April 2009 - Pro-apps-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Keyframe access
by Peter Litwinowicz 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: AcnFE55w5WZ09at4Z0iiv1Uvcb4+5A== Thread-topic: Keyframe access User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.17.0.090302 Darrin, Well first can we make menu choices in FCP and Motion be animatable in the UI? I've only been asking for 9 years now :-). That's much more important to me than getting/setting keyframe values (which we would like too). This would also necessitate a "step" interpolation type (in addition to linear and bezier) so that menus evaluate to the last keyed value. Just like AE. It seems something like this would be useful (pseudo-code in c-style because I still don't "get" Objective C): GetNumKeyFrames(); GetKeyFrameValue(int whichkeyframe, KeyFrameValue &key); SetKeyFrameValue(int whichkeyframe, KeyFrameValue &key); Where KeyFrameValue would have a float of the time of the keyframe, and a union of all the settable types. Something like: struct KeyFrameValue { float keytime; union { float floatval; int intval; string stringval; Point pointval; } val; } SetKeyFrameValue would set or replace a key at a given time. Note it would also be useful to have: IsKeyAtTime(float time); There also needs to be a way to set/get the interpolation type for the animated param. Per-key interpolation type would be the best, for expandability in the future when that becomes available in the apps. So a "interpolation type" could be added to the KeyFrameValue struct. I'm sure there's much more to discuss, but this is a good place to get started. Pete > It was great to see several of you at NAB this week! I hope you all > had a great time and made a lot of money. :) > > In talking with 3rd party developers about the future of the FxPlug > API, one thing that came up repeatedly was the need for an API that > allows access to the app's keyframe data. I'd like to hear from you > what you want out of such an API. I'm looking at After Effects' > AEGP_KeyframeSuite as a reference, and I'm wondering if it provides > you with what you need, or if you feel anything is missing from it, or > if you find it too cumbersome? (For example, there's an > AEGP_InsertKeyframe () function which appears to tell the app there's > a new keyframe, but doesn't actually set the keyframe's value. Then > there's also the AEGP_StartAddKeyframes () function which appears to > tell the app that there will be new keyframes, but again doesn't > actually allow you to set their values. Seems a little convoluted.) > Anyway, please share your ideas here on the list or with me privately. > > And I should say that this in no way guarantees that such a thing will > make it into any future version of any particular application. I'm > hoping we'll be able to implement it, but first we have to design it > and discuss it. :) > > Thanks! > Darrin > -- > Darrin Cardani > dcardani(a)apple.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/pete%40revisionfx.com > > This email sent to pete(a)revisionfx.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Keyframe access in FxPlug
by Emile Tobenfeld (a. k. a Dr. T) 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi Darrin, Thanks! Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/emilet%40borisfx.com -- F. Scott Fitzgerald Emile Tobenfeld, Ph. D. Video Producer Image Processing Specialist Video for your HEAD! Boris FX http://www.foryourhead.com http://www.borisfx.com http://www.youtube.com/Tobenfeld _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… I'm ccing Jason, who wrote the animated preset code for AE. This the reason we need this feature, although we could probably find other uses for it down the road. Jason, ' You are much better placed than I to answer Darrin's question in more detail. Thanks. At 11:43 AM -0700 4/24/09, Darrin Cardani wrote: It was great to see several of you at NAB this week! I hope you all had a great time and made a lot of money. :) In talking with 3rd party developers about the future of the FxPlug API, one thing that came up repeatedly was the need for an API that allows access to the app's keyframe data. I'd like to hear from you what you want out of such an API. I'm looking at After Effects' AEGP_KeyframeSuite as a reference, and I'm wondering if it provides you with what you need, or if you feel anything is missing from it, or if you find it too cumbersome? (For example, there's an AEGP_InsertKeyframe () function which appears to tell the app there's a new keyframe, but doesn't actually set the keyframe's value. Then there's also the AEGP_StartAddKeyframes () function which appears to tell the app that there will be new keyframes, but again doesn't actually allow you to set their values. Seems a little convoluted.) Anyway, please share your ideas here on the list or with me privately. And I should say that this in no way guarantees that such a thing will make it into any future version of any particular application. I'm hoping we'll be able to implement it, but first we have to design it and discuss it. :) This email sent to emilet(a)borisfx.com "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." Visit "Before the Fall -- Images of the World Trade Center" at http://www.foryourhead.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Keyframe access
by Darrin Cardani 24 Apr '09

24 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks! Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… It was great to see several of you at NAB this week! I hope you all had a great time and made a lot of money. :) In talking with 3rd party developers about the future of the FxPlug API, one thing that came up repeatedly was the need for an API that allows access to the app's keyframe data. I'd like to hear from you what you want out of such an API. I'm looking at After Effects' AEGP_KeyframeSuite as a reference, and I'm wondering if it provides you with what you need, or if you feel anything is missing from it, or if you find it too cumbersome? (For example, there's an AEGP_InsertKeyframe () function which appears to tell the app there's a new keyframe, but doesn't actually set the keyframe's value. Then there's also the AEGP_StartAddKeyframes () function which appears to tell the app that there will be new keyframes, but again doesn't actually allow you to set their values. Seems a little convoluted.) Anyway, please share your ideas here on the list or with me privately. And I should say that this in no way guarantees that such a thing will make it into any future version of any particular application. I'm hoping we'll be able to implement it, but first we have to design it and discuss it. :) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug "Mix" setting
by Pierre Jasmin 12 Apr '09

12 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Organization: RE:Vision Effects User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) Darrin On Apr 9, 2009, at 7:19 PM, Paul Schneider wrote: - Paul On Apr 9, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Peter Litwinowicz wrote: Perhaps I just missed something in the SDK docs? Pete -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com This email sent to jasmin(a)revisionfx.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Darrin Cardani wrote: I know that it seems to us like it doesn't make sense sometimes, but I've learned over the years that no matter what I think about a feature, someone will use it for an artistic look that I didn't expect. :) Just a thought, maybe this could be replaced by a checkbox: "Preserve main input in AUX buffer" And then you ship with a "blend or mix" effect that can mix the input (the result of previous effect) and the current Aux buffer in memory (where that AUX buffer is a valid second image input to the effect). Pierre Unfortunately, there's no way to turn off the "mix" slider. It would be nice if you could; we have some plugins for which it doesn't really make sense either (smoothcam, deinterlace, etc). Is there a way to turn off FxPlug's standard "Mix" setting that is added? For things like retiming (which our Twixtor plugin performs) this is a pretty much useless, if not confusing, setting. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/jasmin%40revisionfx.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug "Mix" setting
by Peter Litwinowicz 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: Acm5/jWqr8KGFt23Mk2eyj2TmrFJJw== Thread-topic: FxPlug "Mix" setting User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.15.0.081119 > I know that it seems to us like it doesn't make sense sometimes, but > I've learned over the years that no matter what I think about a > feature, someone will use it for an artistic look that I didn't > expect. :) > Hmmm... That's a different way of saying "it's a feature, not a bug" that I haven't heard before. :-) Pete _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug "Mix" setting
by Darrin Cardani 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Darrin On Apr 9, 2009, at 7:19 PM, Paul Schneider wrote: - Paul On Apr 9, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Peter Litwinowicz wrote: Perhaps I just missed something in the SDK docs? Pete -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… I know that it seems to us like it doesn't make sense sometimes, but I've learned over the years that no matter what I think about a feature, someone will use it for an artistic look that I didn't expect. :) Unfortunately, there's no way to turn off the "mix" slider. It would be nice if you could; we have some plugins for which it doesn't really make sense either (smoothcam, deinterlace, etc). Is there a way to turn off FxPlug's standard "Mix" setting that is added? For things like retiming (which our Twixtor plugin performs) this is a pretty much useless, if not confusing, setting. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug "Mix" setting
by Paul Schneider 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi Pete, - Paul On Apr 9, 2009, at 8:28 PM, Peter Litwinowicz wrote: Perhaps I just missed something in the SDK docs? Pete _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/pschneider%40apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Unfortunately, there's no way to turn off the "mix" slider. It would be nice if you could; we have some plugins for which it doesn't really make sense either (smoothcam, deinterlace, etc). Is there a way to turn off FxPlug's standard "Mix" setting that is added? For things like retiming (which our Twixtor plugin performs) this is a pretty much useless, if not confusing, setting. This email sent to pschneider(a)apple.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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FxPlug "Mix" setting
by Peter Litwinowicz 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: Acm5e6ZdCC/zNvyk3kGm1DXrF9Zzjw== Thread-topic: FxPlug "Mix" setting User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.15.0.081119 Is there a way to turn off FxPlug's standard "Mix" setting that is added? For things like retiming (which our Twixtor plugin performs) this is a pretty much useless, if not confusing, setting. Perhaps I just missed something in the SDK docs? Pete _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: How to distinguish between Viewer and Inspector renders in Motion?
by Pauli Ojala 07 Apr '09

07 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 7.4.2009, at 21.57, Darrin Cardani wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Pauli Ojala wrote: -- Pauli Ojala Lacquer oy/ltd pauli(a)lacquer.fi _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… In Motion, an FxPlug's render method gets called twice: first for the "real" render, then for the small preview at the top of the Inspector window. My plugin now performs analysis on the input texture, and I don't want the analysis results to get updated when the tiny preview is rendered, so I need a way to distinguish between the two types of renders. Is there a flag passed somewhere that would directly indicate which type of frame is being rendered? (I may be missing something completely obvious here...) We don't supply any way to do this. However, could you do something like cache the results of the last analysis and reuse them if it's the same frame value? Or, it's not ideal, but you could cache a struct holding the frame size and frame number. When asked to render, if the frame number exists in the cache, only do the analysis if the frame size is larger than what's stored in the cache. (Of course, you'll have to figure out if that works for very small frames, as it may be possible for the actual layer to be smaller than its preview, I think, in extremely rare cases.) Thanks, I guess that's what I'm going to do -- caching the frame number and size should work just fine for what I'm trying to accomplish. (I'm not too worried about the rare case where the preview might be larger than the original layer, my main concern is just that I don't want to pointlessly overwrite the latest analysis results with a lower-resolution version of the same frame.) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: How to distinguish between Viewer and Inspector renders in Motion?
by Darrin Cardani 07 Apr '09

07 Apr '09

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Pauli Ojala wrote: Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… In Motion, an FxPlug's render method gets called twice: first for the "real" render, then for the small preview at the top of the Inspector window. My plugin now performs analysis on the input texture, and I don't want the analysis results to get updated when the tiny preview is rendered, so I need a way to distinguish between the two types of renders. Is there a flag passed somewhere that would directly indicate which type of frame is being rendered? (I may be missing something completely obvious here...) We don't supply any way to do this. However, could you do something like cache the results of the last analysis and reuse them if it's the same frame value? Or, it's not ideal, but you could cache a struct holding the frame size and frame number. When asked to render, if the frame number exists in the cache, only do the analysis if the frame size is larger than what's stored in the cache. (Of course, you'll have to figure out if that works for very small frames, as it may be possible for the actual layer to be smaller than its preview, I think, in extremely rare cases.) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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