April 2009 - Pro-apps-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Keyframe access
by Darrin Cardani 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

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Re: Keyframe access
by Giangotango Bono 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

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Re: Keyframe access
by Pierre Jasmin 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Organization: RE:Vision Effects User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) On Apr 24, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Pierre Jasmin wrote: get BeforeOrEqual KF value get AfterOrEqual KF value Sorry, this should return &time and &index as well, so you if you need the KF location of 2 values, you can then ask (if it exists) index-1 or index+1 or nothing based on that returned value This is just a contraction of: 1) Am I on a KF? A) If not Nearest KF before (or after) B) If so what is my KF index? Example application: Right now in absence of animated menus with step/constant animation, the value of an integer slider tells us nothing as if one goes from state 3 to 6, we are not interested in getting 4 and 5 as in-betweens... so the only reliable thing is the values located at KF times... get NumKeys and allow index first to last remove KF at time clear KF stream (can be just a loop done by us) set KF Value at time copy KF (can also be getValueAtTime and setValueAtTime) same as when you set a value right now which creates a new keyframe for end points of an interval FYI and FWIW: This is what we did for OFX: /** @brief Copies one parameter to another, including any animation etc... \arg paramTo parameter to set \arg paramFrom parameter to copy from \arg dstOffset temporal offset to apply to keys when writing to the paramTo \arg frameRange if paramFrom has animation, and frameRange is not null, only this range of keys will be copied This copies the value of \e paramFrom to \e paramTo, including any animation it may have. All the previous values in \e paramTo will be lost. To choose all animation in \e paramFrom set \e frameRange to [0, 0] This function can be called the ::kOfxActionInstanceChanged action and during image effect analysis render passes. \pre - Both parameters must be of the same type. \return - ::kOfxStatOK - all was OK - ::kOfxStatErrBadHandle - if the parameter handle was invalid */ OfxStatus (*paramCopy)(OfxParamHandle paramTo, OfxParamHandle paramFrom, OfxTime dstOffset, OfxRangeD *frameRange); if Curve Type (eg step/constant, linear, bezier...) - set Curve Type assuming a KeyFrame Editor Graph: - Add Group, and Add Param only in Timeline view In FCP case user level cut and paste of parameter streams between anywhere to effects param would be a start Thanks! Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Darrin Cardani wrote: So if you pass in a time value, these would give you the closest previous or next keyframe? Is this so you can do your own type of interpolation? Just curious - it doesn't sound too difficult to implement. So, you mean copy a keyframe from one time to another? or another param, if same param it's OK to put same param as From and To In the case of bezier keyframes, what would happen to the tangents in this scenario? I could see some odd results coming from this if they aren't handled right. I don't think I understand what you mean here. Can you elaborate on what this would involve? Right now in Motion, users have the ability to see only certain parameters in the Timeline Keyframe editor, or to see all of them. You are right... you can see that it's Pete that supports Motion here :) In FCP, each parameter has a keyframe editor next to it in the viewer window. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "only in Timeline view" or what groups have to do with it. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Keyframe access
by Darrin Cardani 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Yes, And I forgot a couple things: RemoveKeyAtTime(float t); And EvaluateCurveAtTime(float t, Value &val); Thanks, Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… On Apr 24, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Peter Litwinowicz wrote: Where Value is a union of all the settable types, plus a type identifier. How would this be different than the current -getFloat/Int/ BoolValue:fromParm:atTime:? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Keyframe access
by Darrin Cardani 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Darrin On Apr 24, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Patrick Sheffield wrote: Patrick On Apr 24, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Darrin Cardani wrote: Thanks! Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Duly noted. I've thought about this before, but don't know how many people would be interested in it. I will keep it in mind, though. While I can think of all kinds of fun things one could do with access to this data (smoothing, etc), what I really need in FxPlug support is a library of routines that provide the functionality available in FxScript. I realize this is something that big time developers probably don't need, but to the "casual" developer such as myself - I just don't have the resources to write a huge library containing blur routines/keying routines/blend mode routines/etc... In fact, I really see no reason that there couldn't be a FxScript to FxPlug compiler... That would aid migration ENORMOUSLY. I understand that you're largely geared to supporting the big developers, but thought I'd put my 2¢ in... It was great to see several of you at NAB this week! I hope you all had a great time and made a lot of money. :) In talking with 3rd party developers about the future of the FxPlug API, one thing that came up repeatedly was the need for an API that allows access to the app's keyframe data. [snip] tion. I'm hoping we'll be able to implement it, but first we have to design it and discuss it. :) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Keyframe access
by Peter Litwinowicz 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: AcnFH/rZoo8LJP3XH0uFMwTg/7MAag== Thread-topic: Keyframe access User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.17.0.090302 > In addition to the value, you'd probably also need the tangent values > when doing spline-type interpolations, right? Yes, And I forgot a couple things: RemoveKeyAtTime(float t); And EvaluateCurveAtTime(float t, Value &val); Where Value is a union of all the settable types, plus a type identifier. Pete _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Keyframe access
by Patrick Sheffield 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=earthlink.net; b=WLOGSStWYD8zj4UdN8ar2viAjoSp0eHNaVc7/Vww+7wC1QtcAfSz8AcKfrXL/Iz+; h=Received:Cc:Message-Id:From:To:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Patrick On Apr 24, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Darrin Cardani wrote: Thanks! Darrin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com While I can think of all kinds of fun things one could do with access to this data (smoothing, etc), what I really need in FxPlug support is a library of routines that provide the functionality available in FxScript. I realize this is something that big time developers probably don't need, but to the "casual" developer such as myself - I just don't have the resources to write a huge library containing blur routines/keying routines/blend mode routines/etc... In fact, I really see no reason that there couldn't be a FxScript to FxPlug compiler... That would aid migration ENORMOUSLY. I understand that you're largely geared to supporting the big developers, but thought I'd put my 2¢ in... It was great to see several of you at NAB this week! I hope you all had a great time and made a lot of money. :) In talking with 3rd party developers about the future of the FxPlug API, one thing that came up repeatedly was the need for an API that allows access to the app's keyframe data. [snip] tion. I'm hoping we'll be able to implement it, but first we have to design it and discuss it. :) smime.p7s

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Re: Keyframe access
by Darrin Cardani 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Apr 24, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Pierre Jasmin wrote: get BeforeOrEqual KF value get AfterOrEqual KF value get NumKeys and allow index first to last remove KF at time clear KF stream (can be just a loop done by us) set KF Value at time copy KF (can also be getValueAtTime and setValueAtTime) if Curve Type (eg step/constant, linear, bezier...) - set Curve Type assuming a KeyFrame Editor Graph: - Add Group, and Add Param only in Timeline view Thanks! Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… So if you pass in a time value, these would give you the closest previous or next keyframe? Is this so you can do your own type of interpolation? Just curious - it doesn't sound too difficult to implement. So, you mean copy a keyframe from one time to another? In the case of bezier keyframes, what would happen to the tangents in this scenario? I could see some odd results coming from this if they aren't handled right. I don't think I understand what you mean here. Can you elaborate on what this would involve? Right now in Motion, users have the ability to see only certain parameters in the Timeline Keyframe editor, or to see all of them. In FCP, each parameter has a keyframe editor next to it in the viewer window. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "only in Timeline view" or what groups have to do with it. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Keyframe access
by Darrin Cardani 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Apr 24, 2009, at 12:34 PM, Peter Litwinowicz wrote: struct KeyFrameValue { float keytime; union { float floatval; int intval; string stringval; Point pointval; } val; } This is great info. Thanks! Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Well first can we make menu choices in FCP and Motion be animatable in the UI? I've only been asking for 9 years now :-). That's much more important to me than getting/setting keyframe values (which we would like too). This would also necessitate a "step" interpolation type (in addition to linear and bezier) so that menus evaluate to the last keyed value. Just like AE. Preachin' to the choir! Believe me, we know how much you want this feature. :) ... snipped a bunch of stuff that totally makes sense... Where KeyFrameValue would have a float of the time of the keyframe, and a union of all the settable types. Something like: In addition to the value, you'd probably also need the tangent values when doing spline-type interpolations, right? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Keyframe access
by Pierre Jasmin 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Organization: RE:Vision Effects User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) Darrin, Well first can we make menu choices in FCP and Motion be animatable in the UI? I've only been asking for 9 years now :-). That's much more important to me than getting/setting keyframe values (which we would like too). This would also necessitate a "step" interpolation type (in addition to linear and bezier) so that menus evaluate to the last keyed value. Just like AE. It seems something like this would be useful (pseudo-code in c-style because I still don't "get" Objective C): GetNumKeyFrames(); GetKeyFrameValue(int whichkeyframe, KeyFrameValue &key); SetKeyFrameValue(int whichkeyframe, KeyFrameValue &key); Where KeyFrameValue would have a float of the time of the keyframe, and a union of all the settable types. Something like: struct KeyFrameValue { float keytime; union { float floatval; int intval; string stringval; Point pointval; } val; } SetKeyFrameValue would set or replace a key at a given time. Note it would also be useful to have: IsKeyAtTime(float time); There also needs to be a way to set/get the interpolation type for the animated param. Per-key interpolation type would be the best, for expandability in the future when that becomes available in the apps. So a "interpolation type" could be added to the KeyFrameValue struct. I'm sure there's much more to discuss, but this is a good place to get started. Pete It was great to see several of you at NAB this week! I hope you all had a great time and made a lot of money. :) In talking with 3rd party developers about the future of the FxPlug API, one thing that came up repeatedly was the need for an API that allows access to the app's keyframe data. I'd like to hear from you what you want out of such an API. I'm looking at After Effects' AEGP_KeyframeSuite as a reference, and I'm wondering if it provides you with what you need, or if you feel anything is missing from it, or if you find it too cumbersome? (For example, there's an AEGP_InsertKeyframe () function which appears to tell the app there's a new keyframe, but doesn't actually set the keyframe's value. Then there's also the AEGP_StartAddKeyframes () function which appears to tell the app that there will be new keyframes, but again doesn't actually allow you to set their values. Seems a little convoluted.) Anyway, please share your ideas here on the list or with me privately. And I should say that this in no way guarantees that such a thing will make it into any future version of any particular application. I'm hoping we'll be able to implement it, but first we have to design it and discuss it. :) Thanks! Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/pete%40revisionfx.com This email sent to pete(a)revisionfx.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/jasmin%40revisionfx.com This email sent to jasmin(a)revisionfx.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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