July 2011 - Pro-apps-dev - lists.apple.com

FxPlug/Final Cut Pro X Rendering issue (32 vs. 16 bit Float textures).
by Michael Jonsson 13 Jul '11

13 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=YB0UHcKyySVaQZhZjp7+t+1B1WMHDuLpWKqOrQ1LPGo=; b=fzuLzdc7r8xGUDr8DEDI6okJ783fIkAgH8+u1ivhHbtVgAstEbYcCKG2H8ESBwjJMp 6JM2Z0t2+/iU05E+ElVcrC8s1wPA+z3XXOC0AJFU3oHXMf9QVYlYEdxZJjmbkSpW3bFz 7kJAOSsq0yLAy56Wj/ct7vXgQmzxKi1RYF144= Hi list, It appears there are some inconsistencies in respect to the data that is fed down to plugins under various circumstances when called from Final Cut Pro X. This concerns only GPU rendering. I see two scenarios when my plugin is called from Final Cut: 1. Expected behavior. Happens prior to rendering, say while I change parameters in my plugin UI and if I export when NO pre-rendered data is available (say if flush optimized media and turn background rendering OFF and export to H.264) - In this case renderOutput:withInput:withInfo: gets called with the following: FxTexture input depth = 16 FxTexture output depth = 16 FxRenderInfo.depth = kFxDepth_FLOAT16 Binding the input texture and doing a glGetTexLevelParameteriv(… GL_TEXTURE_INTERNAL_FORMAT…) reveals that the Internal format of the input texture handed down to renderOutput: is GL_RGBA32F_ARB. In my fragment shader I see the data that I expect; that is, super-white values over 1.0 etc.. In short, everything behaves as expected. Motion 5 everything behaves similar to above expected behavior both during playback/editing and exporting. 2. Unexpected behavior. This is where things gets strange… This happens (only?) when the plugin is called during background rendering. Here renderOutput:withInput:withInfo: gets called with the following: FxTexture input depth = 32 FxTexture output depth = 32 FxRenderInfo.depth = kFxDepth_FLOAT32 However, glGetTexLevelParameteriv(… GL_TEXTURE_INTERNAL_FORMAT…) reveals that the internal format of the texture is GL_RGBA8_EXT... (8bit pr channel...) In addition, in my fragment shader I see mostly the same data as in the 1st case but the over-range > 1.0 (i.e. super-white etc.) data is being truncated/clamped to 1.0… which is not the way its supposed to work.. I hope! :-) Any insights or workaround for this problem is highly appreciated. If not, I hope its something that can be addressed in an upcoming update. Cheers, Michael Rig: MacBookPro8,2 / Radeon HD 6750M / MacOSX 10.6.8. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Ben Syverson 12 Jul '11

12 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Switching to the 9600 GT made all the difference... It's now better than realtime, as it should be. I think the slowdown on the 9400M must be related to its weak 16 bit support. I will definitely need to alert users to be aware of which GPU they're using. Now that it's feeling snappy again, I'm enjoying this new Motion. :) Ben _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Ben Syverson 12 Jul '11

12 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi Darrin, > Please file a bug. I don't know if others are seeing this or not, but I've not heard of any other developers running into it. Okay, no problem—I'll do it first thing tomorrow. > Both will be in the color space your plug-in says it wants to work in. See the new color space properties. For example, if you want to work in a gamma 2.2 space, you'd add this to your properties: Okay, perfect—I love it. That's a great change. > I'm not sure why you're seeing those particular numbers. What video card are you dealing with? Keep in mind that all processing is now either 16 bit per channel in hardware, or 32-bit per channel in software, and it's always color managed, so we're doing a lot more work than we did in Motion 2. (And I'd guess Commotion didn't do all of that, either, but have to plead ignorance as I've never used it.) As such, we do have higher system requirements than in the past. I'm on a NVIDIA GeForce 9400M. Good catch—I'm going to switch to the 9600 GT and see if that helps at all. Thanks, Ben _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Darrin Cardani 12 Jul '11

12 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jul 11, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Ben Syverson wrote: > Okay, I got it working... Those drop down buttons in the UI do not work on launch, but if I first click on the Library tab, then click on them, they then work. This kind of behavior certainly does not inspire confidence. But I'm at least able to test some plugins. Please file a bug. I don't know if others are seeing this or not, but I've not heard of any other developers running into it. > Are color parameters now color managed (linearized)? Are textures color managed as well? Both will be in the color space your plug-in says it wants to work in. See the new color space properties. For example, if you want to work in a gamma 2.2 space, you'd add this to your properties: > [NSNumber numberWithInteger:kFxImageColorInfo_RGB_GAMMA_VIDEO], kFxPropertyKey_DesiredProcessingColorInfo, Otherwise, you can use kFxImageColorInfo_RGB_LINEAR for linear RGB. > Overall, my first impressions are rather depressing. Playback on my 2.8GHz 17" MBP (with no other app open) maxes out at around 20 fps for a tiny 60 frame, 540p RAM preview. For the RAM preview, fully rendered and left to loop a few times. Applying the "Brightness" FxPlug sample cuts the frame rate in half, to about 10 fps. Adjusting the size to 100% 1080p drops the playback of the RAM preview to 8fps. I feel like I'm using After Effects, and I mean that as a dis. > > Seriously, that is abysmal. Motion 2.0 gave me over 30 fps with an FxPlug applied, on a dinky 1 GHz 12" PowerBook. Commotion could play a fullscreen RAM preview at 24 fps during the Clinton administration. I'm not sure why you're seeing those particular numbers. What video card are you dealing with? Keep in mind that all processing is now either 16 bit per channel in hardware, or 32-bit per channel in software, and it's always color managed, so we're doing a lot more work than we did in Motion 2. (And I'd guess Commotion didn't do all of that, either, but have to plead ignorance as I've never used it.) As such, we do have higher system requirements than in the past. Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Ben Syverson 11 Jul '11

11 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Okay, I got it working... Those drop down buttons in the UI do not work on launch, but if I first click on the Library tab, then click on them, they then work. This kind of behavior certainly does not inspire confidence. But I'm at least able to test some plugins. Are color parameters now color managed (linearized)? Are textures color managed as well? Overall, my first impressions are rather depressing. Playback on my 2.8GHz 17" MBP (with no other app open) maxes out at around 20 fps for a tiny 60 frame, 540p RAM preview. For the RAM preview, fully rendered and left to loop a few times. Applying the "Brightness" FxPlug sample cuts the frame rate in half, to about 10 fps. Adjusting the size to 100% 1080p drops the playback of the RAM preview to 8fps. I feel like I'm using After Effects, and I mean that as a dis. Seriously, that is abysmal. Motion 2.0 gave me over 30 fps with an FxPlug applied, on a dinky 1 GHz 12" PowerBook. Commotion could play a fullscreen RAM preview at 24 fps during the Clinton administration. Ben _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Ben Syverson 11 Jul '11

11 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Darrin, Yeah, I looked in there earlier. Filters.bundle and PAECIAdapter.fxplug are both in there, and they look like they have all their internal bits, too. Ben On Jul 11, 2011, at 4:04 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: > One thing that occurred to me - can you check inside the Motion app bundle and see if the parts are all there? Inside Motion.app/Contents/PlugIns/FxPlug/ you should see Filters.bundle and PAECIAdaptor.fxplug, for example. > > Thanks, > Darrin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Darrin Cardani 11 Jul '11

11 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com One thing that occurred to me - can you check inside the Motion app bundle and see if the parts are all there? Inside Motion.app/Contents/PlugIns/FxPlug/ you should see Filters.bundle and PAECIAdaptor.fxplug, for example. Thanks, Darrin On Jul 11, 2011, at 1:54 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: > Ben, > I'll see if anyone here recognizes the problem. It's odd that it's happening with Behaviors, too. Neither Filters nor Behaviors are in the supplemental content. I'm not sure what you're referring to with Transitions. Do you mean Generators? > Also, what version of Xcode did you say you were working with? > > Thanks, > Darrin > > On Jul 11, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Ben Syverson wrote: > >> Darrin, >> >> It's extremely frustrating. When I launch Motion, it shows the Project Browser window, and then I get the old Beachball for anywhere from 10 seconds to a few minutes. The only thing in the console is: >> Motion[1334] Cannot lock focus on image <NSImage 0x1489482a0 Size={0, 0} Reps=( >> )>, because it is size zero. >> >> Once I launch, I can't see any Filters, Behaviors or Transitions. >> >> The Filters aren't in Motion Supplemental Content, are they? I'm downloading that now. >> >> Ben >> >> >> On Jul 11, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: >> >>> Ben, >>> I'll pass your command line string on to the xcode folks and see if they can help me figure that out. (BTW, which version of Xcode are you using? 3.2.6? 4.0.2? Something else?) >>> As for the other problems with Motion, that is extremely odd. It should coexist with FCP 7 just fine. What you're describing sounds a little bit like what happens when the PluginManager.framework gets overwritten with the wrong version, or gets deleted. However, with Motion 5, the PluginManager should now be contained inside the app bundle, so that shouldn't be possible anymore. (At least not through normal installations.) Is anything written to the console when you start the app? >>> >>> Darrin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/dcardani%40apple.com >> >> This email sent to dcardani(a)apple.com > > -- > Darrin Cardani > dcardani(a)apple.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/dcardani%40apple.com > > This email sent to dcardani(a)apple.com -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Ben Syverson 11 Jul '11

11 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Darrin, Oh yes, you're absolutely right—it's Generators, not Transitions. I'm on Xcode 3.2.5. Thanks so much for looking into this, Ben On Jul 11, 2011, at 3:54 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: > Ben, > I'll see if anyone here recognizes the problem. It's odd that it's happening with Behaviors, too. Neither Filters nor Behaviors are in the supplemental content. I'm not sure what you're referring to with Transitions. Do you mean Generators? > Also, what version of Xcode did you say you were working with? > > Thanks, > Darrin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Darrin Cardani 11 Jul '11

11 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Ben, I'll see if anyone here recognizes the problem. It's odd that it's happening with Behaviors, too. Neither Filters nor Behaviors are in the supplemental content. I'm not sure what you're referring to with Transitions. Do you mean Generators? Also, what version of Xcode did you say you were working with? Thanks, Darrin On Jul 11, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Ben Syverson wrote: > Darrin, > > It's extremely frustrating. When I launch Motion, it shows the Project Browser window, and then I get the old Beachball for anywhere from 10 seconds to a few minutes. The only thing in the console is: > Motion[1334] Cannot lock focus on image <NSImage 0x1489482a0 Size={0, 0} Reps=( > )>, because it is size zero. > > Once I launch, I can't see any Filters, Behaviors or Transitions. > > The Filters aren't in Motion Supplemental Content, are they? I'm downloading that now. > > Ben > > > On Jul 11, 2011, at 3:27 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: > >> Ben, >> I'll pass your command line string on to the xcode folks and see if they can help me figure that out. (BTW, which version of Xcode are you using? 3.2.6? 4.0.2? Something else?) >> As for the other problems with Motion, that is extremely odd. It should coexist with FCP 7 just fine. What you're describing sounds a little bit like what happens when the PluginManager.framework gets overwritten with the wrong version, or gets deleted. However, with Motion 5, the PluginManager should now be contained inside the app bundle, so that shouldn't be possible anymore. (At least not through normal installations.) Is anything written to the console when you start the app? >> >> Darrin > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/dcardani%40apple.com > > This email sent to dcardani(a)apple.com -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: FxPlug 2 Answers, etc.
by Ben Syverson 11 Jul '11

11 Jul '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Pierre, Thanks for the note. Interesting... In Xcode, I just have it set to "System Default (GCC 4.2)." I just tried it with LLVM Compiler 1.6, and got the same error. I'm ready to just import all these files into a new project, but it always takes a couple hours to get everything set correctly again when I do this. Ben On Jul 11, 2011, at 3:29 PM, Pierre Jasmin wrote: > > In case, > > In previous email it was looking for: > > i686-apple-darwin10-gcc-4.2.1 // note dot 1 > > and in your make line you have 4.2 (no dot 1) > > your default compiler (or a missing ln - link) might be wrong > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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