January 2009 - Darwin-kernel

Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Nathan 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ScJpHfaRmn/Ww274i+j1CpXGywynGY03m1OZXGO6vC4=; b=NGZHRkuZB9TBVj0h1rYynNp8SObRsA9qAqYfqPDo3BBkMHl/HmFFujKe7U3rTKjylz NS2XqBtWDyLLiUt3+RFTeT8RezXMExuU3jo8y4iYlxex1WSGNB5CyQRi2ip3IDZpeirJ 6YwuYap9ODtyswoX4Ito4PgIMc0NTsTpaiGvk= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VNIDPVHQw1RE8B+3FsAOEL4zWRlWwYvyO6OgJ9NWpkmW/MO7wXjAM1R2ip+o8OQpPg HK7jwVKyRV70heJSTzHtp5kCes3gFIUFZZ8xUngxZg/Byg0uETuCjk4BccmUk7uWzADL 9Xcegf+sddjn5sVHcggsMYNW5VT5gxakqcvlY= MM, Are you asking what hardware I have? If so, I have the latest version of Xserve with 8 Core 2 Duo cores running at 2.8Ghz and 16GB RAM on two mirrored 1TB Apple hard drive modules. I don't understand the second half of your question...if you're asking what Cyrus is, it is the component of the mail system that Apple uses by default to provide local mail delivery and IMAP service to mail clients. ~ Nathan On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:22 PM, mm w <openspecies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > There is no conf about wich hardware in running Cyrus, the server app > should be configurable in some way? > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Nathan <nathan.stocks(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:53 PM, mm w <openspecies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> I don't know Cyrus, but is there no way to setup this? >> >> I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are specifically asking. Could >> you elaborate? >> >> ~ Nathan >> > > > > -- > -mmw > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by mm w 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GwvZA5zBMpLEo5XYtySUPKgC8KOmg8kXU0V4vfLnkhk=; b=xKPGWvkItMQQLl2xH7QRTQCyuTgi+4A82VNPVu0XbqswFvTVk7P9mWJv8/WO94gXTR 6zqqjb0elS2CbJGNNeHTUTOyCVc3f3EIR5URJA04UevHOdj0skQZbPg83saTL6Z/tNcu pJW8PpX/n74fp24RXcKd3AqDnbtFiX/8Hrnyg= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=MH9y4FAQm+n/mV0K6AdORJZP66dufRsrzsD2KYacC12S4Edgd8UUKj4TZWoVWYOR6l DVE0zC+ViBfIcnf/WNmFRd8nBrybt3FpNizXXknJMDb/RSGRW5Ni4NFAgDqh5cJXBJ04 X2AdUqKCHpi5joIKr2vYFc7iqntFplp3vItnE= There is no conf about wich hardware in running Cyrus, the server app should be configurable in some way? On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Nathan <nathan.stocks(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:53 PM, mm w <openspecies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I don't know Cyrus, but is there no way to setup this? > > I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are specifically asking. Could > you elaborate? > > ~ Nathan > -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Nathan 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=O8q5V2X6/LEBNOjOoV717s34PAdnZXrKqllE12FhYEA=; b=Uy9m89y5I742P60ETOYCpKdIOgfv+u9FXWx+3Z+ReRv8eSR+VIQlo3JOVNccYcmFg9 WdUjwqTJqAI4rWSlrUs30x1S5RvGaJ0E6QNU/pJA71TbAINj2z5t/mp5NV6H6Pao6+yM O4reg+q/ebvLyiI8PGn/zkADhKcqX5lwjQnPg= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=S3wxFH+dqnTOio8uum/lSWmNhxaa4M722+4LYqh4xROWel+9u1t+6EsiCD9u7gu5G3 T0oIwLpYYPyX74DxgU88K5P/N0LgvQYebpNi2Ga6Mk69qMJXb+My3bACnc4W6vUV6ITY l8XYGW04xma4zIW6J8iRV0hqrG+Y/8uTDZV04= On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:53 PM, mm w <openspecies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I don't know Cyrus, but is there no way to setup this? I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are specifically asking. Could you elaborate? ~ Nathan _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Nathan 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jKPXSxu0RQVUfxiSF+0DuWKJnEm3JlusAQzmHcL8b3w=; b=qMhrD6CYDcy6lZYS54KU7q+vq+WZfwWRrIkPX29h39ozGXWRHR9dzszh+N35IXnzU+ 8GYulaOpFltPYV0eW3CgMdZ6+2oOBykCZNvoLpcWgNLk8kGD98HByF/gGU89+b3+pYBO RYEKID69ufXInJUshKjgj9OggdWgpiS3sA2fs= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=XhPx4i1R15nmOOWyfuw7pR4EtXr7HqJpP2JSkaOcGTNDHot7xyEUEJ+dbTKYFNYJ5X 0tXbSfCwcO9xgAyWOY1KhaC7ZLDnw22ejSO/6O73VkTZ9mRh4WWOXIlc9K6mbw7+wmta O/l9Tsst19IZpZLc7YRMAGM4og5/jMr/j/Zzk= On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:41 PM, mm w <openspecies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Nathan <nathan.stocks(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:43 PM, mm w <openspecies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi Nathan, there is or was certainly a reason for this limit, >>> a hard limit is either more than or equal to a soft limit, as you said >>> the soft limit can be changed through sysctl command, >>> >>> this value wasn't always defined as 2500, for instance, NPROC is >>> using MAXUSERS, macosx is "by default" compiled with a "Medium scale" limit >>> you can change it at compile time to setup a "larger scale" limit >>> anyway these specifications are available in the UNIX03 process structure part >>> >> >> 1) Where can I download the kernel so I can look through some of the >> source myself? It's not on the list at macosforge.org. > > http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html > > must have an ADC account > > http://developer.apple.com/products/membership.html You are correct, it prompted me for my ADC credentials. I've been a member for years, and it took my login just fine. I downloaded this: http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/tarballs/apsl/xnu-1228.9.59.ta… >> 2) More description of NPROC, MAXUSERS, and "scales", and UNIX03 would >> be helpful. I'd be happy to read up on them if someone could point me >> in the right direction. Where should I look? The source code? >> > > http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/docs/UNIX03_Certification_Guide.html > > and so > > http://www.opengroup.org/platform/lfs.html Awesome! I'll start reading... > "hard limit > A system resource limitation that may be reset to a lesser or greater > limit by a privileged process. A non-privileged process is restricted > to only lowering its hard limit. " Good point. I'm using the term "hard limit" incorrectly. The hard limit is the value of kern.maxproc, which is adjustable. The limit that I'm specifically working to raise right now is the "2500" value that you can't raise kern.maxproc above without recompiling the kernel. What's the term for that? Limit of the hard limit? Hard limit ceiling? Glass ceiling? Ozone layer? > (just for the example), you may find all what you need on the > opengroup website, it's a bit a mess, but it's like everything when > you will understand how to navigate, should be fine > > > but anyway A hardWARE limit is a physical limit, so there is a reason Point taken, but if my pentium-III 800Mhz linux server with 512MB RAM could regularly handle tens of thousands of processes (most of which weren't actually doing anything, mind you), I'm quite confident that my 8 x C2D 2.8GHz Xserve with 16GB RAM is not the cause for OS X's only allowing 2500 processes max. If the performance of the hardware was the decision to set the process limit, it's high time to revisit the issue. >> 3) Does anyone know what buttons I could push at Apple to get (at >> least) the server kernel compiled with "larger scale" or something >> like that? I'd like this fix to be available to the larger community, >> which really means getting it into an official OS update. > >> Where should I look? The source code? > > yes, change the default conf, and patch for non automated files I'll check that out. Thanks for all the helpful comments! ~ Nathan _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by mm w 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=RHx5PTl1lAvv/5xbXlJGJBnMphe8GB0PIm6g3OSMLhg=; b=MOg6Gg3Qi1yOdGOoM2Mx3ht9bz5DAcdxRwM2v/aH+veRrW84gyUAYw8Er3mpGvSGbi 6FsViXvIX5hhcm2shn82S2r3Nc2ba1zSLrM/fH/SLDEKZ4nIys107w0w6OuyRrKMCiL2 cDfl+InQkAJMfa4QIMSSpk/CFKEsKbSw+NYpE= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=tn/YbZhuDaGXTabo3pV5UUkT/Aijc541Ay+PIgmaWhKG/PdEq3W4GO5fjSBGOGjfUT MkSjI81A2r8HuBq/IIBTxF5R1OTYd//IWx1JRMBewTOgyMICUT4jZdedxpuxSmd0xJt2 Cnt7n15eAxrLlcqc0AciyI+bTv1KUL52bb4hk= I don't know Cyrus, but is there no way to setup this? On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Nathan <nathan.stocks(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:29 PM, William Kucharski <kucharsk(a)mac.com> wrote: >> Nathan wrote: >> >>> 1) Where can I download the kernel so I can look through some of the >>> source myself? It's not on the list at macosforge.org. >> >> <http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/> > > Sweet! I thought I had discovered all of the Apple/OSS sites, but I'd > missed that one somehow. New places to explore... > >>> 2) More description of NPROC, MAXUSERS, and "scales", and UNIX03 would >>> be helpful. I'd be happy to read up on them if someone could point me >>> in the right direction. Where should I look? The source code? >> >> That's the best place, or Amit Singh's "Mac OS X Internals" book. >> >> You can also learn much from reading other books on the design of UNIX, like >> "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD Operating System" or "UNIX >> Internals." > > Great suggestions. I went and ordered Amit Singh's book. > >>> 3) Does anyone know what buttons I could push at Apple to get (at >>> least) the server kernel compiled with "larger scale" or something >>> like that? I'd like this fix to be available to the larger community, >>> which really means getting it into an official OS update. >> >> No idea, but is your mail server really so busy that there are THAT many >> simultaneous users, or is there something else going on? > > Yes, I have that many simultaneous users. No, I'm only using the > server for mail. > >> Have you verified that the process limit is, indeed, being hit? > > Yes. > > Is it really that hard to believe? I have over 250 employees, and > cyrus seems to spawn three processes for each Mail.app user and one or > two for each Thunderbird user. It's trivial for me to hit the 266 > process limit for the _cyrus user. Most of the time the connections > aren't actually _doing_ anything, so the load (cpu, ram, bandwidth, > disk activity, etc.) on my server is trivial. > > ~ Nathan > -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Nathan 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=+gt+CpPdi1eu2xTJfYZteaHrdGstlr9sYMqYX9uFSBI=; b=bVMkBFPcq7aMiWyH1EMuL4cQ15LWF4pSgW5ImM3/E5ewKD/HQlYWYTStahO0IpVtLU WK6RWNimDm1X8gz2BmL1NYDn8Jh/Nkth5tE1QO/UH9UeUU144HmPT/S2fNj9cVI6tTiz IHsqcZcigqiCQ0qRODzxCRiHR8Auj42+Z5miQ= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rWsVpYXSjDCvwHmr9ShorSNjPzQoTHbub12467Wo3oaKKSm5LneOQ+91vXfdv3o4QX 2rRuZ0uBkR2tZvCj/CEOHbwHze64YmJtnuQDMoLMseLTRbyw3HjJtizlOM0m8UCL0L/N t41qmTYETKVXgjen2Yr7YrtXPPG+k1CL9FIEU= On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 3:29 PM, William Kucharski <kucharsk(a)mac.com> wrote: > Nathan wrote: > >> 1) Where can I download the kernel so I can look through some of the >> source myself? It's not on the list at macosforge.org. > > <http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/> Sweet! I thought I had discovered all of the Apple/OSS sites, but I'd missed that one somehow. New places to explore... >> 2) More description of NPROC, MAXUSERS, and "scales", and UNIX03 would >> be helpful. I'd be happy to read up on them if someone could point me >> in the right direction. Where should I look? The source code? > > That's the best place, or Amit Singh's "Mac OS X Internals" book. > > You can also learn much from reading other books on the design of UNIX, like > "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD Operating System" or "UNIX > Internals." Great suggestions. I went and ordered Amit Singh's book. >> 3) Does anyone know what buttons I could push at Apple to get (at >> least) the server kernel compiled with "larger scale" or something >> like that? I'd like this fix to be available to the larger community, >> which really means getting it into an official OS update. > > No idea, but is your mail server really so busy that there are THAT many > simultaneous users, or is there something else going on? Yes, I have that many simultaneous users. No, I'm only using the server for mail. > Have you verified that the process limit is, indeed, being hit? Yes. Is it really that hard to believe? I have over 250 employees, and cyrus seems to spawn three processes for each Mail.app user and one or two for each Thunderbird user. It's trivial for me to hit the 266 process limit for the _cyrus user. Most of the time the connections aren't actually _doing_ anything, so the load (cpu, ram, bandwidth, disk activity, etc.) on my server is trivial. ~ Nathan _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by mm w 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=l51kRtPYHfUOYPpbBhi1Ja2keu6DFLjqgeglOJGqGmg=; b=ijjTw7rXunXG/CJVOq7inmxdvYVuswJJJd14vSbilXfQDmYcyX2hufhNt5GvAAkU3+ XZXLxzE4puWMqHQ6e9ozFccQ5r1HxB+ihuLG2iBCLJVa22QSxgTt/fs3dXLmqSkg/WaZ CX4kSiHUMPAAdT/kn9HLBMRa4lMvvDjNt9QX0= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=U7jCaedgk/O7egyXgrA7wVnWwWQ7gX2/oToK+DsQSJVllBNRMTfNZ6kCsghB8M3PXQ iDWG+iBCQBtGKHCGrizo5JTUQD1l3fgIZqKTMLVYz6zjKXOm8kl39u4TL+JAl5hFyXNQ 0n0IzpxLvcl+o4p33drciWVUzRBeeC9cPYoWs= On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 2:08 PM, Nathan <nathan.stocks(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:43 PM, mm w <openspecies(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Nathan, there is or was certainly a reason for this limit, >> a hard limit is either more than or equal to a soft limit, as you said >> the soft limit can be changed through sysctl command, >> >> this value wasn't always defined as 2500, for instance, NPROC is >> using MAXUSERS, macosx is "by default" compiled with a "Medium scale" limit >> you can change it at compile time to setup a "larger scale" limit >> anyway these specifications are available in the UNIX03 process structure part >> > > 1) Where can I download the kernel so I can look through some of the > source myself? It's not on the list at macosforge.org. http://developer.apple.com/opensource/index.html must have an ADC account http://developer.apple.com/products/membership.html > > 2) More description of NPROC, MAXUSERS, and "scales", and UNIX03 would > be helpful. I'd be happy to read up on them if someone could point me > in the right direction. Where should I look? The source code? > http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/docs/UNIX03_Certification_Guide.html and so http://www.opengroup.org/platform/lfs.html "hard limit A system resource limitation that may be reset to a lesser or greater limit by a privileged process. A non-privileged process is restricted to only lowering its hard limit. " ... (just for the example), you may find all what you need on the opengroup website, it's a bit a mess, but it's like everything when you will understand how to navigate, should be fine but anyway A hardWARE limit is a physical limit, so there is a reason > 3) Does anyone know what buttons I could push at Apple to get (at > least) the server kernel compiled with "larger scale" or something > like that? I'd like this fix to be available to the larger community, > which really means getting it into an official OS update. > Where should I look? The source code? yes, change the default conf, and patch for non automated files Cheers! > > ~ Nathan > -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by William Kucharski 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090110) Nathan wrote: 1) Where can I download the kernel so I can look through some of the source myself? It's not on the list at macosforge.org. <http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/> 2) More description of NPROC, MAXUSERS, and "scales", and UNIX03 would be helpful. I'd be happy to read up on them if someone could point me in the right direction. Where should I look? The source code? That's the best place, or Amit Singh's "Mac OS X Internals" book. 3) Does anyone know what buttons I could push at Apple to get (at least) the server kernel compiled with "larger scale" or something like that? I'd like this fix to be available to the larger community, which really means getting it into an official OS update. Have you verified that the process limit is, indeed, being hit? William Kucharski _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… You can also learn much from reading other books on the design of UNIX, like "The Design and Implementation of the 4.4 BSD Operating System" or "UNIX Internals." No idea, but is your mail server really so busy that there are THAT many simultaneous users, or is there something else going on? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by Nathan 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=yZ86uZdX3o7NGqp5ihbf/9tLikdhbSUm8YLkCak8Rko=; b=lVjuLXYg4Nug8n1+Pyzf7XYy5bppTmdRhSASb+808vSZqaYzqcbH5YQVzgY2biUkXD GS0XfMQEKeiYzaPGf7qb2uutUqVp27y8MICcvasggMjDWuCoTL4flZijBsGfBA6Ftg7E 6DUzf6NGbZT69L/u/GoVik6h5EPA43MBE+Fc8= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Aufg++hVNnqPSYQLXJH4zPAmFDo3euK5LPOwz8BAItjRkp8ydA8vkwoxYcD4CrdYAN vvmvRjpl5jSGOB8jy9NerZS21RDODxMfbXmWMmqnlNszYQEZITFEDmQS+CnqCMiOPnuc 97+Rxd/5ockgyPITF0ZfeRi1/fXkeyMBbQdkQ= On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 12:43 PM, mm w <openspecies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Nathan, there is or was certainly a reason for this limit, > a hard limit is either more than or equal to a soft limit, as you said > the soft limit can be changed through sysctl command, > > this value wasn't always defined as 2500, for instance, NPROC is > using MAXUSERS, macosx is "by default" compiled with a "Medium scale" limit > you can change it at compile time to setup a "larger scale" limit > anyway these specifications are available in the UNIX03 process structure part > 1) Where can I download the kernel so I can look through some of the source myself? It's not on the list at macosforge.org. 2) More description of NPROC, MAXUSERS, and "scales", and UNIX03 would be helpful. I'd be happy to read up on them if someone could point me in the right direction. Where should I look? The source code? 3) Does anyone know what buttons I could push at Apple to get (at least) the server kernel compiled with "larger scale" or something like that? I'd like this fix to be available to the larger community, which really means getting it into an official OS update. ~ Nathan _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Hard-limits for kern.maxproc
by mm w 29 Jan '09

29 Jan '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dVCFuZZR7jgiCTRRoz1xtKljBdHoZg0wLk6F7LeQMVc=; b=LpCUx23iCi3iss+n5kGs6JLu3iJ+o9VXGRVKQ20xZUKR9dFe/yrHI70f+y6LGrof+D 2Joi5lVVQPkCtEpZk5/oASG8u7yv1oHrEmye6iPQRtnMPb/Y8uYaR0DGwT+nlRP8wLPV SeAN2ywsq4VVgHiOB8WtLoIokvwiTI3SGCyEM= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=oqPEDvyYOIc4a1whAhFxMEtAn4OHhXZocf7xbC5vn+xtL2GJw4rkgGILL6crhfqVFy OlAkXV9Tui9JVgS9rsHJybckz8sO00tQg6iBDbQKTqzRZ8SDqpz0IPkCuy3uRkGMZ6O4 LrEVzxe8PQh0PMWn9GRgA4Hy7yM4JzZ3svrFk= Hi Nathan, there is or was certainly a reason for this limit, a hard limit is either more than or equal to a soft limit, as you said the soft limit can be changed through sysctl command, this value wasn't always defined as 2500, for instance, NPROC is using MAXUSERS, macosx is "by default" compiled with a "Medium scale" limit you can change it at compile time to setup a "larger scale" limit anyway these specifications are available in the UNIX03 process structure part Cheers! On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Nathan <nathan.stocks(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've been posting about this to macos-x-server and unix-porting for a > few days before it dawned on me that there was probably a kernel > mailing list. So...Hi! My name's Nathan and this is my first post. > > ---- > > After a frustrating and long search for the root of the various > problems I was having with my new Xserve serving email via IMAP, I was > tipped off by... > > http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1659 > > ...that the kernel has insanely low defaults (for a server) for > kern.maxproc (532), which controls the maximum amount of processes > allowed to run on the system. While trying to raise the default to a > reasonable value (Linux defaults to 32,768 for example), I discovered > that I couldn't raise it above 2500. Peter O'Gorman tells me off that > this is a hard-coded limit in Xnu: > > ./bsd/conf/param.c:#define HNPROC 2500 /* based on thread_max */ > > I've already filed rdar://6536876 asking that this be raised, but as > I've had very poor returns with my filed bugs that I spent a long time > researching, and very good returns on Apple mailing lists (go > apple-x11!), I thought I'd post here too. :-) > > Is there any reason the hard limit couldn't be raised an order of > magnitude or two? Even with raising kern.maxproc (and > kern.maxprocperuid and the launchd settings that mirror it and > launchd's maxfiles setting, etc. etc) my Xserve will run into the > process limit far before it exhausts CPU, RAM, disk, or bandwidth > resources. > > I'd be happy to provide some legwork (testing, doing some sanity > checks on stuff in the kernel source code, etc.) if that would help. > I am a registered ADC member and I'm willing to get my hands dirty to > get this fixed. I've set up four-dozen OS X stations up in my > company, as well as 200 linux stations, all of which access our Xserve > for mail. It was very embarassing when we switched from our email > hosting provider (who used OpenBSD) to our own Apple Xserve (I didn't > want to have to learn to configure courier+cyrus+postfix+whatever all > by myself on a Linux server) that we had so many problems for so long > and it took two months to narrow it down to an apparently arbitrarily > small value for kern.maxproc (and launchd). > > ~ Nathan > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/openspecies%40gmail.com > > This email sent to openspecies(a)gmail.com > -- -mmw _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-kernel mailing list (Darwin-kernel(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-kernel/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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