August 2013 - colorsync-users

HCT in i1Profiler
by Don Hutcheson 22 Aug '13

22 Aug '13

Yes ........................................................ Don Hutcheson HutchColor, LLC 87 Brass Castle Rd Washington, NJ 07882, USA office: (908) 689 7403 cell: (908) 500 0341 skype: hutchcolor ........................................................ On Aug 22, 2013, at 15:00 , colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Seeking advice prior to upgrading camera and scanner > calibration tools (HCT) (Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center) (Tyler Boley) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 13:12:53 -0700 > From: Tyler Boley <tyler(a)tylerboley.com> > To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Re: Seeking advice prior to upgrading camera and scanner > calibration tools (HCT) (Spinnaker Photo Imaging Center) > Message-ID: <52151F45.6010606(a)tylerboley.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > my understanding is the the latest update of i1profiler does support the > Hutch target.. no? > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Colorsync-users mailing list > Colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users > > End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 10, Issue 194 > ************************************************

1 0

Seeking advice prior to upgrading camera and scanner calibration tools (HCT)
by Paul Schilliger 20 Aug '13

20 Aug '13

Hi, Once again left with tools that are incompatible with newer Mac and OS… Amongst others, BasiCColor Scan PPC is not supported by OS 10.8. The good surprise though, is that the calibration package I have just purchased to calibrate my monitors seems to offer a free scanner and camera profiling option ! (but is it really operational at no additional cost, I mean without having a measuring tool other than the monitor puck plugged in?). However, my Hutchcolor HCT target (on Fuji Velvia) is unfortunately not supported by X-Rite i1Profiler. So, as far as I can see, I'm left with those two options: — Purchase a new IT8 target for the X-Rite software (no idea of the cost). — Upgrade BasiCColor Scan (already an upgrade from Profile City ICC Scan) to BasiCColor Input (no idea of the cost either). I came to like the target produced by Don Hutcheson. It is sort of wide gamut and extended range, compared to standard Kodak IT8 targets. Whether that alone makes better profiles, I assume it does, especially since I shot mainly Fuji Velvia in a former life, but I don't really know. My target is now maybe 10 years old though (and so are my slides), but it was used no more than 4 or 5 times and stored in a dark cool place. BasiCColor still lists the HCT target. Their older software made good profiles for the Eversmart scanner. I now wish to calibrate my Canon 1Ds III as well (with the included Hutcheson Crystal archive print I guess, also 10 years old). In the other hand, X-Rite software is certainly more convenient to use (unlike BasiCColor: one does it all and no need to register a machine specific TAN number that gets lost with every hardware upgrade or system renewal, though the BasiCColor team has always been helpful I must say). X-Rite i1 DisplayPro is the best Monitor profiler I have used so far, and allowed me to obtain a pretty good match of MBPr, NEC PA271 wide gamut and Lacie 321 standard gamut, all with specific backlighting options. Whether it would make as good or better camera profiles, I have no idea. Have you? Thanks in advance for your advice! Best regards Paul Schilliger

3 2

Re: WB, Gray Cards and Cloudy Days (Graeme Gill)
by Louis Dina 19 Aug '13

19 Aug '13

Thanks, Graeme. Wow...there is a lot of information that comes up from a search for "Color Appearance Models" by Mark Fairchild! I'm looking for the "lite version" for the lay person and will look around to see what I can find. Even if I don't understand it all, especially the math, hopefully I will gain a better understanding of how it all works (according to the model, anyway). Regards, Lou > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 00:38:16 +1000 > From: Graeme Gill <graeme2(a)argyllcms.com> > To: ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> > Subject: Re: WB, Gray Cards and Cloudy Days > Message-ID: <52122DD8.80408(a)argyllcms.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Louis Dina wrote: > > I'd like feedback on this topic, especially if there are any hard color > > science and studies to back it up. I'm also interested in general > opinions > > and observations, even if not backed up by science. > > Hi, > there is an awful lot of literature about chromatic adaptation > out there, if you go looking for it. One summary close to hand > for me was "Color Appearance Models" by Mark Fairchild. > > > If I use a spectrally neutral gray card on a heavily overcast day, and > use > > it to set WB in my Raw Converter, I usually find that my images end up > > being much warmer than the scene I perceived. > > This may not be too hard to explain. Chromatic adaptation to a display > screen > is typically close to complete, since often there are many white or grey > samples in your field of view. In general though, chromatic adaptation > may not be complete, and is the product of many visual and cognitive > mechanisms. If the prevailing color of a heavily overcast day is towards > blue, and especially if it is off the blackbody or daylight illuminant > locus > (I'm not sure if that can be the case - it would be interesting to > measure it), then perhaps you don't fully chromatically adapt to that > color, > so the overall appearance is cold - ie. your visual white point reference > is in a slightly warm direction from the scene illuminant. If you normalise > (ie. "chromatically adapt") your photo fully to the illuminant color, > then naturally it will look warmer than your partially chromatically > adapted visual impression of the real scene. > > Graeme Gill. > > >

1 0

WB, Gray Cards and Cloudy Days
by Louis Dina 19 Aug '13

19 Aug '13

I'd like feedback on this topic, especially if there are any hard color science and studies to back it up. I'm also interested in general opinions and observations, even if not backed up by science. If I use a spectrally neutral gray card on a heavily overcast day, and use it to set WB in my Raw Converter, I usually find that my images end up being much warmer than the scene I perceived. This phenomenon is independent of the camera profile, raw converter, monitor calibration and other links in the color chain, and while they all affect the result, sometimes significantly, my interest is primarily in how best to use a gray card to approach reality as we perceive it. What I do with the color afterward for artistic purposes is a separate matter. I know our visual systems do an internal Auto WB to correct for the color temperature of the prevailing light. However, if I drive around on a very heavily overcast, rainy day, the scene before my eyes still remains decidedly cool and deficient in the longer, warmer wavelengths. By contrast, a sunny day adds life a warmth to the same foliage. And at sunset, there is a distinct warmth and glow. It is my belief that our visual systems move the internal WB in the direction of neutralizing the light, but don't take it all the way to perfectly neutral. So, a gray card shot in "normal" daylight, heavy overcast and at sunset, will be perceived differently. At noon under 'white light' it will appear neutral, on a rainy day it will appear slightly bluish, and at sunset it will appear more yellow-orange. Back to my example. If I shoot a gray card under gloomy skies, and accept that as the correct color temp for this image in my raw converter, I am forcing the card to be perfectly neutral, when I believe our brains see it as cool-gray, no longer spectrally neutral. This makes sense to me because the trees look cool and less warm just driving around on a gloomy day. If this is correct, and I think it is, accepting the gray card WB forces the scene to be artificially warm and overly yellow. Same thing happens under incandescent light, around a campfire, at sunset, but this time the scene is forced to be artificially cool compared to what our brains really see. I still like using the gray card, because it provides a stable, measurable, neutral point of departure, a baseline, if you will. But, if ACR/LR gives me an overcast reading of 6500K/+5 Tint with the gray card, I find the resulting image to be overly warm. Lowering the temp by approximately 500K seems to always give me a more realistic image, more in line with my remembered perception of the scene. I know, this is perception, not science, and I also understand choice of camera profile, converter, monitor calibration, etc, all play a role in the final color, but the same phenomenon is at play. I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on this subject. I am particularly interested in any in-depth studies on the subject that relate to how the human visual system does its WB, and if it forces gray to be totally neutral as the light source diverges farther and farther from "normal" daylight. Thanks, Lou

11 23

Color target ideas?
by capteddy＠xmission.com 19 Aug '13

19 Aug '13

A few years back, someone (I think who was on this list) mentioned that the Land O Lakes butter box was a great color test target for color matching. That proved to be a great idea. I've used it in my classes since it is very affordable for students, easy to obtain and a real challenge - a lot of colors to get right in a print. Unfortunately, the depiction on the box is racially insensitive. Does anyone have any ideas of another common consumer product that might make for a good color test target for a color matching exercise? many thanks! -Edward Bateman University of Utah

1 0

Re: Perfect Exposure in the field with charts
by Jeffrey Stevensen 18 Aug '13

18 Aug '13

On Aug 18, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Ben Goren wrote: > Instead of shooting your white balance target today, you'd shoot a chart such as a ColorChecker or QPcard or whatever your favorite field target is. (And, as I mentioned, I can't sing the praises of the ColorChecker Passport highly enough.) > > When you get back to the studio, instead of doing a click white balance, you use a RPP preset to develop the shot... feed the image to a script that automatically does everything behind the scenes and spits out the numbers that you paste back into RPP. > > And that's it -- you're done; white balance _and_exposure_ are now perfectly normalized. Experience tells me that small changes in the angle of the chart in relation to the camera and the light source make very large changes in the relative exposure/light intensity on the chart in relation to the scene. I don't see how one could expect to hold the chart at exactly the right angle to the rest of the scene to get a "perfectly normalized" exposure even five times out of ten. Given that natural light is as agreed subject to interpretation, this quest for an automated "perfection" seems a chimera to me, at least regarding exposure. respectfully, Jeff Stevensen Jeff Stevensen Photography 82 Gilman Street Portland, ME 04102 207-773-5175 207-807-6961 mobile http://www.jstevensen.com http://photosightlines.com

1 0

Proof Colors in Photoshop
by Marcelo Copetti 12 Aug '13

12 Aug '13

Good morning I was reading about Soft-proofing and I would like to know is there is any way to leave "Proof Colors" enabled as default in Photoshop. I need to turn on the command all times that I need and for all open files. To use Photoshop for soft-proofing, I believe that makes sense to leave this command enabled all time. Thank you Marcelo Copetti

17 81

Re: i1Profiler linearization
by David Wollmann 11 Aug '13

11 Aug '13

Finally I was able to get back on the RIP. I set up the device, an i1Pro, both ways this time and finally Eye One Strip Mode worked! I can take normal readings. Thank you to everyone for your comments and help. I'm trying to pull a little more out of the printer but its current Ink Restrictions appear to indeed be where they are needed. David

1 0

Re: RGB Drivers in RIPs
by tlabarbera 08 Aug '13

08 Aug '13

>>edmund ronald <edmundronald(a)gmail.com>: I think there was a huge change about 2 generations ago, and now the big Epsons are very stable and have good drivers and good profiles; this is a surprise to those of us who owned the previous generations and smaller inkjets. I used to run a 9600, and now have an Epson 3880 sitting on my shelf, and there is simply nothing bad I can say about it apart from the ink costs. This has been pretty much the same experience of a friend of mine whose last inkjet printer was an Epson 1270. She has been hemming and hawing about buying a new inkjet printer for eons and a few weeks ago, finally bit the bullet ordering the 3880. Her reaction to her first test prints using Epson paper and Epson profiles was "Oh my! This is ever so much better than I expected". I was kind and didn't say "I told you"...'-}} I haven't yet warned her of the mac side (I'm pc based) issues with OS upgrades and Apple/Epson's penchant for totally mucking up one's workflow but I suspect as annoying as that is, she will deal with and and she's still going to be significantly happier with the 3880's output than she was with her 1270. Terrie http://tlbtlb.com/ tlbtlb(a)mail.com

3 2

Re: i1Profiler linearization
by David Wollmann 08 Aug '13

08 Aug '13

Currently the old media setup is printing smoother results than the imprecise spot readings of the new setup. Color has drifted slightly yellow with the original media setup after the head change, but it is still better than the new media setup. A head change, that is what prompted having a look at the media environment, to use a ColorBurst term. Output had been fine with the old media setup. Color was good, density was good, production was getting done and clients were happy. I still can not get the i1Pro to read in strip mode. It matters not if I choose strip mode or page mode in Onyx - all I get is single spot read mode. It also will indiscriminately activate the light at times whether or not my hand is on the button which makes it even more fun. Diligence and patients, keep your eye on the light. David On Aug 7, 2013, at 1:00 PM, colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com wrote: > >> The original testing and ink limiting for the media was done using Onyx 6.5, that media library was imported into Onyx 7.3.2. It should have brought the linearization over in the import. > > > That explains it! You just can't get a good profile on a printer like that without starting with a good lin. You might also double check that the other settings carried over as well. > > If you feel up to the task, it might be smart and start the whole ONYX Media Manager "Create new profile" over from scratch and go through the whole process to make sure you're optimizing everything from the start. On a solvent printer the results are so great when everything is perfectly dialed in. Unfortunately with a lot of the supplied profiles that's not the case. > > And BTW you can still use i1Proifler for the final profile. > > Scott Martin

2 2