October 2007 - Darwin-kernel

Re: Leopard Sources?
by Alexander von Below 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Sorry, that was the release I was referring to. Alex Am 27.10.2007 um 20:07 schrieb Andreas Fink: On 27.10.2007, at 16:43, Alexander von Below wrote: Am 27.10.2007 um 16:35 schrieb Andreas Fink: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… Darwin 8 sources were released together with OS X 10.4 on April 29th, 2005, this is what I recall. I am not Apple, but I would - expect - the Darwin 9 sources to be released soon. Anyone have an idea when Leopard kernel sources will be available? No, but usually they arrive shortly after the release. 10.4.9 had been released 13 days after releasing some different binary named 10.4.9 10.4.10 has been released 20. June 2007. This is over 4 months by now and no kernel sources. so what is "usually"? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Leopard Sources?
by Michael Tuexen 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Hi Alexander, we need the header files of the kernel to build our NKE, which implements SCTP (an innovative transport protocol), and is provided as open source. However, we can not do *anything* without the headers, not even start porting it to Leopard, if changes are necessary. I'll file a DTS an see if we can get the kernel header files... Best regards Michael On Oct 27, 2007, at 4:43 PM, Alexander von Below wrote: Am 27.10.2007 um 16:35 schrieb Andreas Fink: No, but usually they arrive shortly after the release. My suggestion would be to file a DTS incident in this case. Alex This email sent to michael.tuexen(a)lurchi.franken.de _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… Anyone have an idea when Leopard kernel sources will be available? My development is 99% blocked because of this. Sources are a MUST in this case. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/michael.tuexen% 40lurchi.franken.de This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Leopard Sources?
by Andreas Fink 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com On 27.10.2007, at 16:43, Alexander von Below wrote: Am 27.10.2007 um 16:35 schrieb Andreas Fink: so what is "usually"? _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… Anyone have an idea when Leopard kernel sources will be available? No, but usually they arrive shortly after the release. 10.4.9 had been released 13 days after releasing some different binary named 10.4.9 10.4.10 has been released 20. June 2007. This is over 4 months by now and no kernel sources. My development is 99% blocked because of this. Sources are a MUST in this case. My suggestion would be to file a DTS incident in this case. Tried that in the past with no luck. Its not a technical issue. its a political. Some Apple politicians don't understand what Open Source means or don't want to understand. How the hell should the open source community contribute to source if its not published and if it is, its not the same as in shipped products? Of course all this wouldn't be an issue if Apple would have finally created the corresponding API (isnt it Vincent?) which we have been asking for since 2005 over and over again so we wouldn't have to be kernel dependent. I'm getting really upset about this. I have to tell my customers, forget Leopard where as the whole world made them hot on having it, and to kick out their shiny XServes and put some lousy Sun's into their racks just because Apple can't adopt SCTP, and gives open source SCTP contributors (who by the way contribute the same source to the FreeBSD kernel too and some are even authors of the RFC's so not just some kiddies) no choice than to wait until someone at Apple finds the time to create the API promised since 2005 or some decent fellow has time to release some sources which might look close enough like the ones used to produce the kernels on the shipping DVD's. As a side note SCTP protocols with its multi homing feature would be REALLY good to have on the iPhone. So you can keep connections up while being on GPRS/EDGE or on WLAN. One of the great features of SCTP compared to TCP and UDP which both simply would kill the session. So we're not trying to be nasty, wer'e trying to make Apple's product much much better. I haven't dared to ask the source of the iPhone kernel. The first Leopard which was released free. Of course that one will be even more closed source. Great new Apple! *1984 - †2007 for me. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Leopard Sources?
by Alexander von Below 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Am 27.10.2007 um 16:35 schrieb Andreas Fink: No, but usually they arrive shortly after the release. My suggestion would be to file a DTS incident in this case. Alex _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… Anyone have an idea when Leopard kernel sources will be available? My development is 99% blocked because of this. Sources are a MUST in this case. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Leopard Sources?
by Andreas Fink 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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AW: Changing the screencapture format
by Hector Martinez 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.de; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=KR/AGWRkCbaGvRPDiOadvcyElCYLVKvGbUhRfJea/3UBYlcXWDN2JhA/5nVB5Xy562KFw1DCEQVx2+mAx/mTT+I1IBKRG9LXK3//6H6YwTEDTk2GGVTrJmYm70qWvHwTcK1FPqbMcGUS9VtR9bS3CwWwkBEVamVg+7n0GjRbX1A=; _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Changing the screencapture format
by Justin C. Walker 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com On Oct 26, 2007, at 19:06 , Mike wrote: screencapture -S -x -C -t jpg /tmp/test1.jpg Justin PS: Why 'darwin-kernel'? -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large Institute for the Enhancement of the Director's Income -------- Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. -------- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… The man page for screencapture says that the default file format is png but that it can be changed with the -t option. However, when I try to change it to, say, .jpg, it doesn't work. Here is my code from the command-line: Any ideas how to change the file format? Just tried this with your command as above. I noticed the file 'test1.jpg' wasn't there, but a new file, 'jpg' was. Looks like the "-t" needs its argument following with no spaces. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Changing the screencapture format
by Mike 27 Oct '07

27 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) screencapture -S -x -C -t jpg /tmp/test1.jpg Any ideas how to change the file format? Thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… The man page for screencapture says that the default file format is png but that it can be changed with the -t option. However, when I try to change it to, say, .jpg, it doesn't work. Here is my code from the command-line: This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Socket protocol which does not use Unsupported.kext
by Andreas Fink 19 Oct '07

19 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Gi, On 19.10.2007, at 20:26, Gi youl Kim wrote: Hi Micheal: The drawbacks you posted are the reason why I want to code without unsupported APIs. If you implemented SCTP with socket support, let me know the functions to register sockets which are supported by Apple. By the way, what is kernel sources and headers and the headers provided by Apple? I have xnu-792.18.15 sources and MacOSX10.*.sdk. Do you mean that I should use MacOSX10.*.sdk? FYI My protocol is 'LPX' which has protocol type 0x88ad. LPX is used for our product which is kind of storage over the ethernet. Here is plist which I use <dict> <key>com.apple.kpi.bsd</key> <string>8.0.0</string> <key>com.apple.kpi.iokit</key> <string>8.0.0</string> <key>com.apple.kpi.libkern</key> <string>8.0.0</string> <key>com.apple.kpi.mach</key> <string>8.0.0</string> <key>com.apple.kpi.unsupported</key> <string>8.0.0</string> </dict> Hi Aingoppa, You need to use <dict> <key>com.apple.kernel</key> <string>8.10.1</string> </dict> in your Info.plist file and also use some headers from the kernel sources instead of the headers provided by Apple. Best regards Michael On Oct 19, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Gi youl Kim wrote: I want to create a protocol which support socket interface. I could create one using net_add_proto() and net_del_proto(). But those functions are included by Unsupported.kext. And worse, some functions like sbfree() was not even exported. So I had to use codes in open xnu source to the protocol work. Aingoppa. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/michael.tuexen% 40lurchi.franken.de This email sent to michael.tuexen(a)lurchi.franken.de _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… I have to back up Michael here. Its painful but THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE than to be kernel dependent and SOURCE dependent. So don't even think of Leopard. Even you will get your hands on Leopard within a week, you wont see the source of it for like 3-4 months (my guess based on experience with 10.4.x....). Even it probably has an unchanged API in this way, you can't make it work without the source and we probably wont get it for a while. No engineer could explain me so far why kernel is open source but the one shipped on DVD is not built out of this open source but has some modifications which produce delays on the production of the open source version. (in other words MacOS X kernel is closed source, what we see as Darwin kernel is just a clone). So one day a KEXT might not even work that way because the binary could be different from the actual source. The problem is that until Apple makes this a supported API (I'm asking this since WWDC 2005 from Apple and it has been promised mabye for 10.4.6, probably for 10.4.8 but pretty sure for 10.5) there is currently still no other way than the unuspported one to be kernel dependent. I'm suffering from this on a daily basis as I have commercial software which requires Michael's SCTP and I have no other choice as SCTP is the "must-do"-standard. Next week I will get Leopard but I wont be able to use it until the sources are released so the KEXT can be recompiled for it. I feel very sad that everyone will pray the new features of Leopard and I can't use it. Maybe Apple should drop trying to rip of customer by selling them ringtones of songs they already bought and get back to its roots of good engineering and do their work right. I would strongly recommend filing a bugreport/ feature request for this API and talk to your DTS guys. Its a looooong outstanding small API which would make our life sooooooo much easier. Until this happens, use Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris or maybe even Windows. They all can do this.. just Apple can't *big-sight* On 10/19/07, Michael Tuexen <Michael.Tuexen(a)lurchi.franken.de> wrote: what protocol do you want to implement? We have implemented SCTP, a transport protocol. Basically, it is the same code as in the FreeBSD 7.0 kernel, but with some changes for Mac OS X (locking, timers). This all and the usage of net_add_proto() and net_del_proto() is an unsupported API and has several drawbacks: 1. Apple can change it any time or make it impossible to implement transport protocols via NKEs. Fortunately, we could use the API from 10.3.9 to 10.4.10. Not sure about 10.5. 2. You can build a NKE only for one specific Mac OS X version. Although, you can build a universal binary for the NKE, it does only load on Intel or PPC, because the kernel has different versions. 3. You really depend on Apple, providing the source for the kernel to get the header files you need (you do not need the source files). This means you can not delevop/test a Leopard version until Apple releases the sources for a Leopard kernel. Not sure when this will happen. Currently not even the 10.4.10 sources are available. Can you create a socket protocol which does not use Unsupported.kext? If you can't, how can you create a protocol? _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/afink% 40list.fink.org This email sent to afink(a)list.fink.org This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Socket protocol which does not use Unsupported.kext
by Michael Tuexen 19 Oct '07

19 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Hi Aingoppa, see my comments in-line. Best regards Michael On Oct 19, 2007, at 10:26 PM, Gi youl Kim wrote: Hi Micheal: The drawbacks you posted are the reason why I want to code without unsupported APIs. If you implemented SCTP with socket support, let me know the functions to register sockets which are supported by Apple. My point is: There is no supported API which you can use to implement a transport protocol. The application can just use sockets for SCTP as if the SCTP implementation came from Apple just like TCP. By the way, what is kernel sources and headers and the headers provided by Apple? I have xnu-792.18.15 sources and MacOSX10.*.sdk. Do you mean that I should use MacOSX10.*.sdk? We use the /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk and some header files from the latest xnu sources. If you want, I can send you the XCode project. Then you can see how we use it... FYI My protocol is 'LPX' which has protocol type 0x88ad. LPX is used for our product which is kind of storage over the ethernet. So you want to implement a protocol on top of ethernet... Not sure about the APIs at that level... Here is plist which I use <dict> <key>com.apple.kpi.bsd</key> <string>8.0.0</string> <key>com.apple.kpi.iokit</key> <string>8.0.0</string> <key>com.apple.kpi.libkern</key> <string>8.0.0</string> <key>com.apple.kpi.mach</key> <string>8.0.0</string> <key>com.apple.kpi.unsupported</key> <string>8.0.0</string> </dict> Hi Aingoppa, You need to use <dict> <key>com.apple.kernel</key> <string>8.10.1</string> </dict> in your Info.plist file and also use some headers from the kernel sources instead of the headers provided by Apple. Best regards Michael On Oct 19, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Gi youl Kim wrote: I want to create a protocol which support socket interface. I could create one using net_add_proto() and net_del_proto(). But those functions are included by Unsupported.kext. And worse, some functions like sbfree() was not even exported. So I had to use codes in open xnu source to the protocol work. Aingoppa. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/michael.tuexen% 40lurchi.franken.de This email sent to michael.tuexen(a)lurchi.franken.de _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… On 10/19/07, Michael Tuexen <Michael.Tuexen(a)lurchi.franken.de> wrote: what protocol do you want to implement? We have implemented SCTP, a transport protocol. Basically, it is the same code as in the FreeBSD 7.0 kernel, but with some changes for Mac OS X (locking, timers). This all and the usage of net_add_proto() and net_del_proto() is an unsupported API and has several drawbacks: 1. Apple can change it any time or make it impossible to implement transport protocols via NKEs. Fortunately, we could use the API from 10.3.9 to 10.4.10. Not sure about 10.5. 2. You can build a NKE only for one specific Mac OS X version. Although, you can build a universal binary for the NKE, it does only load on Intel or PPC, because the kernel has different versions. 3. You really depend on Apple, providing the source for the kernel to get the header files you need (you do not need the source files). This means you can not delevop/test a Leopard version until Apple releases the sources for a Leopard kernel. Not sure when this will happen. Currently not even the 10.4.10 sources are available. Can you create a socket protocol which does not use Unsupported.kext? If you can't, how can you create a protocol? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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