellow patch. When I do this I have not yet applied the paper profile. All is well and good. Then the paper profile is applied and the image on the monitor (NEC MULTISYNC PA 271W) changes to show what the printed image might look like. Okay. What I cannot understand is why the values on the gray patch are still the same as without the paper profile applied. With eye dropper on the gray patch or on the sky or anywhere, there is no change in the values. I assume with paper profiled applied there would be a real change. I can have the eye dropper on one spot on the monitor, apple and take away and apply again, and values don't change. What does change, is my visual perception of the image. And not the actual values. How do I make it so the gray patch is actually valid and making a change when I use the paper profile? OS Snow Leopard, MacBook Pro 8,3, 16 bit RGB image. Monitor, printer, camera/lens/sensor/light: All custom .icc profiled by me. David B Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. dba Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center Bellingham, WA www.spinnakerphotoimagingcenter.com 360 739 2826

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Re: Image not change values when paper profiled applied
by Millers' Photography L.L.C. 26 Jul '13

26 Jul '13

Good thought. What I am doing is going to view, go to the paper profile, click. This is the same as command y once the paper profile is chosen David On Jul 26, 2013, at 8:39 AM, Karl Koch <kk(a)basICColor.de> wrote: > David, > > you obviously assign the paper profile, which doesn´t change anything in the data. > If you convert to profile you can see the changes in the eyedropper in real time, even in the preview. > > Best regards > Karl Koch > > Am 26.07.2013 um 17:31 schrieb Millers' Photography L.L.C. <digitalimaging(a)dnmillerphoto.com>: > >> I develop my raw digital file, see it in PS CS5, then apply my custom .icc paper profile. This of course shows me what the final printed file will (almost) look like. >> >> The digital file includes the 24 patch passport color checker, as part of the total image. This way I can adjust the white balance with gray patch under the yellow patch. When I do this I have not >> yet applied the paper profile. >> >> All is well and good. >> >> Then the paper profile is applied and the image on the monitor (NEC MULTISYNC PA 271W) changes to show what the printed image might look like. Okay. What I cannot understand is why >> the values on the gray patch are still the same as without the paper profile applied. With eye dropper on the gray patch or on the sky or anywhere, there is no change in the values. >> >> I assume with paper profiled applied there would be a real change. >> >> I can have the eye dropper on one spot on the monitor, apple and take away and apply again, and values don't change. What does change, is my visual perception of the image. And not >> the actual values. >> >> How do I make it so the gray patch is actually valid and making a change when I use the paper profile? >> >> OS Snow Leopard, MacBook Pro 8,3, 16 bit RGB image. >> >> Monitor, printer, camera/lens/sensor/light: All custom .icc profiled by me. >> >> David B Miller, Pharm. D. >> member >> Millers' Photography L.L.C. >> dba Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center >> Bellingham, WA >> www.spinnakerphotoimagingcenter.com >> 360 739 2826 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/basicc%40me.com >> >> This email sent to basicc(a)me.com >

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Color Perception: How does coffee affect color perception?
by Millers' Photography L.L.C. 23 Jul '13

23 Jul '13

Might not be appropriate in this list…….however: Color perception. What drinks like coffee, or foods affect color perception? In what manner? David B Miller, Pharm. D. member Millers' Photography L.L.C. dba Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center Bellingham, WA 360 739 2826

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Re: Strange strip reading results in EFI eXpress/EFI XF
by vaclavicek 22 Jul '13

22 Jul '13

Hi Kamil, I have some experience with both versions of Efi RIP but I¹m not sure if can repeat your test in next days... /anyway I don¹t preffer use Efi tools for measure anything :-) > " just curious, how can be measurements soooo different????" But what is more important, that measurement of light is completely something else than measurement od solid materials and the second and most important thing that your measurement is "colorimetry" (measurement of something virtual what we call "human color perception"). We can imagine it as something similar to music recorded in notes - it looks very uniquely determined but at the end we can get many interpretations of it. It¹s not too big surprise to get different results in interpretation by different apps on different operating system. Calculations in color management depends usually on libraries and other parts in chain. I understand your expectation in versions of application from one vendor Efi... generaly I can recommend only one thing for measurement consistency - use only one tool set (measurement device + application) for continuous compared measurements or archiving. Radim On 19.7.13 21:00, "colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com" <colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > just curious, how can be measurements soooo different????

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Re: Strange strip reading results in EFI eXpress/EFI XF
by Kamil Tresnak 22 Jul '13

22 Jul '13

Hi all, thank you Terence, Claas, Michael, Raimar and Karl for valuable input. It seems reasonable that there may be a link with the difference in measurements by GMDI (Express) and XRDA (XF). I'll try it and will post the result. Regards, Kamil ______________________________________________________________ > Od: "Karl Koch" <karl.koch(a)basiccolor.de> > Komu: <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Datum: 22.07.2013 09:35 > Předmět: Re: Strange strip reading results in EFI eXpress/EFI XF > > CC: "Terence Wyse" <wyseconsul(a)mac.com> >Hi Kamil, > >I´d rather check the calibration standards used for the i1 in XF vs. eXpress. >The original 1i Pro was calibrated to the so called GMDI standard. (Long) after the merger/acquisition, X-Rite and GMB unified their previously different calibration standards and hyped it as the new industry standard named XRGA (brilliant marketing, BTW). >Still, your differences seem a bit large because the difference induced by the different calibration standards should be less than DeltaE 2. But if your deviation from the reference and the calibration differences point in the same direction, different calibrations are not to be ruled out as the cause of these relatively huge differences. >You´have to check with EFI, which i1 drivers they are using in their software. > >Karl > >Am 19.07.2013 um 18:51 schrieb Terence Wyse <wyseconsul(a)mac.com>: > >> Same strip.....but you must have two different sets of references......either that or your strip is changing by a HUGE amount due to dry-back. Print 2 copies of the strip, wait for exactly the same amount of time before measuring. >> >> What printers and media are you using? >> >> terry >> >> >> On Jul 19, 2013, at 12:06 PM, Kamil Tresnak <kamil.tresnak(a)centrum.cz> wrote: >> >>> sorry if due to my english i was not accurate ... this is ONE strip, physically just one piece, which i am measuring in both applications - in few minutes, with same device and same others conditions, standards etc ... just curious, how can be measurements soooo different???? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Colorsync-users mailing list (Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/basicc%40me.com >> >> This email sent to basicc(a)me.com > >

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Strange strip reading results in EFI eXpress/EFI XF
by Kamil Tresnak 19 Jul '13

19 Jul '13

Dear all, i have strange problem with stripe validating with EFI. In short and without exact details: one printed strip (no matter if Fogra 2/3) same device Eye1Pro revD, UVcut XF installed on Win7, eXpress installed on two computers, Win7 and on Mac, all in latest versions When i measure strip in EFI eXpress and in EFI XF, i am getting very different results. I mean values appearing on label - typically (cca) paper dE 0.73 vs 3.55, magenta 2,2 vs 4.5, same difference in yellow. Small dE (approx dE1,5) difference for K and C. Biggest values are for eXpress. Strip is 2 or more days old, i make repeated measurements in short time (in minutes, just to swap measurement unit between computers, and start software). Measurement in each application are consistent. No matter if target values are computed from profile or using included fogra definiton MK file (even if using SAME fogra definiton MK file in both apps). Note please, i am not talking about color precision of printed proof, printed sample is exactly the same for all measurements. I am hoping for answre form anybody with real access to both applications, which can repeat my test ... Best regards, KamilT

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Confirmed highest accuracy CMM setup?
by andre ribuoli 17 Jul '13

17 Jul '13

Hi group, I've located outdated hardware/software combo reviews, but I can't locate any fairly current comparisons that rate the most accurate printer output spectrophotometer/CMM profile building software. If this kind of test hasn't been performed, then perhaps some of you could rank the number 1 setup you'd suggest from my hardware/software, and your top choice of hardware/software. -From this group, it's been said the SpectroScan vs. i1Pro was fairly well matched in terms of it's accuracy. -I've downloaded Argyll & CMSGUI, as I've read it's strong support, yet have not tried it... Would the case of: "You get what you pay for" apply here? (#1 most accurate setup possible for spectrophotometers and building output profiles) ---> Epson 9900/Epson 11880 Barbieri Spectro LFP RT Series 3 $8,250.00 X-Rite Profilemaker 5 Packaging $7,999.00 (10 channel N-Color ICC Profile Generation!) My spectrophotometers: Gretag Macbeth SpectroScan (teal) i1Pro Publish Pulse ColorElite Xrite DTP41 My profile software: i1Profiler Pulse ColorElite ParrotColor (Praxis OEM) I'm trying get rid of old gear, yet keep the most accurate setup I have.... or upgrade to a new setup thanks, Andre

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review of camera profiling tool
by edmund ronald 08 Jul '13

08 Jul '13

Hi guys - in the latest post of my seldom updated blog I've reviewed a script by Iliah Borg which takes much of the pain out of creating camera profiles with Argyll. http://photofeedback.blogspot.fr/2013/07/iliah-borgs-makeinputicc-camera.ht… What might be useful discussing on-list is why the ICC model seems to have failed so badly in the raw converter arena - which seems to have fallen to Adobe. Edmund

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Re: i1Pro on a Windows 8 System
by Louis Dina 04 Jul '13

04 Jul '13

Thanks for the responses. I'll be trying this out Saturday afternoon. I just wanted to be prepared in case the Windows 8 PC requires a driver for my spectrophotometer so it communicates with the O / S. Your responses suggest that the i1Publish software ought to load all the necessary drivers to allow my i1Pro to talk to the software and O/S . I will find out. Thanks again. Lou >

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I1Pro on a Windows 8 system
by Louis Dina 04 Jul '13

04 Jul '13

I know this is a Mac forum, and I am a Mac user. I agreed to calibrate a friend's monitor using my i1Pro (rev B) and i1Publish. He is on a PC, running Windows 8. I assume I need a driver so the Windows 8 PC recognizes my i1Pro Spectro. All I saw on Xrite's website were drivers for Windows 2000, Vista and XP. Anyone know what I need to do to make this combo work? Thanks, Lou Dina

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