January 2003 - Bluetooth-dev

Re: bluetooth-dev digest, Vol 1 #66 - 5 msgs
by Stephan Mertz 20 Jan '03

20 Jan '03

Hi, I use a Sony-Ericsson HBH-30 headset with T68i every day. I am confronted with two problems: - from time to time, my correspondent does not hear me any more (he hears a buzz). But I do not know if it is the telephone which is in question or the headset. - more serious, the headset does not function any more if the bluetooth connection Mac <-> T68i is activated. Le lundi, 20 jan 2003, ` 07:01 Europe/Paris, bluetooth-dev-request(a)lists.apple.com a icrit : > Also, I'd love to hear from somebody who has a Bluetooth headset really > works well. > -- Stephan MERTZ, Improve SA WebObjects Project Manager Tel : 03.88.79.08.13 Fax: 03.88.40.27.84 Gsm : 06.11.64.69.19 http://www.improve.fr _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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Re: C API:s
by Ragnar Sundblad 20 Jan '03

20 Jan '03

--On den 19 januari 2003 18:59 -0800 Eric Brown <esb(a)apple.com> wrote: I don't think the problem you see with the audio is due to firmware. That sounds similar to what I've seen with a couple of different pieces of hardware. In this case, I really don't think it is a general bluetooth problem - the TDK dongle has two LEDs, on of which is blinking under certain (to me unknown) circumstances, it seems to be usage related. The SCO audio is chopped up with exact synkronization with that LED - LED on = audio on, LED off = audio off, in ~2Hz. Kind of funny. The problem I suspect is due to the way that the SCO connection works. It was designed with no retry mechanism. This unfortunately leads to various problems such as glitches, stutters and dropouts in different environments given that the 2.4GHz band is in such high use. That is an interresting theory, but I doubt that it is the (main) problem here. With my experiments the indication for lossy/bad communication and/or to far a distance was increased noise that sounded more or less like just ordinary plain good old beautiful old fashioned noise - the ultimate indication to the user that she must improve the radio conditions, move closer for example. In my personal experience, I haven't found a headset that worked well enough for my everyday use. It obviously depends what who wants to do with it. Heck, people call with GSM systems, watch VCDs and listen to internet "radio stations". Now try to define "well enough"! :-) I don't know what the problem with GSM phones and bluetooth headsets is, all I know is that it seems to only work satisfactory under certaion conditions, called party equipment included in the equation. I don't (yet) think we should rule out SCO and bluetooth as a headset connection just because of that. Given that a lot of the requests we've had for headset support is for speech recognition use, in my opinion, there's no way that the hardware that I've tested would have good enough sound quality for that use. Yep, that is important to point out! (Well, the phones obviously can separate a few words from each other even over bluetooth, so the audio link is not entirely useless for that, but I guess it won't work at all with the apple speech recognition of today since that is made for high quality audio input.) Now that IP telephony is starting to become more popular, it seems like more uses for the technology are opening up. Are there any decent IP telephony solutions for Mac OS X currently? I'd love to see more of those too! My colleague is trying to convince the QuickTime people to add the rest of the calls needed to make QuickTime do everything but talking SIP and interact with the user to make a SIP phone. (I think most of the things lacking can be pretty easily worked around, but I am not sure). He has a program that kind of works today, but has more of proof-of-concept status. (If you saw a guy walking around at WWDC sometimes talking into his TiBooks' keyboard with his nose almost stuck in the screen hinges you probably saw him, and you now know that he isn't (entirely) crazy. A portable headset solution is high on our whishlists. :-) The best place for non developer-related feature requests is the Bluetooth feedback e-mail address: <bluetooth(a)apple.com>. However we do hear the requests being made on this list (even if we can't always respond or talk about everything going on). I take it you have heard my nagging here then. I'll stop doing it for at least a week or so. :-) /ragge _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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Re: C API:s
by Eric Brown 20 Jan '03

20 Jan '03

On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 06:20 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote: --On den 19 januari 2003 21:34 +0100 Andri Alm <andre.alm(a)skyhigh.biz> wrote: Please add me too! I'd also be happy to test any SCO beta stuff you might have or get. We want to make software phones. I have seen several requests for using a Bluetooth headset for audio input and output. Here is one I happened to see the other day. And of course add me to the list who needs to get a SCO link working. I have heard about others using for example an ipaq with windows ce, bluetooth, wavelan and SIP phone software make wireless (bluetooth+wavelan) phone calls with good results. I could almost see it work for myself today. I tried out the beta of the TDK windows driver that is supposed to work OK with their pcmcia card, but not yet so good with the USB dongle I have. I can confirm the latter, something chops up the audio in both directions with the same interval as the dongle blinking, some 2Hz. I suspect the dongle firmware. Anyway, what was nice was that when audio comes through it sounds almost about as good as a POTS phone call (with the old first generation ericsson HBH-10) and the latency (I tried a DVD movie) was seemingly pretty good (not all that easy to tell when the audio is chopped up, but I think so). I have no idea which of the three audio formats, ulaw, alaw or adpcm, that the headset supports that the driver choosed to use. I don't think the problem you see with the audio is due to firmware. That sounds similar to what I've seen with a couple of different pieces of hardware. The problem I suspect is due to the way that the SCO connection works. It was designed with no retry mechanism. This unfortunately leads to various problems such as glitches, stutters and dropouts in different environments given that the 2.4GHz band is in such high use. In my personal experience, I haven't found a headset that worked well enough for my everyday use. Given that a lot of the requests we've had for headset support is for speech recognition use, in my opinion, there's no way that the hardware that I've tested would have good enough sound quality for that use. Now that IP telephony is starting to become more popular, it seems like more uses for the technology are opening up. Are there any decent IP telephony solutions for Mac OS X currently? Also, I'd love to hear from somebody who has a Bluetooth headset really works well. I do think that Apple should get support for it asap, and preferably make the sound manager glue for it too. People are already using their bluetooth headsets for telephony, and I doubt that interrest will decline any time soon. It would be sad if it couldn't be (easily) done on a Mac OS X machine. If it was just a little programming to do I could try out my ericsson rok101007-based dongle (with BT 1.1 firmware) on Mac OS X, I am pretty sure that one works ok with SCO, but emulating the entire stack, if so only for one single purpose, seems a little bit heavy for just testing purposes considering the time I currently have available for this project. Whom at apple should we talk to to get more SCO support in the Mac OS X bluetooth stack sooner rather than later? The best place for non developer-related feature requests is the Bluetooth feedback e-mail address: <bluetooth(a)apple.com>. However we do hear the requests being made on this list (even if we can't always respond or talk about everything going on). - Eric _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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Re: C API:s
by Ragnar Sundblad 20 Jan '03

20 Jan '03

--On den 19 januari 2003 21:34 +0100 Andri Alm <andre.alm(a)skyhigh.biz> wrote: Please add me too! I'd also be happy to test any SCO beta stuff you might have or get. We want to make software phones. I have seen several requests for using a Bluetooth headset for audio input and output. Here is one I happened to see the other day. And of course add me to the list who needs to get a SCO link working. I have heard about others using for example an ipaq with windows ce, bluetooth, wavelan and SIP phone software make wireless (bluetooth+wavelan) phone calls with good results. I could almost see it work for myself today. I tried out the beta of the TDK windows driver that is supposed to work OK with their pcmcia card, but not yet so good with the USB dongle I have. I can confirm the latter, something chops up the audio in both directions with the same interval as the dongle blinking, some 2Hz. I suspect the dongle firmware. Anyway, what was nice was that when audio comes through it sounds almost about as good as a POTS phone call (with the old first generation ericsson HBH-10) and the latency (I tried a DVD movie) was seemingly pretty good (not all that easy to tell when the audio is chopped up, but I think so). I have no idea which of the three audio formats, ulaw, alaw or adpcm, that the headset supports that the driver choosed to use. I do think that Apple should get support for it asap, and preferably make the sound manager glue for it too. People are already using their bluetooth headsets for telephony, and I doubt that interrest will decline any time soon. It would be sad if it couldn't be (easily) done on a Mac OS X machine. If it was just a little programming to do I could try out my ericsson rok101007-based dongle (with BT 1.1 firmware) on Mac OS X, I am pretty sure that one works ok with SCO, but emulating the entire stack, if so only for one single purpose, seems a little bit heavy for just testing purposes considering the time I currently have available for this project. Whom at apple should we talk to to get more SCO support in the Mac OS X bluetooth stack sooner rather than later? /ragge _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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Re: IOServiceMatching
by Eric Brown 20 Jan '03

20 Jan '03

On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 11:48 AM, Robert Grant wrote: If I wanted to detect the coming and going of Bluetooth devices I imagine I can use IOServiceMatching? But what would be the IO class name? I'm guessing: "IOBluetoothDevice"? And how about the PlugInInterface? Instead of using the raw IOKit APIs for device access, we've provided a more object-oriented wrapper around them with (hopefully) easier to use functions and ObjC objects to access the various Bluetooth layers. To find out about any device (i.e. baseband connection) coming and going, use IOBluetoothRegisterForDeviceConnectNotifications() or +[IOBluetoothDevice registerForConnectNotifications:selector:]. I've got the December developer tools but I don't seem to have the Bluetooth Framework. Isn't it included? All of the user-land Bluetooth APIs are in the IOBluetooth.framework in /System/Library/Frameworks. Have a look at either IOBluetoothUserLib.h or objc/IOBluetoothDevice.h. - Eric _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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Re: C API:s
by André Alm 19 Jan '03

19 Jan '03

>--On den 16 januari 2003 13:53 -0800 Michael Larson <larson(a)apple.com> >wrote: > >> There is currently not an API for SCO connections in the stack, so you >> will run into a rather large and hard wall here. This is something we >> are looking at for a future release. Its priority depends largely on >> the demand for SCO links. I assume I should add you to the list of >> requests. > >Please add me too! I'd also be happy to test any SCO beta stuff >you might have or get. We want to make software phones. I have seen several requests for using a Bluetooth headset for audio input and output. Here is one I happened to see the other day. And of course add me to the list who needs to get a SCO link working. ------------ From macintouch Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 11:17:24 -0400 From: Larry White Subject: Bluetooth report - wireless headsets FYI - OSX does not support the headset profile either. My bluetooth headset which works fine with my Nokia 6310i is not recognized by my Powerbook. It is too bad because I was looking forward to using it with ViaVoice. ------------ /Andri Hdlsningar Andri Alm DNS & System Engineer Office Data Vdsteres Tele: +46 - (0)21-17 22 50 Fax: +46 - (0)21-17 22 51 http://www.vasteras.office.se _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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IOServiceMatching
by Robert Grant 19 Jan '03

19 Jan '03

If I wanted to detect the coming and going of Bluetooth devices I imagine I can use IOServiceMatching? But what would be the IO class name? I'm guessing: "IOBluetoothDevice"? And how about the PlugInInterface? I've got the December developer tools but I don't seem to have the Bluetooth Framework. Isn't it included? Thanks, Robert. _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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Re: C API:s
by Ragnar Sundblad 17 Jan '03

17 Jan '03

--On den 16 januari 2003 13:53 -0800 Michael Larson <larson(a)apple.com> wrote: There is currently not an API for SCO connections in the stack, so you will run into a rather large and hard wall here. This is something we are looking at for a future release. Its priority depends largely on the demand for SCO links. I assume I should add you to the list of requests. Please add me too! I'd also be happy to test any SCO beta stuff you might have or get. We want to make software phones. /ragge _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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Re: C API:s
by Michael Larson 16 Jan '03

16 Jan '03

On Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 01:02 AM, Tommy Gunnarsson wrote: > Hello, I'm quite new in Mac OS X and I'm working on an application to > use a Bluetooth headset to the Mac. I will use the C API:s, but I > think it is quite hard to find out how to use them, not to much > documentation. > > My first question is, how can I generate or find the > IOBluetoothDeviceRef needed for almost every C API. > From IOBluetoothUserLib.h extern IOBluetoothDeviceRef IOBluetoothDeviceCreateWithAddress(BluetoothDeviceAddress *bdAddr); Pass in the device address you are interested in, and it will return you a device to use. As you have discovered, the easier way to do this by using the UI elements available from Cocoa do not work with Carbon. Without access to the inquiry functions, you really cannot cook your own UI either. We are looking at some things in this area. > Second, is it possible to use the Paired devices from the Bluetooth > system preferences, or must i build from the application with an own > Pairing window? > Paired devices are system-wide, so any device paired in the Prefs will be paired for your application as well. > The last question is, when I want to use the Headset I relly need the > SCO connection to transmitt the voice. I have not found any SCO > connection API and I wounder any API is developed for this kind of > application? > There is currently not an API for SCO connections in the stack, so you will run into a rather large and hard wall here. This is something we are looking at for a future release. Its priority depends largely on the demand for SCO links. I assume I should add you to the list of requests. -larson _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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C API:s
by Tommy Gunnarsson 16 Jan '03

16 Jan '03

Hello, I'm quite new in Mac OS X and I'm working on an application to use a Bluetooth headset to the Mac. I will use the C API:s, but I think it is quite hard to find out how to use them, not to much documentation. My first question is, how can I generate or find the IOBluetoothDeviceRef needed for almost every C API. Second, is it possible to use the Paired devices from the Bluetooth system preferences, or must i build from the application with an own Pairing window? The last question is, when I want to use the Headset I relly need the SCO connection to transmitt the voice. I have not found any SCO connection API and I wounder any API is developed for this kind of application? I hope someone knows _______________________________________________ bluetooth-dev mailing list | bluetooth-dev(a)lists.apple.com Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/bluetooth-dev Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

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