December 2007 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: rusage data for another process?
by Steve Thompson 10 Dec '07

10 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, Norm Green wrote: -s _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Is there a way to get the data returned by getrusage() for another process? I also need this functionality, as least insofar as the CPU usage fields are concerned. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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rusage data for another process?
by Norm Green 10 Dec '07

10 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Darwin-dev Digest, Vol 4, Issue 258
by ∞ 06 Dec '07

06 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=OhsKKq3EjsaeGNJJUGBBnr0FIfFDvTqEIE2gMO572Ys=; b=KYyHkLNINja3ces87XuJ0RWlp+t2FndGcdw66AEE0AtyDvEj6BE0Cp5cjh9bdOUlWPSDCehnIoS1ow9ZiUCFYQd5zvcOJe+oBRsl0GuKc1KCi41vAiLP85CRw+RYESR6DEuPm/u0pQPCiLzimoNrPwSWcln9ogpje64kpelGWxE= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=XeEFN/lMaJY55K0KYLe1w/demX0pGW6tPFxM5aOaQb0H3U1oYqF9Th37TXQ9xVC+2bcFV4s9nJQAbWH3mAM+ePAYbUloy4Tzf8e+d9fu8EZXsZ8ykcIwbbJ/m0TZH11qYc20slVFc1klMMFmMChMaLL2//IkNsDw5VKbrbaOXlQ= Okay, in that case how about offering a tool that keeps the data available that the developer wants to know? Such a tool might slow down program execution by 500%, but I would not mind, when looking for "where does the memory go", speed, is not an issue. Wasn't DTrace ported to the latest Darwin just for scenarios like this? - ∞ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Il giorno 06/dic/07, alle ore 21:05, darwin-dev- request(a)lists.apple.com ha scritto: This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Resident Memory, Private Memory, Shared Memory (top, Activity Monitor and vmmap)
by Markus Hanauska 06 Dec '07

06 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Sat, 2007-12-01, at 20:07, Michael Smith wrote: I'm sorry for that, you are of course right, it is not a BSD kernel :) Then what is it telling me? If the values are so useless for everything, then why displaying them in the first place? It doesn't need to be easy, only accurate. "Freezing" :) -- Best Regards, Markus Hanauska _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… You're making an error here in assuming that Darwin is a "BSD kernel" in the first place. The code is (by definition) a correct and complete description of what the system does. Yes, but a real documentation to the code is basically what C is to assembler. Assembler is also a perfect way to show someone how something works, but if you can read the C code... I think you get the point :P You asked "why don't resident (1) plus private (2) equal shared (3)", not "why don't private (2) plus shared (3) equal resident (1)". Yes, also my bad. However, I guess the reply would not have been much different if I had asked it correctly, would it? You're making a fundamental mistake in thinking that any of this accounting is being done for your (the application developers') sake. The VM keeps accounting information for its own purposes, and the statistics that are maintained and tracked bear for the most part directly on how the implementation works, and what it needs to know in order to provide the services it does. Okay, in that case how about offering a tool that keeps the data available that the developer wants to know? Such a tool might slow down program execution by 500%, but I would not mind, when looking for "where does the memory go", speed, is not an issue. That's a good question, but well outside the scope of this conversation as it strays into marketing territory and the somewhat conservative attitudes that many old-school Unix administrators have towards tools. Okay, that explains why these numbers are in top, but I had not expected them in Activity Monitor. All the other numbers in AM are perfectly accurate, meaningful and the way you'd interpret them on the first look is the right way, all but the memory stats. What you are asking for is what is generally referred to as the working set size for your application. Ahhh, now we are we I wanted to go. At least the thing now has a name: "working set size". It is a very difficult number to compute for a variety of reasons: - There are adaptive algorithms in play with both time- and space- related parameters that will cause your working set to expand or contract based on a number of factors not excluding CPU speed, other thread activity in the system, actual physical memory, disk speed, etc. How do speed parameters influence the memory needs? Has it to do with caching? The memory need of my tool should be constant at any time. I'm more interested in the "now" value, than in the "possible" value. IOW, I'd actually freeze the whole system to create such as snapshot if necessary. - There are other tasks in the system (server processes) that need to make timely forward progress in order for your application to do likewise, and their working sets for both your application and other applications' work that may gate yours (and thus other applications' working sets either partially or entire) need to be considered. Yes, but that can be ignored. Of course my app might indirectly cause memory to be used, e.g. for the Keychain Service or within the kernel, but this memory can be ignored. As a developer I must rely on the system to work as expected and this means the system will have whatever memory demands it must have. They are beyond my control and I must rely that the other developers who wrote the system made sure that they are sane and only as big as absolutely necessary. - The working set for an application can vary wildly based on the configuration of the system it's running on, the user-set preferences, the document or data being worked on, and so forth. Certainly, but on a specific system, at a specific time, I could freeze everything as said above and say "tell me now how big my working set is, on that system, with the current state of the app". - The number varies wildly with time; some applications' working set size relates fairly directly to what the application is doing at the time, or has periodic aspects that relate to a long-running task, but for some applications it is grossly impacted by external or non-direct factors that don't correlate to the application's activity at all. Because this number is very difficult to derive, and because deriving it at most tells you about limit conditions, it is generally better as a developer to focus your attention on the factors that affect the number and which are a consequence of your application's behaviour instead. Yes, but these factors are not limited to malloc. Most developers focus only on malloc. This is wrong for many reasons: E.g. Stack size. Stacks have a maximum size, but they grow towards that size as needed. Of course you can influence the grow rate as a developer. E.g. avoiding recursive implementations where alternatives are available (iterative ones), this will reduce stack usage. Avoid static memory on stack. Instead of filling your stack with a char [1024], do a malloc(1024) and free it again after the function exits. Avoiding deep function calls if there are alternatives (message passing, etc.). Keeping the stack small is within my control. And what is also within my control is against how many libraries I link. E.g. there might be a system library that offers a functionality I need. I can use it, meaning I link against this lib, the lib is loaded and maybe shared (if someone else uses it, too) or not shared (if I'm the only one using it). If this lib may be loaded just because I use it, it's again me influencing how memory is being used. Instead of loading the lib, I could implement the functionality myself. Now it won't be shared, but if the lib uses three times the memory than my implementation does, implementing itself would save memory again. So memory usage because of libraries is also within my control. Not to forget the code of my application. I can influence the code size, making the code more compact, which might make the code slower (e.g. loop unrolling is done for speed, but makes the code bigger), using less inlining, avoiding duplicate code (which will cause more function calls to happen and this again increases the stack size needed), and so on. The code itself is within my control. Tracing malloc is no problem, can be done easily. Tracing Stacks is harder, but vmmap will work here with the -resident option. But how about the library or code issue? The code itself can probably be monitored with vmmap, too. But how useful is vmmap for libraries? It would be only useful if it can really tell me, how much memory is lost for the libraries because of my app and who else except my process is needing this library (I guess linking against a dylib that is used by three other system services is probably not problematic, it's in memory anyway). This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: bootstrap_register: permission denied: what's next?
by Dave Zarzycki 05 Dec '07

05 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Dec 4, 2007, at 1:59 PM, Jack Repenning wrote: On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:33 AM, Dave Zarzycki wrote: launchctl log level debug # your launchd sudo launchctl log level debug # the system launchd sudo vi /etc/syslog.conf # change *.notice to *.* sudo killall -HUP syslogd # to restart syslogd Then you can browse /var/log/system.log. davez _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I suspect that you need to change the daemon to use bootstrap_check_in() instead of bootstrap_register(). Hmmm ... but I don't call bootstrap_register() myself. I call CFMessagePortCreateLocal(), which calls bootstrap_register() (give or take a few intervening frames). There doesn't seem to be any alternative to calling CFMessagePortCreateLocal(), nor any hint in the dox at that level as to why it might call *_register() vice *_check_in(). Odd. CFMessagePortCreateLocal() does a check_in() before register(). Something else weird is going on. How was the process created? Can you enable debugging in launchd and email me the log messages? One can enable it like so: This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: bootstrap_register: permission denied: what's next?
by Jack Repenning 04 Dec '07

04 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:33 AM, Dave Zarzycki wrote: -==- Jack Repenning jackrepenning(a)tigris.org Project Owner SCPlugin http://scplugin.tigris.org "Subversion for the rest of OS X" _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I suspect that you need to change the daemon to use bootstrap_check_in() instead of bootstrap_register(). Hmmm ... but I don't call bootstrap_register() myself. I call CFMessagePortCreateLocal(), which calls bootstrap_register() (give or take a few intervening frames). There doesn't seem to be any alternative to calling CFMessagePortCreateLocal(), nor any hint in the dox at that level as to why it might call *_register() vice *_check_in(). This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Missing function in PCSC winscard.h file on Leopard: SCardIsValidContext()
by Garth Cummings 03 Dec '07

03 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi Ludovic, On Dec 3, 2007, at 5:01 AM, Ludovic Rousseau wrote: Best regards, --gc ____________________________________________________________________ Garth Cummings gcummings(a)apple.com Sr. Software Engineer Apple Developer Technical Support <http://developer.apple.com/technicalsupport> _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I also opened a bug on radar (Problem ID: 5612527) but got no feedback. That bug was filed on Nov. 26. It's not too uncommon for bugs to take a couple of weeks to be screened, then it can take additional time for diagnosis, etc. It's also the holiday season and folks go on vacation, etc. You did the right thing by filing a bug report--the Apple lists are expressly not for reporting bugs. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: bootstrap_register: permission denied: what's next?
by Dave Zarzycki 03 Dec '07

03 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com davez On Nov 30, 2007, at 5:02 PM, Jack Repenning wrote: I've traced that to this code: -==- Jack Repenning jackrepenning(a)tigris.org Project Owner SCPlugin http://scplugin.tigris.org "Subversion for the rest of OS X" _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/zarzycki%40apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I suspect that you need to change the daemon to use bootstrap_check_in() instead of bootstrap_register(). I'm a bit unsure if this is the right list -- sorry if not -- but the archives are well populated with related stuff, so I'm encouraged, yet not quite this stuff, so I ask: My program (a Finder plug-in, actually) works fine in Tiger, but logs messages like this in Leopard: 11/30/07 2:45:55 PM SCPluginUIDaemon[14305] *** CFMessagePort: bootstrap_register(): failed 1100 (0x44c) 'Permission denied', port = 0x3d03, name = 'org.tigris.scfinderplugin.overlaymessage' See /usr/include/servers/bootstrap_defs.h for the error codes. 11/30/07 2:45:55 PM com.apple.launchd[145] (0x111000.SCPluginUIDaemo[14305]) Check-in of Mach service failed. PID 14305 is not privileged: org.tigris.scfinderplugin.overlaymessage gMessagePort = CFMessagePortCreateLocal (NULL, CFSTR(kSCPlugin_OverlayMessagePort), SCOverlayMessageCallback, &context, NULL); The program misbehaves in user-visible ways as well (sometimes fails to badge Finder icons), which I suspect are caused by this situation, since that's what this port is all about. It's a fairly decent message, as messages go: I think I grok a fair bit about what it's telling me (short form, "you can't do that"). Since it works in Tiger, it appears the security bar was raised in Leopard (a good thing in general, I suppose). But what's not clear to me is, what do I do about this? I'm legit! How do I prove that? Must I transform my program into a set-uid? Is there another communication technique I should be using in order to avoid the need to become All Powerful? The process is a sort of a daemon: that is, it's an autonomous, faceless process (not formally a daemon, no monkey shines with I/O streams or process groups or identity). It's launched by side effect when Finder first materializes its contextual menu; hence, it has the same identity as Finder, which is to say "whoever you are." We have an ordinary Finder contextual menu plug-in as well, which does that launching thing, and then chats with the daemon over this port. We've considered (for other reasons) rearranging the daemon into a LaunchDaemon/Agent ... has that time now come, is that the only way out of these woods? This email sent to zarzycki(a)apple.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Missing function in PCSC winscard.h file on Leopard: SCardIsValidContext()
by Ludovic Rousseau 03 Dec '07

03 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; bh=WaQW8dynBuV+xzhHvEHXK2JWTfStpYybyUaU53UHq8I=; b=bpjShrfG7CLgBRtkdbTyxl0p9czUQ7ZoxFu2eZ8mZESkT17FtUb4qPaqEQzMGybFALP34gwEdvmuDHeEHrzJMUs8/t/FXEDGRrM7CKo/b1ku0Od8iuATnn2nZx45/riJBaqRQlA+QgNfTlsCe397s5ykEeJC82qtPapRHXOcDP4= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=hbuqqHQzcsGeB6HNfT+9kjIn9NdIyX9U4udRLQbwL29PLkggRhNXXBVHQr2hbyuvf60ix89bdtLZIm8U/0azjWFyFGk9zvVeZtrfkssWmWa6JnVq89/bJ7kdBzBbEG5kKatDrVCF8omh2FoXgSOylgDkZX/Hucl92x/nzI/YPIQ= Hello, I posted my question [1] on the CDSA mailing list one week ago but got no answer. I also opened a bug on radar (Problem ID: 5612527) but got no feedback. Maybe darwin-dev is THE place to talk about bugs in Darwin? Is that right? The PCSC framework library provides the (new) SCardIsValidContext() function but this function is not declared in the PCSC framework header file /System/Library/Frameworks/PCSC.framework/Versions/A/Headers/winscard.h. The problem is that I have a ./configure script that test for the presence of SCardIsValidContext() and then use it if present. But the compilation fails since the function is not declared in any .h file. It is a C++ file. What do I have to do so that the problem is solved in 10.5.2 (ideally) by adding the prototype of SCardIsValidContext() in winscard.h Thanks [1] http://lists.apple.com/archives/apple-cdsa/2007/Nov/msg00073.html -- Dr. Ludovic Rousseau _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Darwin 9 vs IOPlatformPlugins
by Benjamin Herrenschmidt 01 Dec '07

01 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi ! It looks like the platform plugins are gone from AppleMacRISC4PE, moved to another project according to a readme in there. Any chance that other project makes its way into Darwin open source ? Cheers, Ben. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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