colorsync-users

Download

colorsync-users@lists.apple.com

December 2019

12 participants
22 discussions

RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 01 Dec '19

01 Dec '19

Thanks for the clarification. Many people I talk to, who are NOT in our "business", are notoriously "outraged" by the idea of a monitor price anything higher than what the computer cost them. $200 to $400 are considered "very good" for most people, just look at what's on sale at Staples. Anything above that range is considered preposterous. But I agree $25,000 for a 32" SONY BVM studio display ain't cheap (keep buying those lottery tickets...). I remember when I purchased my NEC 19u CRT monitors, many years ago, was it ever expensive! And paying several thousands of the first Eizo CG21 was beyond "ludicrous", for me. Dell, BenQ, ASUS, HP and the likes are considered relatively inexpensive but I can see they long entered the high-end market with HP being one of the first with its DreamColor (that I can remember). I don't think I'd be ready to give BenQ $1500 for a monitor, even with the hood... Again, after combing some of these monitors's User Guides, not a sliver of stated chromaticities anywhere? Seems everyone is satisfied with using a relative metric such as "X % of AdobeRGB" or some other "meaningful" gamut. Even PCWorld or DPreview type of articles, completely silent. Why not, at least, take advantage of the article to "educate" potential buyers about what makes a monitor gamut? I suspect the guys (or girls) who write these articles don't have a clue themselves... Question: doesn't SONY offers smaller (cheaper) BVM monitors? I seem to remember they did, maybe in a previous generation... And to what extent wouldn't a "good" high-end monitor like a NEC or an Eizo not be comparable? Side by side? I confess I never seen a SONY BVM "in person" (I don't go to video shows), but I would tend to think it is "overpriced", I mean, compared to a well-calibrated, well-characterized display? On the other hand, it is true that professional studios who are wall-to-wall Avid users, for example, like a local station I know, can't claim even the most basic color management -- such an archaic system (?), if you want my opinion, no ICC profiling of any kind, anywhere to be seen! --, creating the necessity for monitors that are Rec709 or some other standard "out-of-the-box". / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 1:23 PM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities A 32in Sony BVM studio display at $25,000 street is my idea of not cheap. So I'm being flippant. What I mean by "commodities" is a product widely available and suitable to a consumer's preferences are taste, rather than a product that satisfies a specific industrial process which cost must be tolerated by that process. Vague, I admit... _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

3 2

RE: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities
by graxx＠videotron.ca 01 Dec '19

01 Dec '19

Wire, Is this what you're looking for? https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAteG-cIdVA_xRmmA?e=EgcKHL Opinion about balance between AdobeRGB and Display P3 in consumer gear? Honestly, I don't know. I don't know at what rate are wide-gamut monitor prices coming down? I'm not sure many "consumers" care all that much or are the least bit knowledgeable about the gamut of their displays? As far as Apple's products are concerned, it may give their engineers "good conscience" to know they are adopting a "new" standard for display, P3, but I suspect most buyers are not all that preoccupied and certainly wouldn't be swayed to buy an Apple product because of their "adoption" of P3. I read elsewhere that Microsoft's Surface Hub has P3 as its "native" space? As an experiment, I tried to set my PA271W in its native gamut, if only to measure the primaries, but I quickly reverted to sRGB emulation because the colors were too vivid? You mentioned NTSC and I was surprised to see how far it reaches into the greens, not so much into the blues but almost on the nose of the spectrum locus for the red primary. Quite a feat. Could it be that televisions were made with these primaries all the way back in the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s? / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:49 AM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities Roger thanks (and Andrew) for looking that up and plotting. Would you replace previous NEC model plot with NTSC 1953 and post your graph over on the DisplayCal thread you recently commented... The graph clearly makes Vincent at DisplayCal's point about combined P3 / Adobe coverage possible with some new tech. And I think it will show that consumer displays (higher end) have finally arrived at the color spec laid down when ENIAC was the next big thing (figuratively haha) What are you opinions about the balance between Adobe RGB and Display P3 coverage in consumer gear? And challenges of wide-gamuts in general. I'm interested in your opinions as both what you think personally and your sense of industry trends. /wire On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 6:40 PM Roger Breton via colorsync-users < colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > Thank you so much, Mr Rodney. > Never knew why manufacturers could not publish this kind of data in > their technical brochure. > > A little graphing shows the improvements over the previous generation: > https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkD78CVR1NBqkoAglHEpfO10xKmr_g?e=npCj5r > > I can see they managed to get the red primary very close to the > Cine-P3 red primary which, according to the P3 specs, is "made up of a > 615nm monochromatic" source of light. > > The green primary gives the impression that it is cleverly "sitting" > between > AdobeRGB's green primariy and Cine-P3's green primary. > > The blue primary is also improved relative to the 271W. > > I can't assess the black level, though. Being an OLED panel, it's > supposed to have deeper black levels than an LCD panel. > > I suppose you have a 10-bit end to end workflow? > > May I ask the source of your numbers, Andrew? I1pro2? Multiprofiler? > SpoectraView II? I found Multiprofiler numbers are very close to > lab-grade instruments, at least in my experience. > > Thank you so much for your help, > > / Roger > www.graxx.ca > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> > Sent: Friday, November 29, 2019 9:13 PM > To: Roger Breton <graxx(a)videotron.ca> > Cc: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List < > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: NEC PA271Q "Native" chromaticities > > Here's what I see on mine, (full gamut) in SpectraView Info window: > > Red: 0.683, 0.311 > Green: 0.217, 0.721 > Blue: 0.153, 0.045 > Source: Calibration Sensor. > > Hope that's useful. > > Andrew Rodney > http://www.digitaldog.net/ > > > > > On Nov 29, 2019, at 7:04 PM, Roger Breton via colorsync-users > <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > > > Would anyone have the 1931 CIE xy chromaticities of this monitor, by > > any chance? In its "Full", "Native" mode? It's not in the User > > Manual, it's not on NEC web site, it's not on some user review by > > PCMag or some other? It's probably shown on Multiprofiler but I > > don't have the version made for this monitor. > > > > > > > > Curious to know how they can go about emulating both AdobeRGB and > > DCI-P3 at the same time. > > > > > > > > Any help is appreciated / Roger > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/wire%40lexipha > nicism.com > > This email sent to wire(a)lexiphanicism.com > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

3 2