January 2009 - Darwin-kernel

Re: Using XCODE
by Shawn Erickson 31 Jan '09

31 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ytNpVaX4r6EBZqSYHzJgUfCf+p27mZjM1lxLs0JT9R0=; b=Fq1IuqBzj04kJVga5a5qrGfPVI20viMLAiz8iuD4IA9b8rZgAztlKv6ix9LyoaZqzb /IQ4Mhp9ImvjnEMFx7oVT0k83vNnsX1xLNZ8Ft2wvHu7BWFGeOC7dcbVPF6+liIKIMEQ yE4r7g2J1dV/af4oXVdCv9rCGs3HL7FGMOPCA= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=JZebg3a86zqVpyr/4qsl1gbLa+/DUgJataI9Ldcvb6fdHrGOcRNrLUFJKSndOYDcld KsIh0pse8LmK4mpJC6k8DxSGQFz/U2wRzgmwZp0vfRShWuLE16yTTAcg2vnjzP6YNC1T uNbC7ruQ/VmPKaNjcEeUT9P9I+rKdz7VUzrO8= On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Eddy Quicksall <quicksall_temp(a)bellsouth.net> wrote: > I'm trying to learn how to use X-CODE on my MacBookPro. I am reading the > help files. I'm on the page called ADC Home > Reference Library > Guides > > Tools > Xcode Quick Tour Guide > Creating a Project > > Under the heading "Using Interface Builder" item 2a says "In the > MainMenu.nib window, click Classes". > > My problem is that the MinMenu.nib does not have anything called "Classes". > What it has is "Files Owner", "First Responder", "Application", "MainMenu" > and "Window". > > Does anyone know how to proceed with this bit of "help"? Likely better to ask Xcode related questions on the Xcode users list and not this list. Anyway it sounds like you are looking at the documentation for Interface Builder v2.0 but are using Interface Builder v3.0. Look at... http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/IB_UserG… -Shawn _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Using XCODE
by Eddy Quicksall 31 Jan '09

31 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: AcmDIKLI6fYKsS+7QAm++E5YK8leNwAnqlUg I'm trying to learn how to use X-CODE on my MacBookPro. I am reading the help files. I'm on the page called ADC Home > Reference Library > Guides > Tools > Xcode Quick Tour Guide > Creating a Project Under the heading "Using Interface Builder" item 2a says "In the MainMenu.nib window, click Classes". My problem is that the MinMenu.nib does not have anything called "Classes". What it has is "Files Owner", "First Responder", "Application", "MainMenu" and "Window". Does anyone know how to proceed with this bit of "help"? Eddy _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by mm w 30 Jan '09

30 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=h/9rf/u2dB7AG2wQhguufgl0KJDeDsfYS5uyuSyVaW4=; b=A6xfycBqlzI0b/ftLrVubpSxlpsHaSrk4lyScZ5bfEKEufOYwflgbYob/ZpUpdGgc8 7Bs7FXoyl6ckP69c/uMvrxKlBHgiJTJJhVSD3Wel2iHZeeo2N3TqgzuWYJEqtRoBDfy0 bur+NZL+X8eMqxCpabTCM0qwerSDjbsXDaSaE= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=N0TjT3xtUvbwy54btZ8irAJlXhnABdWjPhPWq0AEAE6fu9qwkJLUwrzhvw6vyT7+Aa SKCUMj7AHYDpp8Kk6MCXFAcpYcP5hislLx7o/uNQJyNnGhX1dURWmWou7ntEH0pEX3kF Rrh3V+3RonCg9cqGLUgWuYxUpdwIwmoCgB1aQ= Thanks Terry for your answer, on the iPhone you should think to do a contest personally I give up after 50 words :) anyway you gave two solutions for the kernel concern: 1- rebuilding with setting up hard_limit 2- write a tool with lib kvm as I found the second point a good TP (Travaux Pratiques) to do I started to play in this way: Materials & Methods leopard-x86, boot-args="kmem=1", Libkvm-25(10.4.11) it's working but not in an easy way indeed hard_maxproc is defined as __private_extern__ so hidden kvm_t *kd; struct nlist nl[] = { { "_maxproc" }, { "" } }; int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int _maxproc; unsigned long offset; if (NULL == (kd = kvm_open("/mach_kernel", NULL, NULL, O_RDWR, "kvm_open"))) { return 1; } if (-1 == kvm_nlist(kd, nl)) { warn("kvm_nlist"); return 1; } if ((offset = nl[0].n_value)) { if (kvm_read(kd, offset, &_maxproc, sizeof _maxproc) < 0) { warn("kvm_read"); return 1; } printf("%i \n" , _maxproc); } return 0; } , and anyway this test will be apply if (count > hard_maxproc) count = hard_maxproc; so the only way I found it's to calculate the syscall addr and overwrite it if (kvm_write(kd, addr + offset, the result is really ugly and hackish, so the cleanest way is to rebuild the kernel with an hard_maxproc value, maybe I missed a point here conclusion, even if mail clients are a bit stupid with IMAP protocol, I think there is still something to do with the server conf maybe in tracking dead processes and closing them. Cheers! On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Terry Lambert <tlambert(a)apple.com> wrote: > On Jan 30, 2009, at 5:29 AM, Lassi A. Tuura wrote: >>> >>> If Mail does this then you *definitely* should file a bug. He stated >>> here, and in his numerous posts on the other mailing lists, that he had only >>> a few Mac OS X client machines, so I had assumed he was thinking about some >>> other client. >> >> Mail.app definitely spawns large numbers of TCP connections to the IMAP >> server (dovecot 1.x) for me. On "Go online" I see one IMAP connection per >> folder (*). Longer term Mail.app appears to keep 5-15 IMAP connections open >> at any one time. My use appears to generate, from daily stats, on average >> one connection every 5-10 seconds or so. > > > Again, not the list... > > Speaking purely as someone who has implemented mail clients before, I can > easily see how certain types of object oriented encapsulation of transport > sessions within mailbox sessions as instances rather than references could > result in a mailbox:transport cardinality of 1:1 instead of N:1, as a design > simplification of the object model used within the mail client. > > Speaking purely as a former contributor to the Cyrus IMAP server project and > former technical lead on several commercial IMAP server products, I think > you should file a bug. > > Can we be done now? > > -- Terry > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/openspecies%40gmail.com > > This email sent to openspecies(a)gmail.com > -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Terry Lambert 30 Jan '09

30 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Again, not the list... Can we be done now? -- Terry _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… On Jan 30, 2009, at 5:29 AM, Lassi A. Tuura wrote: If Mail does this then you *definitely* should file a bug. He stated here, and in his numerous posts on the other mailing lists, that he had only a few Mac OS X client machines, so I had assumed he was thinking about some other client. Mail.app definitely spawns large numbers of TCP connections to the IMAP server (dovecot 1.x) for me. On "Go online" I see one IMAP connection per folder (*). Longer term Mail.app appears to keep 5-15 IMAP connections open at any one time. My use appears to generate, from daily stats, on average one connection every 5-10 seconds or so. Speaking purely as someone who has implemented mail clients before, I can easily see how certain types of object oriented encapsulation of transport sessions within mailbox sessions as instances rather than references could result in a mailbox:transport cardinality of 1:1 instead of N:1, as a design simplification of the object model used within the mail client. Speaking purely as a former contributor to the Cyrus IMAP server project and former technical lead on several commercial IMAP server products, I think you should file a bug. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Problems building an Intel 10.5.6 kernel
by mm w 30 Jan '09

30 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WSrbFLLaYkCsG1f7k1uY2gJeKIdnmUi8Wg4mdtx+hEM=; b=IUO92dIudI3kO96Z2AyJyjAfGVp5ZDqULjlnhjTpSfZgY0xduUzy1+PnvYMXksiUmk aoiknbQLLynkVhlW6ibLBkpI3CiGxK3THwdDBHpPp/IwXjqKdaLAhVYASl9D1PbtavLu yYlyb/7pznScul6SnGvnbeGZ/f8m9WJpkld4o= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Ao2Bdh2FT4zDjGm6z1e8wcfFZChLvHGoLFUu5UkrXoXYMkVlfiBDg89fGa/xLSVOdZ xpnANczjOCyyYRTHhLKcl9aRaUkPu0HnhP2QCVUypy2y7k3/qtgxXm0BoeOn8AJf/P21 l8Xgu6Nmi9w+qC6dujvDQFaTHoznjIQNF7R5M= take this train, http://darwinbuild.macosforge.org/ On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 8:26 AM, C. Clark Piepho <clark(a)mm.com> wrote: > The is the first time I have tried to build an Darwin kernel. My previous > experience is in FreeBSD kernels. > > I am trying to build an Intel version of the 10.5.6 kernel following > instructions > from chapter 19 of the "Kernel Programming Guide" dated 11/07/2006, the > section > titled "Building Your First Kernel". > > The platform I am doing the build on is a Mac OS X Server, Version 10.5.6. I > have > installed Xcode, Version 3.1.2 on it adding support for Mac OS X 10.3.9 to > get the > GCC 3.3 compilier. > > I downloaded source code from > http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.6/ > xnu-1228.9.59 > bootstrap_cmds-60.1 > Libstreams-25 > kext_tools-117.4 > IOKitUser-388.50 > cctools-667.3 > > The documentation indicates I am supposed to use 'gcc_select' command to > switch > compiliers. The 'gcc_select' command does not exist on in my copy of > Developer > Tools. There are copies of 'gcc_select at > http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/projects/other > > Building 'bootstrap_cmds' fails with a File Not Found error. The Makefile > contains the line: > > include $(MAKEFILEPATH)/CoreOS/ReleaseControl/BSDCommon.make > > which does not exist on my system. The contents of my > ../CoreOS/ReleaseControl > is: > ./BSD.make > ./Common.make > ./GNUSource.make > ./README > ./texi2html > ./mtree > ./mtree/BSD.include.dist > ./mtree/BSD.local.dist > ./mtree/BSD.release.dist > ./mtree/BSD.root.dist > ./mtree/BSD.usr.dist > ./mtree/BSD.var.dist > ./mtree/BSD.x11.dist > ./mtree/Darwin.root.dist > ./mtree/Darwin.usr.dist > ./mtree/Darwin.var.dist > ./mtree/README > > > My questions are: > > 1) Am I using the wrong documentation for the build instructions? If so, > where can I find documention for 10.5.6 builds. > > 2) Is the gcc 3.3 still required to build a 10.5.6 Intel kernel? If so, > should > I grab gcc_select-58 from http://www.opensource.apple.com. > > 3) Assuming the build instructions are correct, where can I find a copy > of BSDCommon.make? > > - Clark Piepho > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/openspecies%40gmail.com > > This email sent to openspecies(a)gmail.com > -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Amanda Walker 30 Jan '09

30 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Burning a process per connection is a fairly standard thing to do. For example, apache. I was unaware that Mail was being a bad IMAP client. I suppose I should file a bug. --Amanda _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… On Jan 30, 2009, at 1:55 AM, Steve Checkoway wrote: ... which is why non-forking servers like lighttpd routinely perform much, much better, especially for heavy loads, than apache. Mail's not a very good IMAP client in all sorts of ways :-). I'd file bugs. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Problems building an Intel 10.5.6 kernel
by C. Clark Piepho 30 Jan '09

30 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com I downloaded source code from http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.5.6/ xnu-1228.9.59 bootstrap_cmds-60.1 Libstreams-25 kext_tools-117.4 IOKitUser-388.50 cctools-667.3 include $(MAKEFILEPATH)/CoreOS/ReleaseControl/BSDCommon.make My questions are: 3) Assuming the build instructions are correct, where can I find a copy of BSDCommon.make? - Clark Piepho _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… The is the first time I have tried to build an Darwin kernel. My previous experience is in FreeBSD kernels. I am trying to build an Intel version of the 10.5.6 kernel following instructions from chapter 19 of the "Kernel Programming Guide" dated 11/07/2006, the section titled "Building Your First Kernel". The platform I am doing the build on is a Mac OS X Server, Version 10.5.6. I have installed Xcode, Version 3.1.2 on it adding support for Mac OS X 10.3.9 to get the GCC 3.3 compilier. The documentation indicates I am supposed to use 'gcc_select' command to switch compiliers. The 'gcc_select' command does not exist on in my copy of Developer Tools. There are copies of 'gcc_select at http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/projects/other Building 'bootstrap_cmds' fails with a File Not Found error. The Makefile contains the line: which does not exist on my system. The contents of my ../CoreOS/ ReleaseControl is: ./BSD.make ./Common.make ./GNUSource.make ./README ./texi2html ./mtree ./mtree/BSD.include.dist ./mtree/BSD.local.dist ./mtree/BSD.release.dist ./mtree/BSD.root.dist ./mtree/BSD.usr.dist ./mtree/BSD.var.dist ./mtree/BSD.x11.dist ./mtree/Darwin.root.dist ./mtree/Darwin.usr.dist ./mtree/Darwin.var.dist ./mtree/README 1) Am I using the wrong documentation for the build instructions? If so, where can I find documention for 10.5.6 builds. 2) Is the gcc 3.3 still required to build a 10.5.6 Intel kernel? If so, should I grab gcc_select-58 from http://www.opensource.apple.com. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Lassi A. Tuura 30 Jan '09

30 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Hi, Lassi _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… If Mail does this then you *definitely* should file a bug. He stated here, and in his numerous posts on the other mailing lists, that he had only a few Mac OS X client machines, so I had assumed he was thinking about some other client. Mail.app definitely spawns large numbers of TCP connections to the IMAP server (dovecot 1.x) for me. On "Go online" I see one IMAP connection per folder (*). Longer term Mail.app appears to keep 5-15 IMAP connections open at any one time. My use appears to generate, from daily stats, on average one connection every 5-10 seconds or so. (*) The IMAP server logs are filled with lines like this. I have 335 folders and 335 pairs of lines like this per one "Go online." Jan 30 14:20:05 xyz dovecot: imap-login: Login: user=<abc>, method=PLAIN, rip=1.2.3.4, lip=5.6.7.8, secured Jan 30 14:20:05 xyz dovecot: IMAP(abc): Disconnected: Logged out bytes=89/1376 This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Terry Lambert 30 Jan '09

30 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com I was unaware that Mail was being a bad IMAP client. I suppose I should file a bug. I was going to ask how you were able to make that determination, but thinking about my experience using Mail, that seems pretty likely. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:25 AM, Terry Lambert <tlambert(a)apple.com> wrote: On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Steve Checkoway <s(a)pahtak.org> wrote: On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 07:46:59PM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: 1) Cyrus uses a process per client connection. It could use threads instead (which would be best), or it could use a process per client and route in-bound sockets to the clients server instance using descriptor passing over UNIX domain sockets. Burning a process per connection is a fairly standard thing to do. For example, apache. Actually, if you use apache 2.0, it uses threads. If you use antique apache, it's a work-to-do model, and tends to tear down the connection each time (HTTP 1.0 spec.) or uses an FSA and chunking (HTTP 1.1spec.). So in the first place, a few engines can handle requests from a lot if clients, and in the second, the dedicated processes are typically shirt-lived, unless the are doing something like pushing video over a multipart/refresh MIME type. 2) Your mail client is incorrectly designed. The IMAP protocol was specifically designed to allow session multiplexing by transaction ID over a single connection to the IMAP server from a client. Unfortunately, the clients I've seen (Mail and Thunderbird, to be precise) open a new connection for every mailbox. I was bitten by this even in a single user setting where when I connected to my mail server, Cyrus was limited in the number of children it would start and this was--by default--fewer than the number of mailboxes I had. If Mail does this then you *definitely* should file a bug. He stated here, and in his numerous posts on the other mailing lists, that he had only a few Mac OS X client machines, so I had assumed he was thinking about some other client. 3) Your mail client behaves incorrectly when it can't get a response; it opens another connection without closing the first one. Mail actually doesn't do this, but the most probable IMAP client on the mist probable non-Mac OS X platform does... I'm aware of this because I worked for a company that sold Cyrus- based mail appliances and started contributing patches to Cyrus in 1996. We saw this sort of thing all the time with certain mail clients on certain platforms. Sometimes connections will get "stuck" and have to be killed manually (by clicking the stop icon). Sounds like another bug in Mail. Who knew it was so buggy?! I wasn't taking about Mail because his clients are predominantly not Mac OS X based, so they aren't running Mail. If you have problems with Mail, it's likely the darwin-kernel mailing list is not the most profitable place to talk about them to get them resolved, and I'd suggest filing a bug report instead. -- Terry This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Terry Lambert 30 Jan '09

30 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Burning a process per connection is a fairly standard thing to do. For example, apache. Unfortunately, the clients I've seen (Mail and Thunderbird, to be precise) open a new connection for every mailbox. I was bitten by this even in a single user setting where when I connected to my mail server, Cyrus was limited in the number of children it would start and this was--by default--fewer than the number of mailboxes I had. I was unaware that Mail was being a bad IMAP client. I suppose I should file a bug. I was going to ask how you were able to make that determination, but thinking about my experience using Mail, that seems pretty likely. Sometimes connections will get "stuck" and have to be killed manually (by clicking the stop icon). Sounds like another bug in Mail. Who knew it was so buggy?! _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… On Jan 29, 2009, at 10:55 PM, Steve Checkoway <s(a)pahtak.org> wrote: On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 07:46:59PM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: 1) Cyrus uses a process per client connection. It could use threads instead (which would be best), or it could use a process per client and route in-bound sockets to the clients server instance using descriptor passing over UNIX domain sockets. Actually, if you use apache 2.0, it uses threads. If you use antique apache, it's a work-to-do model, and tends to tear down the connection each time (HTTP 1.0 spec.) or uses an FSA and chunking (HTTP 1.1spec.). So in the first place, a few engines can handle requests from a lot if clients, and in the second, the dedicated processes are typically shirt-lived, unless the are doing something like pushing video over a multipart/refresh MIME type. 2) Your mail client is incorrectly designed. The IMAP protocol was specifically designed to allow session multiplexing by transaction ID over a single connection to the IMAP server from a client. If Mail does this then you *definitely* should file a bug. He stated here, and in his numerous posts on the other mailing lists, that he had only a few Mac OS X client machines, so I had assumed he was thinking about some other client. 3) Your mail client behaves incorrectly when it can't get a response; it opens another connection without closing the first one. Mail actually doesn't do this, but the most probable IMAP client on the mist probable non-Mac OS X platform does... I'm aware of this because I worked for a company that sold Cyrus-based mail appliances and started contributing patches to Cyrus in 1996. We saw this sort of thing all the time with certain mail clients on certain platforms. I wasn't taking about Mail because his clients are predominantly not Mac OS X based, so they aren't running Mail. If you have problems with Mail, it's likely the darwin-kernel mailing list is not the most profitable place to talk about them to get them resolved, and I'd suggest filing a bug report instead. -- Terry This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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