May 2007 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

x86_64 on MacBook with Intel Core Duo
by roman pindur 22 May '07

22 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=AJEMT1DlAvL5v3rDzJsan5OX9GEsn/ao1AaB6WOQtpqTfVqwoTPqliWrM/wP47+GlUZMASs9qs2CqN2VIcNCIKl57SMRQAlfjUgK271bJXRIs2EGprPzmo1MdiXiVKyCmuURL4SW11N/jQM2h9ix7e8EVzMWn7cdXz7pzedOlWQ= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=EkxfGMgTKyGHQsi7BEcS8Sn2p278i0jwCI7yof1NOSmALL9MB6DzlFRTYmtFOCMOqPz8OYjCuP7QPYxmAeCrbq6u40O6808Ct6DIYBQWYmk9or5qtSFxn1zVbGwNd4Ynmrpn+xJwlO+wnpikn2zIv6RbteGTRRlzxKDkRlTTbc4= _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Debugging at Boot Time?
by Duane Murphy 22 May '07

22 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks for the suggestions to use arp and firewire! Now I am wondering about symbols. I'll do some reading, but while I'm getting to that point, I thought I would ask. How does one get symbols setup for debugging at boot time? Normally, I use kextload -s to generate the symbol names. Obviously I can't do that at boot time. Thanks for your expertise, ...Duane ps This is probably in a document somewhere that I just need to find and re-read. --- At Mon, 21 May 2007 19:47:30 -0700, Duane Murphy wrote: >Howdy Darwin Folks, >I am working on a kext that loads and needs to work at boot time. What >kind of debugging facilities do I have at this point? > >I've setup gdb two machine debugging, but when it comes up the address >is 0.0.0.0 because the ethernet driver has not yet loaded. > >What alternatives do I have? > >Thanks, > > ...Duane > >ps >Yes, printf debugging does work, it's just not very efficient. ...Duane _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Debugging at Boot Time?
by Duane Murphy 22 May '07

22 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Howdy Darwin Folks, I am working on a kext that loads and needs to work at boot time. What kind of debugging facilities do I have at this point? I've setup gdb two machine debugging, but when it comes up the address is 0.0.0.0 because the ethernet driver has not yet loaded. What alternatives do I have? Thanks, ...Duane ps Yes, printf debugging does work, it's just not very efficient. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: [darwin-dev] kextd: ERROR can't find extension with id...
by Garth Cummings 21 May '07

21 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Fuse
by Andre-John Mas 21 May '07

21 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 21-May-07, at 10:21 , Amanda Walker wrote: Ad-hoc operations are not established or standard operating methods. I'm not sure I follow how this relates to FUSE, however. Adding to this: Andre _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On May 21, 2007, at 8:05 AM, Dan Shoop wrote: Production is about maintaining and running operations according to set service levels using established procedures and methods. That places the two rather at opposites. FUSE is just a well defined API for implementing a file system in a userspace process rather than in the kernel--it is to file systems what pseudoterminals (ptys) are to character devices. If anything, by defining a stable (and OS-independent) API, FUSE is less "ad hoc" than the methods used for implementing userspace file systems in userspace in the past (webdav, the automounter, and so on). Now, this certainly makes it easier to prototype a new file system implementation than writing a kernel VFS plugin is, but that's orthogonal to the quality of any given implementation, which is what matters for whether or not you'd use it in production. And since a defect in the file system module won't cause a kernel panic, one could argue that at any given quality level, a userspace implementation may well be *more* robust than a kernel implementation. Quality can only be defined in terms of a set of metrics. If these metrics are well defined, then whether the driver is kernel-space or user-space it is immaterial. The basic premise for a good driver is that is does the job properly without bring down the operating system. Moving a driver into user space avoids the potential of bringing down the OS, but still has the basic premise of 'should do the job properly without crashing'. In fact this basic premise applies to any piece of operational code, no matter where it is in a running system. A read only file system has the requirement that it reads the data on the disc in such a way that what the rest of the operating environment sees corresponds to what is on disk. A filesystem that allows writing to disk has the extra requirement of ensuring that the data on disk represents what was written and is consistent. Writing a read only filesystem is much easier to do, since you don't have to worry about long term data corruption. It is for reasons such as this, I believe, that the NTFS kernel driver is read only. While FUSE makes it easier to write a driver, the metrics for quality control stay the same (especially if your reputation matters). An extra benefit that I perceive is potentially larger user base and pool of expertise. What I mean by this last point is that since a FUSE driver does not require intricate knowledge of the low-levels of a specific operating system, so we can easily benefit from people developing filesystem on *BSD and Linux. Also because of the potentially larger user base you are going to find more people reporting issues, since in reality some issues only happen in the field. >From my understanding the main advantage of a kernel based driver is that of performance, but as we saw with the evolution from SCSI based CD writers to IDE based CD writers, the increasing performance of the hardware is such that these differences end up being very small, except for the most extreme of conditions. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Fuse
by Amanda Walker 21 May '07

21 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Ad-hoc operations are not established or standard operating methods. I'm not sure I follow how this relates to FUSE, however. Amanda Walker _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On May 21, 2007, at 8:05 AM, Dan Shoop wrote: Production is about maintaining and running operations according to set service levels using established procedures and methods. That places the two rather at opposites. FUSE is just a well defined API for implementing a file system in a userspace process rather than in the kernel--it is to file systems what pseudoterminals (ptys) are to character devices. If anything, by defining a stable (and OS-independent) API, FUSE is less "ad hoc" than the methods used for implementing userspace file systems in userspace in the past (webdav, the automounter, and so on). Now, this certainly makes it easier to prototype a new file system implementation than writing a kernel VFS plugin is, but that's orthogonal to the quality of any given implementation, which is what matters for whether or not you'd use it in production. And since a defect in the file system module won't cause a kernel panic, one could argue that at any given quality level, a userspace implementation may well be *more* robust than a kernel implementation. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Fuse
by Mo McRoberts 21 May '07

21 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 21-May-2007, at 13:05, Dan Shoop wrote: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… At 11:14 PM +0200 5/18/07, Uli Kusterer wrote: On 16.05.2007, at 19:44, Dan Shoop wrote: It's further clear that ad-hoc filesystems are anathema to production. O RLY? Elaborate :-) Production is about maintaining and running operations according to set service levels using established procedures and methods. Ad-hoc operations are not established or standard operating methods. There is a clear and somewhat blatantly obvious difference between a person performing actions on an ad-hoc basis and an operating system making provision for so-called “ad-hoc” extensions to a system. FUSE filesystems are only called “ad-hoc” in this scenario because they don't ship as part of the operating system, but that doesn't in any way preclude them from being built, tested and operated in a controlled fashion in a production environment according to set service levels using established procedures and methods! ALL user-provided pieces of software, including kernel extensions, are loaded in an “ad-hoc” fashion. It's a rather defining characteristic of modern desktop and server operating systems. If you want a system that doesn't provide this ability, you'll be wanting an embedded system. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Fuse
by Dan Shoop 21 May '07

21 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop(a)iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 "The wise man doesn't give the right answers, he poses the right questions." -- Claude Levi-Strauss ------------------------------------------------------------------------ iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… At 10:16 AM -0700 5/17/07, John Davidorff Pell wrote: This whole discussion has been precipitated by Dan's confusion about the term "user-space". It appears that Dan thinks that "user-space" is somehow related to a user: i.e. the person sitting in front of the computer. This is not true. Arguably, "kernel-space" is more related to the user since all interactions with the user happen via hardware which is all managed by the kernel. Dan: "user-space" means not-in-kernel. That's all it means. Yes, I *do* know and suggest in the future you stop making presumptions about what you think others are thinking or mean. I suffer none of the confusions you speak of, and it is in fact you who are confused about what I think. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Fuse
by Dan Shoop 21 May '07

21 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Ad-hoc operations are not established or standard operating methods. That places the two rather at opposites. -- -dhan ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Shoop AIM: iWiring Systems & Networks Architect http://www.ustsvs.com/ shoop(a)iwiring.net http://www.iwiring.net/ 1-714-363-1174 "The wise man doesn't give the right answers, he poses the right questions." -- Claude Levi-Strauss ------------------------------------------------------------------------ iWiring provides systems and networks support for Mac OS X, unix, and Open Source application technologies at affordable rates. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… At 11:14 PM +0200 5/18/07, Uli Kusterer wrote: On 16.05.2007, at 19:44, Dan Shoop wrote: It's further clear that ad-hoc filesystems are anathema to production. O RLY? Elaborate :-) Production is about maintaining and running operations according to set service levels using established procedures and methods. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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[darwin-dev] kextd: ERROR can't find extension with id...
by Alexander von Below 19 May '07

19 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hello List, quite often, I get the message kextd: ERROR can't find extension with id when trying to load my extension with kextload -m after a kextload -ls Thanks Alex _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… The extension loads OK if I do not pre-load it and generate symbols. Any idea what might be wrong? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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