May 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: StartupItems
by seebs＠plethora.net 22 May '06

22 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com In message <a06010200c097a2d8ab74(a)[192.168.0.222]>, Peter Bierman writes: >No, the IPC mechanisms that launchd tunnels are generally ones that >block on connection attempts. So clients can be completely unaware of >launchd, or whether the service is always running or launched on >demand. And servers only need to declare to launchd what their >existing IPC mechanism is via a plist. The obvious counterexamples are sockets and file access. Which are, by strange coincidence, 99% of UNIX services. >If your code is an existing IPC service, it's trivial to define that >service in a launchd.plist. What, like a webserver that needs name service to run? Apache fails if there's no name service. >If your code is an IPC service that's currently wrapped in a >StartupItem, consider moving to launchd so that your clients don't >need to also use a StartupItem to declare their dependencies. That's >the major advantage of launchd: clients just use the services they >need, there's no additional declaration of dependency required. That's not an advantage of launchd; that's an advantage of IPC mechanisms which block connection attempts. They would be just fine with daemon1 & daemon2 & daemon3 & What's the launchd way for my existing program which runs on 30 other UNIX platforms to request that it be launched only when a configuration file it needs is accessible? On other systems, I'd put it in startup after all the disk-mounting. What do I do in the launchd model? My program doesn't have any hooks for querying disk availability, *BECAUSE THAT IS THE JOB OF THE STARTUP SYSTEM*. Or at least, always has been. The complications of dependency checking have not been removed; they've been moved from specifications in the plist file (or rc file, or whatever) into extra code in my application. In some cases, the existing code can already delay gracefully. In other cases, not so much. What's the launchd way for my existing program, which scans for running network interfaces and binds to them, to ensure that it's run only after the network is up? I don't care about laptop issues, I'm writing a server app. I don't want to have to add special code to my app to scan repeatedly because ONE SYSTEM won't let me just schedule my item "after the network is up". -s _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: StartupItems
by Peter Bierman 22 May '06

22 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hmm. This leaves us with two of launchd's goals in conflict; one is that apps shouldn't have to contain extra code to handle the way they're launched, the other is that they should robustly handle services which aren't up yet but may be later. I guess, insofar as launchd is requiring me to rewrite code that's working fine elsewhere, and add apple-specific startup magic, it's not a feature. It may be that this inconvenience is worth it for the other benefits, but to deny that it is an extra workload and an extra inconvenience is implausible. -pmb _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… At 3:05 AM -0500 5/22/06, Peter Seebach wrote: Dave Zarzycki writes: We only expect what our customers (including system administrators) expect: Robust, easy to use and flexible software. I also have no doubt that our customers want to see daemons be more resilient to the real world, which will, in the end require the use of IPC. No, the IPC mechanisms that launchd tunnels are generally ones that block on connection attempts. So clients can be completely unaware of launchd, or whether the service is always running or launched on demand. And servers only need to declare to launchd what their existing IPC mechanism is via a plist. If your "code" is an existing StartupItem that works, you don't need to change it. If your code is an existing IPC service, it's trivial to define that service in a launchd.plist. If your code is an IPC service that's currently wrapped in a StartupItem, consider moving to launchd so that your clients don't need to also use a StartupItem to declare their dependencies. That's the major advantage of launchd: clients just use the services they need, there's no additional declaration of dependency required. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: OpenDirectory: creating a LocalCachedUser?
by Brian Bergstrand 22 May '06

22 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On May 20, 2006, at 7:54 PM, Michael Bartosh wrote: On May 17, 2006, at 6:15 PM, Brian Bergstrand wrote: Hmmm, ok, guess I need to rephrase this question: No kerb - it's a custom auth protocol. -mb Thanks for your help. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEce4AedHYW7bHtqIRAjN1AKCNEZ7SdEL7UnHDAu0wZgVd3BDa8gCdGCo6 L6SdRHixvnETZhFM1rhVOO8= =6PPr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I have a directory user with no corresponding local account. I want to allow the directory user to login to the GUI (or ssh) and create a local user representing the directory user with a local home directory. As part of the login, the directory user's network home should be mounted as a standard share so they can access their network files. So, I have directory authentication working and I can mount a network share easily, but it's the points in between that I don't know how to complete. There's really no documentation/examples on this procedure so I was hoping to get some help from the list. I'd create a local user and give the ApplePasswordServer Auth Authority if this directory we''re talking about is a Mac OS X Server Open Directory domain. Make sure their NFSHomeDirectory (and HomeDirectory) attributes reflect the network home.. An automount record (stored in either the Network (LDAP) or local NetInfo domain) is also required most of the time (and setting up network homes that don't require a mount record is unsupported and requires a lot of understanding of how the closed-source login process works.. I've done it though). Or you might just used a cached user, without including the the portable home directory. That's what I'm attempting to do now. It will be a cached user with NFSHomeDirectory pointing to a local directory. As part of the authentication, the plugin will also mount the users network home as a standard share. At this point, I don't care about mobility or cache sync support between the two. I just want to have the user login and be able to read/write files to their network home through drag & drop or Open/Save panels. There are a ton of options here. Anything that's not point and click requires a lot of work with both directories and the apps that interact with them. A local identity that's authenticated from a network directory system isn't necessarily rocket science .. you'll also need to modify /etc/authorization if you want loginwindow to do kerb correctly .. A lot depends on the Directory System in question. Is is Open Dir server or something else? Like AD or some kind of home-grown LDAP infrastructure. It's actually a custom directory protocol, specifically Netware's NDAP to access NDS. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: StartupItems
by seebs＠plethora.net 22 May '06

22 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com In message <BE80DB37-1F83-4A63-9B07-A1865455E006(a)apple.com>, Dave Zarzycki writ es: >We only expect what our customers (including system administrators) >expect: Robust, easy to use and flexible software. I also have no >doubt that our customers want to see daemons be more resilient to the >real world, which will, in the end require the use of IPC. Hmm. This leaves us with two of launchd's goals in conflict; one is that apps shouldn't have to contain extra code to handle the way they're launched, the other is that they should robustly handle services which aren't up yet but may be later. There are at least some apps where it's entirely unclear how to make the app cleanly check for the resources it needs, and where doing so requires substantial extra work on the program -- and not all of these are programs that we can conveniently modify to make them more convenient to launchd. I guess, insofar as launchd is requiring me to rewrite code that's working fine elsewhere, and add apple-specific startup magic, it's not a feature. It may be that this inconvenience is worth it for the other benefits, but to deny that it is an extra workload and an extra inconvenience is implausible. -s _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: StartupItems
by Dave Zarzycki 22 May '06

22 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: StartupItems
by Michael Bartosh 22 May '06

22 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 15, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Dave Zarzycki wrote: On May 15, 2006, at 2:45 AM, Finlay Dobbie wrote: Lastly, StartupItems are on their way out, and unless you're seeking compatibility with pre-Tiger (10.4) systems, you'd be better off using a launchd plist. Perfect example: I'm not dissing launchd, I'm just saying that I have encountered particular situations where it didn't really seem to be the best option. In particular, there was a situation where I had to start Tomcat and a java application which needed MySQL to be running beforehand. Now, you could argue that the inadequacies are in MySQL and this Java application, but I don't necessarily think that's fair. __ Michael Bartosh Essential Mac OS X System Administration O'Reilly _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 15/05/06, Kevin Van Vechten <kevin(a)opendarwin.org> wrote: launchd doesn't have daemon dependency support, last I checked. That's a feature. launchd: the daemon for phd-equivalent computer scientists, by phd- equivalent computer scientists. Apple's fascination with booting fast has cause headaches for system administrators in Tiger. It is unreasonable to expect every software package on earth to adopt some kind of IPC-based dependency mechanism. On May 16, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Finlay Dobbie wrote: Another example: Apple's own DirectoryService daemon has had ongoing trouble refreshing after the network becomes available, resulting in DirectoryService nodes that appear to be unavailable until the daemon is restarted. Sure, this is a bug .. but if sysadmins could just add in a dependency, then we could work around the bug until it is fixed. And that is what is most important here. It is telling that most of the more competent people in the Mac Sysadmin community have stated this over and over, while Apple still maintains that the lack of a dependancy checking mechanism is a feature. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: MacCentral Post
by Mark F. Murphy 21 May '06

21 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Apple Denies the Closing of Darwin x86 Kernel Until then, the best thing to do is not stir up the FUD pot. mark -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark F. Murphy, Director Software Development <mailto:markm@tyrell.com> Tyrell Software Corp <http://www.tyrell.com> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… At 5:43 PM +0200 5/21/06, Damien Petrilli wrote: http://lists.apple.com/archives/Fed-talk/2006/May/msg00105.html Actually, Ernie declared that the article is speculation and that Apple has made *NO* announcements. Yet, he did confirm that Apple releases source for all PPC and most Intel. It's obvious that Apple, at some point, will make some sort of announcement to clear up the questions out there now. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: MacCentral Post
by Damien Petrilli 21 May '06

21 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Apple Denies the Closing of Darwin x86 Kernel http://lists.apple.com/archives/Fed-talk/2006/May/msg00105.html Damien Petrilli _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

X11.root.tar.gz - 99% complete
by Dale Walsh 21 May '06

21 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Mta-interface: amavisd-new-2.3.3 (2005-08-22) + Maia Mailguard 1.1.0 at daleenterprise.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 /usr/lib/libXplugin.1.dylib /usr/X11R6/lib/libGLU.1.3.dylib /usr/X11R6/lib/libOSMesa.4.0.dylib /usr/lib/libXplugin.1.dylib /usr/X11R6/lib/libGLU.1.3.dylib /usr/X11R6/lib/libOSMesa.4.0.dylib Any suggestions to resolving the libXplugin file would be appreciated. - -- Dale -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEcCgAiD9DTPch4RQRAnWbAJsG9gy1tJ/cToG/yvbo1E8ijrBZwQCcDRbP IBTh76+LBwWGMwkwgUX65JI= =lVTo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I've spent the last couple of days generating the files however I have 3 files that I can't get in dual architecture. For the most part, everything that I've tried building with the files appears to function properly and I know that others would like a working X11.root For files that were single architecture the method was simple, I hacked Apple's libtool to perform the "-dynamic" function in two steps with a key press required to continue, I first processed the ppc file, when it prompted for a key press I made a copy of the file then ctrl-c'd out of it, then I processed the i386 file and when it prompted for the key press I copied the ppc file back to the directory, hit a key and it processed both files generating a single dual architecture dynamic file. No static library is available for this file so I'm not sure how to proceed with it. These two files I can't process because some linking information is missing so I'm trying to find out what other static libs are required to process them. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0

Re: OpenDirectory: creating a LocalCachedUser?
by Michael Bartosh 21 May '06

21 May '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 17, 2006, at 6:15 PM, Brian Bergstrand wrote: Hmmm, ok, guess I need to rephrase this question: -mb _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I have a directory user with no corresponding local account. I want to allow the directory user to login to the GUI (or ssh) and create a local user representing the directory user with a local home directory. As part of the login, the directory user's network home should be mounted as a standard share so they can access their network files. So, I have directory authentication working and I can mount a network share easily, but it's the points in between that I don't know how to complete. There's really no documentation/examples on this procedure so I was hoping to get some help from the list. I'd create a local user and give the ApplePasswordServer Auth Authority if this directory we''re talking about is a Mac OS X Server Open Directory domain. Make sure their NFSHomeDirectory (and HomeDirectory) attributes reflect the network home.. An automount record (stored in either the Network (LDAP) or local NetInfo domain) is also required most of the time (and setting up network homes that don't require a mount record is unsupported and requires a lot of understanding of how the closed-source login process works.. I've done it though). Or you might just used a cached user, without including the the portable home directory. There are a ton of options here. Anything that's not point and click requires a lot of work with both directories and the apps that interact with them. A local identity that's authenticated from a network directory system isn't necessarily rocket science .. you'll also need to modify /etc/authorization if you want loginwindow to do kerb correctly .. A lot depends on the Directory System in question. Is is Open Dir server or something else? Like AD or some kind of home-grown LDAP infrastructure. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

1 0