February 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Intel source code release
by Markus Hitter 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Am 20.02.2006 um 02:07 schrieb Mike Smith: On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: Markus - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dipl. Ing. Markus Hitter http://www.jump-ing.de/ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… One can hope for almost everything, but I'm quite sure you won't see sources. Apple is back to the closed source model it had in the MacOS (1-9) days. Do you *know* this[...]? It is the situation everyone can observe right now. Dave Schroeder described nicely what you can get today: GPL'ed stuff only. Regarding the future, nobody knows, of course. Apple might re-open Darwin, but if you draw a line through Apple's open source efforts over the recent years, you'll need a lot of imagination to see this happen. What began with (almost) all open source, open communications to Apple's engineers and an enthusiastic community got more and more closed and has obviously taken the final step with shipment of the Intel iMac. Case done. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Graham J Lee 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201) Cheers, Graham. -- Graham Lee UNIX Systems Manager, Oxford Physics Practical Course http://users.ox.ac.uk/~wadh1342 _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 20/2/06 01:53, Matthew D. Pitts wrote: It seems that much of the APSL x86 stuff is in the PPC directory. I wonder what that implies. That source builds Darwin/[generic-]x86, not Darwin/Intel-Mac. The two are not the same (as discussed earlier in this thread and in at least one previous thread, IIRC). This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Matthew D. Pitts 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… It seems that much of the APSL x86 stuff is in the PPC directory. I wonder what that implies. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Mike Smith 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Feb 19, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Markus Hitter wrote: Do you *know* this, or are you just making wild accusations? If you do, who told you this, and why did they choose you to tell it to? = Mike _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… One can hope for almost everything, but I'm quite sure you won't see sources. Apple is back to the closed source model it had in the MacOS (1-9) days. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Dave Schroeder 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Feb 19, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Amanda Walker wrote: http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.4.4.x86/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.4.5.x86/ Compare that to: http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.4.4.ppc/ http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.4.5.ppc/ - Dave _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Have I just missed the announcement, or are people jumping to conclusions? There is almost always a delay between the release of an OS from Apple and the release of the corresponding Darwin sources. There have already been two corresponding source releases for Mac OS X (Intel). And the fact that there hasn't been an "announcement" is precisely the problem. Has anyone at Apple actually stated that buildable sources for Intel won't be made available, or are people just inferring this from the fact that they're not up for download yet? What happened to all the APSL projects on the x86 side? The only thing that has been released is GPL code that Richard Stallman complained about Apple not releasing. Why does the Darwin OS page now redirect to <http://developer.apple.com/opensource/>? If nothing is changing and this simply represents a "delay", then that should be pretty easy for Apple to confirm, shouldn't it? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Amanda Walker 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com I *had* been doing a log to work on macosx and enjoying it. Hey, Brad. Good to see you around here :-). But as for Intel sources... Amanda Walker _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On Feb 19, 2006, at 6:38 PM, Brad Parker wrote: And you know, after 15 years of staying away from the Mac (I was a *big time* macos developer "back in the day"), I was just about to go back to it in a serious way. but now, given this, I plan to spend my time working on 64 bit linux. Have I just missed the announcement, or are people jumping to conclusions? There is almost always a delay between the release of an OS from Apple and the release of the corresponding Darwin sources. This delay is largest when major OS releases are concerned (and given that Apple is still doing separate x86 and PPC releases (see 10.4.5), this counts as a major release). Has anyone at Apple actually stated that buildable sources for Intel won't be made available, or are people just inferring this from the fact that they're not up for download yet? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Mark F. Murphy 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Feb 19, 2006, at 6:09 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: And that is exactly the problem. On who's timetable? Would an announcement from Apple help. Most certainly. Not in the slightest. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development <mailto:markm@tyrell.com> Tyrell Software Corp <http://www.tyrell.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… At 6:13 PM -0600 2/19/06, Dave Schroeder wrote: I haven't seen anything but speculation so far in this thread without any official word from Apple. If nothing is changing with Darwin and they're simply not ready yet with the x86 tree, it should be pretty easy for Apple to confirm one way or the other, don't you think? I guess the expectation is that Apple execute *everything* on day 1... all dev announcements... etc. We've certainly seen Apple (in the past) not be ready with developer materials at launch time.... and it seems the larger the transition the harder it is for Apple to have this stuff ready on day 1. That's been the pattern ever since I can remember (and I've been developing Mac software since fall of 84). Is the lack of one justification for people concluding that Apple is ending their open source approach. Of course, speculation will always run rampant when there's a lack of announcement... but everyone should recognize it as just that.... speculation. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Dave Schroeder 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Feb 19, 2006, at 6:09 PM, Mark F. Murphy wrote: And that is exactly the problem. - Dave _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I haven't seen anything but speculation so far in this thread without any official word from Apple. If nothing is changing with Darwin and they're simply not ready yet with the x86 tree, it should be pretty easy for Apple to confirm one way or the other, don't you think? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Mark F. Murphy 20 Feb '06

20 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com I *had* been doing a log to work on macosx and enjoying it. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development <mailto:markm@tyrell.com> Tyrell Software Corp <http://www.tyrell.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… At 6:38 PM -0500 2/19/06, Brad Parker wrote: but now, given this, I plan to spend my time working on 64 bit linux. If you're basing your decision on this FUD thread, you might not be basing it on facts. I haven't seen anything but speculation so far in this thread without any official word from Apple. Of course, this is an all too familiar pattern in these types of threads... someone declares the sky is falling... Apple doesn't have anything formal to declare at the moment... and the list churns. Personally, I'd wait until the facts are known before rushing to any kind of judgement. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Intel source code release
by Brad Parker 19 Feb '06

19 Feb '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Organization: Heeltoe Consulting Markus Hitter wrote: > >Am 19.02.2006 um 18:36 schrieb Michael Bartosh: > >> (keeping the PPC iMac in production longer, for instance) > >??? The iMac G5 is still purchaseable brand new. > > >> I certainly hope we see a source release soon. > >One can hope for almost everything, but I'm quite sure you won't see >sources. Apple is back to the closed source model it had in the MacOS >(1-9) days. > >Every piece of source they publish will make the life of the Mac-OS-X- >on-generic-hardware hackers easier. Instead of providing these >sources, Apple implemented noticeable steps in the opposite >direction. And you know, after 15 years of staying away from the Mac (I was a *big time* macos developer "back in the day"), I was just about to go back to it in a serious way. I *had* been doing a log to work on macosx and enjoying it. but now, given this, I plan to spend my time working on 64 bit linux. life is too short to waste my time working on locked up operating systems. -brad _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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