October 2007 - Pro-apps-dev

Re: inconsistent FxPlug color parameter behavior
by Dave Howell 02 Oct '07

02 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dave On Oct 2, 2007, at 6:45 AM, Steve Christensen wrote: On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Dave Howell wrote: Hi Steve, Dave On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:33 PM, Steve Christensen wrote: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Yeah good point. So you'd need to add the slider regardless, and just hide it if it is not needed. And you'd need to save (in a hidden custom parameter) an indicator of whether the correct alpha value is found in the RGBA parameter or in the slider. I guess this is not such a simple workaround! If I understand the documentation, parameter settings are saved in the project, tied to a parameter ID. If a user created a project using a version of FCP that doesn't support RGBA, later updated to one that did and opened the project under the new version, wouldn't the alpha value get lost if it was tied to a slider that is no longer added? Unlike Motion, FCP does not currently support RGBA color parameters. As a workaround, as you said, you could add a separate float alpha slider, but you would only want to do this in a host that doesn't support RGBA parameters. Unfortunately there's no flag in FxHostCapabilities.h that would tell you whether or not the host supports RGBA colors. If you assume that FCP doesn't support alpha, and you add a separate alpha slider to your plug- in, and then a new FCP adds alpha to its RGBA colors, you suddenly have two conflicting alphas and your users are confused. So, what to do? Here's an idea. I'm not sure if it will work though. In your addParameters method, you could add an RGBA parameter, and set its value to something with an interesting alpha. Then retrieve the value to see if the alpha value is correct. If it's right, then the host supports RGBA; if not, then only RGB (in which case you would add the alpha slider). Looking at FCP's FxPlug code, it appears that this may work, but I haven't tried it. There are some other things we could try, but this is most straightforward, if it works. In my plug-in, I have a color parameter that I added using - addColorParameterWithName:parmId:defaultRed:defaultGreen:defaultBlue :defaultAlpha:parmFlags:. In Motion, the parameter shows up, as expected, with all four channels (RGBA) in the UI and clicking on the color swatch brings up a color panel that includes an alpha slider. In FCP, the parameter shows up as HSB and clicking on the color swatch brings up a color panel with only grays/RGB/CMYK/HSB selectable. This really seems like it's broken, certainly inconsistent. Can I hope that this will work as expected in the future or should I just assume that's the way it'll always be and create a separate alpha parameter? steve This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: inconsistent FxPlug color parameter behavior
by Steve Christensen 02 Oct '07

02 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:57 PM, Dave Howell wrote: Hi Steve, Dave On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:33 PM, Steve Christensen wrote: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… If I understand the documentation, parameter settings are saved in the project, tied to a parameter ID. If a user created a project using a version of FCP that doesn't support RGBA, later updated to one that did and opened the project under the new version, wouldn't the alpha value get lost if it was tied to a slider that is no longer added? Unlike Motion, FCP does not currently support RGBA color parameters. As a workaround, as you said, you could add a separate float alpha slider, but you would only want to do this in a host that doesn't support RGBA parameters. Unfortunately there's no flag in FxHostCapabilities.h that would tell you whether or not the host supports RGBA colors. If you assume that FCP doesn't support alpha, and you add a separate alpha slider to your plug-in, and then a new FCP adds alpha to its RGBA colors, you suddenly have two conflicting alphas and your users are confused. So, what to do? Here's an idea. I'm not sure if it will work though. In your addParameters method, you could add an RGBA parameter, and set its value to something with an interesting alpha. Then retrieve the value to see if the alpha value is correct. If it's right, then the host supports RGBA; if not, then only RGB (in which case you would add the alpha slider). Looking at FCP's FxPlug code, it appears that this may work, but I haven't tried it. There are some other things we could try, but this is most straightforward, if it works. In my plug-in, I have a color parameter that I added using - addColorParameterWithName:parmId:defaultRed:defaultGreen:defaultBlue: defaultAlpha:parmFlags:. In Motion, the parameter shows up, as expected, with all four channels (RGBA) in the UI and clicking on the color swatch brings up a color panel that includes an alpha slider. In FCP, the parameter shows up as HSB and clicking on the color swatch brings up a color panel with only grays/RGB/CMYK/HSB selectable. This really seems like it's broken, certainly inconsistent. Can I hope that this will work as expected in the future or should I just assume that's the way it'll always be and create a separate alpha parameter? steve This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: inconsistent FxPlug color parameter behavior
by Dave Howell 02 Oct '07

02 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi Steve, Dave On Oct 1, 2007, at 9:33 PM, Steve Christensen wrote: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Unlike Motion, FCP does not currently support RGBA color parameters. As a workaround, as you said, you could add a separate float alpha slider, but you would only want to do this in a host that doesn't support RGBA parameters. Unfortunately there's no flag in FxHostCapabilities.h that would tell you whether or not the host supports RGBA colors. If you assume that FCP doesn't support alpha, and you add a separate alpha slider to your plug-in, and then a new FCP adds alpha to its RGBA colors, you suddenly have two conflicting alphas and your users are confused. So, what to do? Here's an idea. I'm not sure if it will work though. In your addParameters method, you could add an RGBA parameter, and set its value to something with an interesting alpha. Then retrieve the value to see if the alpha value is correct. If it's right, then the host supports RGBA; if not, then only RGB (in which case you would add the alpha slider). Looking at FCP's FxPlug code, it appears that this may work, but I haven't tried it. There are some other things we could try, but this is most straightforward, if it works. In my plug-in, I have a color parameter that I added using - addColorParameterWithName:parmId:defaultRed:defaultGreen:defaultBlue:d efaultAlpha:parmFlags:. In Motion, the parameter shows up, as expected, with all four channels (RGBA) in the UI and clicking on the color swatch brings up a color panel that includes an alpha slider. In FCP, the parameter shows up as HSB and clicking on the color swatch brings up a color panel with only grays/RGB/CMYK/HSB selectable. This really seems like it's broken, certainly inconsistent. Can I hope that this will work as expected in the future or should I just assume that's the way it'll always be and create a separate alpha parameter? steve This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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inconsistent FxPlug color parameter behavior
by Steve Christensen 02 Oct '07

02 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com steve _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… In my plug-in, I have a color parameter that I added using - addColorParameterWithName:parmId:defaultRed:defaultGreen:defaultBlue:def aultAlpha:parmFlags:. In Motion, the parameter shows up, as expected, with all four channels (RGBA) in the UI and clicking on the color swatch brings up a color panel that includes an alpha slider. In FCP, the parameter shows up as HSB and clicking on the color swatch brings up a color panel with only grays/RGB/CMYK/HSB selectable. This really seems like it's broken, certainly inconsistent. Can I hope that this will work as expected in the future or should I just assume that's the way it'll always be and create a separate alpha parameter? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: No midi timecode support in FCP
by Helena Ju 01 Oct '07

01 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: gamma curve applied in fcp when jumping around the timeline
by Paul Schneider 01 Oct '07

01 Oct '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi, Ben, Thanks, - Paul On Sep 28, 2007, at 11:45 AM, Benjamin Kent wrote: Hi, Thanks _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… there shouldn't be any difference in gamma between our RT display path and the render-to-file path, at least in the common case of YUV(a)2.2 footage in a YUV(a)2.2 sequence. There might be some issues with an RGB still in a YUV sequence. Final Cut treats RGB stills as if they had a gamma of 1.8 by default (although you can change this in the Item Properties). It's possible that there is an inconsistency here, although I'm not aware of any specific issues. If you want, you can send me your project and linear ramp image, and I can take a look. I may be going mad, but it appears that the image data I get in an FxPlug plug-in when jumping around the timeline in FCP is different to when I render a sequence - it appears that it has been through a slight gamma correction (although nothing as extreme as sRGB). To verify this I dropped a linear ramp image into my timeline - zero on the left and full white on the right. Plotting the intensity from left to right inside the plug-in yielded a curve when jumping around the timeline, but a straight line (as expected) when rendering the sequence. Is this expected behaviour - maybe something to do with FCP correcting for the display? If so, is there a way to know if the data you're getting has been corrected, or whether you're in a render? Ben _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/pschneider% 40apple.com This email sent to pschneider(a)apple.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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