January 2020 - colorsync-users

Re: Humans (and cameras and scanners) do not have a color gamut (?)
by Rich Wagner 14 Jan '20

14 Jan '20

> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 18:01:15 -0500, Henry Davis <davishr(a)bellsouth.net <mailto:davishr@bellsouth.net>> wrote: > > I?m as happy to admit my ?broad? ignorance as much as you are happy to point it out. Did you gain a talent for being snarky during or after working on your PhD? I’m sure during, although I’ve tried to extinguish that trait through the years. Grad school was in many ways like a shark tank, fed by the Dept. Chairman. ;-) My apologies if I came off as snarky, Henry. I am personally ignorant about an enormous number of topics, but I’m always happy to learn (as long as the topic is of interest). I’ve learned a lot from many contributors to this List, and on occasion I try to pass along information that might be of interest to others. The very diverse backgrounds of contributors on this list is a real benefit, and I know there are many out there who “lurk and learn.” On the other hand, I don’t care much for the occasional MMA rounds. So, speaking of tetrachromacy and counting colors, Concetta Antico claims she can resolve 100 million more colors than others. https://concettaantico.com/#supervision So what do her paintings look like to her? Does she pain to an audience of one, since almost no one else can see her work as she does? ;-) —Rich

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RE: colorsync-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 27
by graxx＠videotron.ca 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

Vielen danke, Her Drümmer, To your knowledge, are the images still sold with a "printed" brochure? Und, to your knowledge, ist der printed brochure "ISO-compliant"? MfG / Roger Breton -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Olaf Drümmer via colorsync-users Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 4:57 PM To: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net>; ColorSync <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: colorsync-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 27 I checked out archive.org <http://archive.org/> and found the last usable snapshot of the roman16.com <http://roman16.com/> website from 2017 (which seems to be working quite well): http://web.archive.org/web/20170720095939/http://www.roman16.com:80/en <http://web.archive.org/web/20170720095939/http://www.roman16.com:80/en> If someone wishes to order the Roman 16 images - there is a page at the bvdm website in both German and English: https://www.bvdm-online.de/shop/einzelansicht/? <https://www.bvdm-online.de/shop/einzelansicht/?>tx_wwproducts_products%5Bproduct%5D=14&tx_wwproducts_products%5Baction%5D=show&tx_wwproducts_products%5Bcontroller%5D=Products&cHash=0ab4d05749e7f62f9aa0b3d72d4b92be The link that appears on the bvdm order page pointing to the roman16.com <http://roman16.com/> website is unfortunately dead. Olaf > On 13. Jan 2020, at 16:40, Andrew Rodney via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote: > > Correction, Roman 16 (and the extra 4 I missed are superb too). You gotta buy them (not free to distribute) but they are worth every cent. There was a page in English, it’s no longer around that I can find. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

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RE: colorsync-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 27
by Axel Robert 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

Dear all, I just saw some images you apparently would like to share for display examination, aka "6 faces test images". IMHO, they are copyrighted, in Europe at least, while they are BVDM Roman16 part of it: https://www.bvdm-online.de/themen/technik-forschung/standardwerke/roman16/a… They are more than six and are indeed very useful not only for display but for the entire production. Best. Axel -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+axel.robert=ubisoft.com(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 9:00 PM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: colorsync-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 27 Send colorsync-users mailing list submissions to colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to colorsync-users-request(a)lists.apple.com You can reach the person managing the list at colorsync-users-owner(a)lists.apple.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of colorsync-users digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: basICColor Back on Track (edmund ronald) 2. RE: basICColor Back on Track (graxx(a)videotron.ca) 3. Re: basICColor Back on Track (Iliah Borg) 4. Re: Printer - RBB or CMYK? (Wire ~) 5. RE: Printer - RBB or CMYK? (graxx(a)videotron.ca) 6. Re: Printer - RBB or CMYK? (Scott Martin) 7. Dell UP2516D (Wire ~) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:08:14 +0100 From: edmund ronald <edmundronald(a)gmail.com> To: Andrew Rodney <andrew(a)digitaldog.net> Cc: Andrew Rodney via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: basICColor Back on Track Message-ID: <CAJe_MaiQb9RqmQJ1_faEsJ2gCp31A9ECcxf6CqT4E_KbBydWsw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" used Basiccolor display for years! On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 5:00 PM Andrew Rodney via colorsync-users < colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > That's great news. > I've been a fan of Franz work since he was "batty" and ColorBlind <G>. > > Andrew Rodney > http://www.digitaldog.net/ <http://www.digitaldog.net/> > > > On Jan 10, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Iliah Borg via colorsync-users < > colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > > > Dear Ladies and Gentlemen: > > > > Here is from basICColor press release: > > > > "... Karl Koch and Franz Herbert have teamed up to develop new and > improved versions of essential professional color management software > under the brand name basICColor: > > > > basICColor display: The monitor calibration and profiling solution, > > the > basICColor display software has been rewritten from the ground up with > many improvements. > > > > display 6 will be officially released Q1 2020, a pre-release version > > of > display 6 for macOS can be purchased now. > > > > The Windows version will be ready in time for the official release date. > > > > Upgrades are available for owners of basICColor display 5. > > > > basICColor input: generates highly superior DCP and ICC profiles for > digital cameras. The much improved basICColor input 6 will be released > at the start of COLOR20 in San Diego (11 -14 January 2020) in 3 versions: > > > > ? basICColor input 6 > > > > ? basICColor input 6 Pro > > > > ? basICColor inputRAW 6 > > > > Pre-release versions are available today. Upgrades are available for > owners of earlier basICColor input 5. > > > > basICColor cockpit: the most universal software for color correct > viewing and converting of color images of all sorts ? from raw to spectral!" > > > > Contact: > > > > Ingenieurbuero Dipl.-Ing. Karl Koch > > > > Maistrasse 18 > > > > D82377 Penzberg > > > > Germany > > > > info(a)basiccolor.de > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Iliah Borg > > LibRaw, LLC > > www.libraw.org > > www.rawdigger.com > > www.fastrawviewer.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > > colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/andrew%40digit > aldog.net > > > > This email sent to andrew(a)digitaldog.net > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/edmundronald%4 > 0gmail.com > > This email sent to edmundronald(a)gmail.com > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 11:13:34 -0500 From: <graxx(a)videotron.ca> To: <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: RE: basICColor Back on Track Message-ID: <000d01d5c7d0$e90ce8c0$bb26ba40$(a)videotron.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Thanks Iliah! Looking forward to this new generation of software. Too bad I'm not going SanDiego... Best / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Iliah Borg via colorsync-users Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 10:35 AM To: Andrew Rodney via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: basICColor Back on Track Dear Ladies and Gentlemen: Here is from basICColor press release: "... Karl Koch and Franz Herbert have teamed up to develop new and improved versions of essential professional color management software under the brand name basICColor: basICColor display: The monitor calibration and profiling solution, the basICColor display software has been rewritten from the ground up with many improvements. display 6 will be officially released Q1 2020, a pre-release version of display 6 for macOS can be purchased now. The Windows version will be ready in time for the official release date. Upgrades are available for owners of basICColor display 5. basICColor input: generates highly superior DCP and ICC profiles for digital cameras. The much improved basICColor input 6 will be released at the start of COLOR20 in San Diego (11 -14 January 2020) in 3 versions: . basICColor input 6 . basICColor input 6 Pro . basICColor inputRAW 6 Pre-release versions are available today. Upgrades are available for owners of earlier basICColor input 5. basICColor cockpit: the most universal software for color correct viewing and converting of color images of all sorts - from raw to spectral!" Contact: Ingenieurbuero Dipl.-Ing. Karl Koch Maistrasse 18 D82377 Penzberg Germany info(a)basiccolor.de -- Best regards, Iliah Borg LibRaw, LLC www.libraw.org www.rawdigger.com www.fastrawviewer.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 11:19:45 -0500 From: Iliah Borg <iliah.i.borg(a)gmail.com> To: graxx(a)videotron.ca Cc: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: basICColor Back on Track Message-ID: <3EE40EA4-A45F-48B5-A3BC-BE32F799C378(a)gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Roger, > Too bad I'm not going SanDiego Trials should be available: https://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-display-2/ https://www.basiccolor.de/basiccolor-input-6-pro-2/ -- Best regards, Iliah Borg LibRaw, LLC www.libraw.org www.rawdigger.com www.fastrawviewer.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 09:23:08 -0800 From: "Wire ~" <wire(a)lexiphanicism.com> To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Printer - RBB or CMYK? Message-ID: <CAHn9Um-mK+HTCsspDhSj21iD21YL68kcShKaYvy3vxPDQAamDw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 01:46 Scott Martin via colorsync-users < colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > Visual profiling targets are really helpful here. Do do this I print > both my Onsight RGB 8x10 Visual profiling target, and a CMYK P2P51H > Expanded target. You can download these at > https://www.on-sight.com/downloads/ < > https://www.on-sight.com/downloads/> I dig your 6 Faces test image! I found it looking for test images to examine this new wcg display. Thanks for putting that stuff on web. Source for the other CMYK target Scott mentions, plus more (yes, of course, any one can google but I was just there;) Hutch Color Test Images http://www.hutchcolor.com/Images_and_targets.html /wire > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 12:33:47 -0500 From: <graxx(a)videotron.ca> To: <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: RE: Printer - RBB or CMYK? Message-ID: <001a01d5c7dc$1e4ef040$5aecd0c0$(a)videotron.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Nice sets of targets ?? / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Friday, January 10, 2020 12:23 PM To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Printer - RBB or CMYK? On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 01:46 Scott Martin via colorsync-users < colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > Visual profiling targets are really helpful here. Do do this I print > both my Onsight RGB 8x10 Visual profiling target, and a CMYK P2P51H > Expanded target. You can download these at > https://www.on-sight.com/downloads/ < > https://www.on-sight.com/downloads/> I dig your 6 Faces test image! I found it looking for test images to examine this new wcg display. Thanks for putting that stuff on web. Source for the other CMYK target Scott mentions, plus more (yes, of course, any one can google but I was just there;) Hutch Color Test Images http://www.hutchcolor.com/Images_and_targets.html /wire > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 17:36:25 +0000 From: Scott Martin <scott(a)on-sight.com> To: Wire ~ <wire(a)lexiphanicism.com> Cc: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Printer - RBB or CMYK? Message-ID: <C2B65FAB-964B-49A8-AC5B-74198D0033D1(a)on-sight.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hey Wire! No, actually the P2P51H Expanded Ink Analysis target is not on the link you?ve provided but it is on my downloads page: https://www.on-sight.com/downloads/ <https://www.on-sight.com/downloads/> But of course you could use the non-expanded version? cheers. Scott Martin www.on-sight.com <http://www.on-sight.com/> Precise color science for printmaking professionals > On Jan 10, 2020, at 5:23 PM, Wire ~ via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com <mailto:colorsync-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote: > > Source for the other CMYK target Scott mentions, plus more (yes, of > course, any one can google but I was just there;) ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2020 10:59:06 -0800 From: "Wire ~" <wire(a)lexiphanicism.com> To: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List" <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Dell UP2516D Message-ID: <CAHn9Um8GP5KrvN72vHmrdwnVvQ7e_mOY8m4FfbofR6FszpOeqg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Turns out Dell offers the Xrite i1display app for WIn and Mac free and it works with non-dell branded i1displays. This SW can be used cal and load internal LUTs (there are two user cal slots available). Use same i1display with DisplayCal and a newer 10-bit display port data path and for $600 total cost including colorimeter (!wow) ($700 if u want a 27in display, QHD) you are doing gorgeous wide gamut that's pure as virgin snow. I have found my 8-bit setup is producing perfectly smooth tonality with superb response, even without the custom LUT, so I will not seek to upgrade vid in this old Mac as not needed for my purposes. Safe to say that with this display you mosdef can see the limits of 8-bit appear in certain gradients. So I see why the industry has gone to "billions of colors" I did have a glitch where for a while DisplayCal got weird and started producing weird lumpy results. I shut it down, unplugged DTP94 then started over and everything was sweet again. No matter how far things advance, it seems a personal computer must be arbitrarily reset sometimes to make it work. I'm using MacOS Mojave on a 2008 Mac Pro with an NVidia GTX680 over DVI-to-HDMI /wire ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ colorsync-users mailing list colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com https://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users ------------------------------ End of colorsync-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 27 ***********************************************

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iPhone screen captures
by graxx＠videotron.ca 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

Is it possible that iPhone's screen captures are in 16-bit/channel RGB? / Roger

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RE: colorsync-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 27
by graxx＠videotron.ca 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

Andrew wrote : > ... and you can kind of extract them if you know where to look, but very low resolution so not too useful and no substitute for the originals. I agree, not especially useful especially when the eciRGB originals are 735dpi, if memory serves. / Roger

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RE: BVDM Roman16 Reference Images
by graxx＠videotron.ca 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

Did they ever updated the printed copy that comes with the images (on DVD)? I remember buying the first edition (not cheap) and they told me, then, not to trust the printed copy for "correct" ISO coated appearances? That the next edition would fix that problem? / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Martin Orpen via colorsync-users Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 4:07 AM To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: BVDM Roman16 Reference Images > On 13 Jan 2020, at 08:23, Axel Robert via colorsync-users <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> wrote: > > IMHO, they are copyrighted, in Europe at least, while they are BVDM > Roman16 part of it: > https://www.bvdm-online.de/themen/technik-forschung/standardwerke/roma > n16/ausfuehrliche-beschreibung/ They are more than six and are indeed > very useful not only for display but for the entire production. [Subject line changed] The Roman16 images are very useful. And members of recognised trade organisations, like the BPIF in the UK, can get them at a 50% discount from the BVDM shop. -- Martin Orpen Idea Digital Imaging Ltd

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RE: Humans (and cameras and scanners) do not have a color gamut (?)
by graxx＠videotron.ca 13 Jan '20

13 Jan '20

I'm glad the ICC exists, Wire. ICC profiling may not be bullet proof but it's a set of tools that's better than no tools at all, to deal with the complexity of "color" 😊 / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Wire ~ via colorsync-users Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 6:13 PM To: 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com> Subject: Re: Humans (and cameras and scanners) do not have a color gamut (?) As you the original point of how many colors the human eye can see: This topic has become a big red herring. The original quandry was about the term "billions of colors" and in the context of the original post on the value of a 10 bpc data path to a display, the use of that term is completely fine. To have a basic understanding of the technology is to have no trouble with it. (omg 100 posts later in a contest over the word gamut). If you get super precise about this jargon, then the name of the ICC is absurd. Where is this so-called "color" they talk about but in the eye of the beholder? It should be the ICCC, the International Conjecture of Color Consortium because all they have is a vast approximation. The CIE doesn't suffer this because they steadfastly stand apart from the terminology of the qualia and stick to the physics. They knew what they were up against. It's commision on light—well, light the way the Swiss think about it in French, anyways... I appreciate Rodney's reading list. Thank you!

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RE: iPhone screen captures
by graxx＠videotron.ca 12 Jan '20

12 Jan '20

I was surprised when I opened a fresh screen capture from my iPhone 11 in Photoshop, to see it opening in '16-bit' mode -- why so much bit-depth when "regular photos" remain in 8-bit per channel. Yes, I saw the 'P3' embedded profile. / Roger -----Original Message----- From: colorsync-users <colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=videotron.ca(a)lists.apple.com> On Behalf Of Roger Breton via colorsync-users Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 1:00 PM To: colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com Subject: iPhone screen captures Is it possible that iPhone's screen captures are in 16-bit/channel RGB? / Roger _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. colorsync-users mailing list (colorsync-users(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/colorsync-users/graxx%40videotron.ca This email sent to graxx(a)videotron.ca

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RE: Dell UP2516D
by graxx＠videotron.ca 12 Jan '20

12 Jan '20

Wire, I took a second look at the link you sent (in the hope…) and – alas! – I could not find support for your claim that it can program the LUTs? To me, it only allows access to the front-panel controls ☹ Wire, it's impossible to take anything you say seriously… / Roger

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Gamma calibration
by graxx＠videotron.ca 12 Jan '20

12 Jan '20

Making progress on my calibration project. I have a question with regards to the merits of pure gamma calibration. The following graph shows the relationship between 8-bit input RGB numbers and measured output Luminance, from 0 to 255: https://1drv.ms/b/s!AkD78CVR1NBqktJmMSOB1tc6aOdiwg?e=5ujwEq The horizontal axis represents Input RGB numbers, from 0 to 255, as they would come out of Photoshop, and the vertical axis represent Output Luminance, as measured on the face of the monitor. There are two "curves" on this graph, a "blue" curve and a "red" curve. The blue curve represent the measured response of a Dell 17" laptop while the red curve represents a 2.2 gamma, as best as I can calculate it. Judging by the shape of the graph in the shadows, I am tempted to concluded that there is "poor separation of tones"? I would say, from 0 to 25, increasing RGB counts practically map to the same Luminance value? This "gamma calibration method" does not make sense to me. Whether 2.2 or 1.8, I don't see how the "response" could be improved at the shadows end? Which makes me wonder whether the other "popular" calibration schemes create better shadow separation? Like L* or sRGB? Worth investigating.. / Roger Breton

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