March 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Why no work on rsync?
by Rob Braun 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201) On Mar 4, 2006, at 5:18 AM, Peter Seebach wrote: I have a hard time imagining anyone but Apple ever caring about resource forks. The inconsistency with the fundamental UNIX file model is simply too great. Rob _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. "Resource forks", sure, but POSIX Extended Attributes, of which ResForks are now simply a subset, are a feature of several UNIX OSes now (and, unless you want to contrive some entirely unique metadata storage scenario, necessary for the implementation of ACLs). In Tiger, rsync simply knows about EAs and Resource Forks come along for the ride. The bigger problem is that there is no standardized POSIX (or UNIX03) API for EAs yet. FreeBSD went one way, Linux went another way, and Apple (who needed some additional parameter info) couldn't quite adopt either of the two APIs as its own and went yet another way. Windows, of course, went yet another way still with the NTFS Streams API (no surprise to anyone there). It's true there is no complete standard, but there are similarities in approach. It appears to be a sort of newtonian approximation process to find the common middle ground. Apple appears to be trying the same newtonian approximation process to a completely different function. The treatment of the resource fork as an EA just doesn't fit with Apple's or anyone else's EA model. The resource fork is like a stream that is kinda sorta treated like an EA. TAdditionally, Apple has deviated in the treatment of EA namespace and external representation of the EAs. > So, in short, in the abstract sense there is general interest in having tools like cp(1) and rsync(1) (to say nothing of the serializing archivers like tar and cpio) deal gracefully with EAs, but it looks like Apple's out on the end of the spear right now with respect to actually deploying EA-based solutions. Linux has probably had EAs support the longest (in the open source world, anyway), but it's not clear to me that they actually use them for anything yet. Redhat Enterprise Linux and Fedora have both had SELinux enabled by default for quite a while now. SELinux uses EAs and ACLs rather extensively and encountered and solved many problems along the way. There are still many problems and Apple would do well to pay attention to avoid the pitfalls they have encountered. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Why no work on rsync?
by Jordan K. Hubbard 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Why no work on rsync?
by Martin Costabel 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201) In message <1B305C63-31A8-4AF8-87A8-DA62443D5399(a)doit.wisc.edu>, Dave Schroeder writes: And have these changes been submitted back to the rsync maintainers? Or are they really not interested in this? (And I'm really genuinely curious when I ask this...) I have a hard time imagining anyone but Apple ever caring about resource forks. The inconsistency with the fundamental UNIX file model is simply too great. Not to mention, I believe the implementation uses SPI and as a result isn't even buildable out of the box (needs private Darwin headers, builds with darwinbuild fine though). There is only one private header file needed: copyfile.h <http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.4.5.ppc/Libc-391.2.5/darwin…> -- Martin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Finlay Dobbie wrote: On 3/4/06, Peter Seebach <seebs(a)plethora.net> wrote: With this dropped in, you just say "make" in the source directory and it builds. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Why no work on rsync?
by Finlay Dobbie 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=l5WX4PFDDEbZkxvZ2ON9+xONGUM7kXE8eEFn1hUUydZFQlRt5RqhvxAJxNaAo1FXtJV+rFNg79pVcD2k4VsWtjDK7Zqfun53IEoNATxU2Lnv+dDR2+zILm/t74IXCiO94D6vjguyWpWbN3cK4gQTSB4dGilEkx790h0dfvTG918= On 3/4/06, Peter Seebach <seebs(a)plethora.net> wrote: > In message <1B305C63-31A8-4AF8-87A8-DA62443D5399(a)doit.wisc.edu>, Dave Schroeder > writes: > >And have these changes been submitted back to the rsync maintainers? > >Or are they really not interested in this? (And I'm really genuinely > >curious when I ask this...) > > I have a hard time imagining anyone but Apple ever caring about resource > forks. The inconsistency with the fundamental UNIX file model is simply > too great. Not to mention, I believe the implementation uses SPI and as a result isn't even buildable out of the box (needs private Darwin headers, builds with darwinbuild fine though). -- Finlay _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Are there bugs in gnutar when using -N with -X?
by Robert Nicholson 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com This one is a little confusing to me So what I don't understand is why this has the correct semantics when gnuxpat2 contains nothing. but lets say I put in .Spotlight-V100 as the very first line Now when I have that as the first line and I execute the following. Doesn't make sense to me. ./ ._.DS_Store .DS_Store ._.hidden ._.hotfiles.btree ._.RegisterApplications.ted.tbu ._.TemporaryItems .TemporaryItems/ .TemporaryItems/folders.0/ .TemporaryItems/folders.0/TemporaryItems/ ._.Trashes .Trashes/ .Trashes/._501 .Trashes/501/ .vol/ .vol/234881026/ .vol/234881036/ Applications/ Here's what I mean. annie:/tmp robert$ cat bla */*.txt so .txt files should be excluded annie:/tmp robert$ ls -al /tmp/now -rw-r--r-- 1 robert wheel 0 Mar 4 21:24 /tmp/now annie:/tmp robert$ ls -al /tmp/test total 0 drwxr-xr-x 8 robert wheel 272 Mar 4 21:46 . drwxrwxrwt 418 root wheel 14212 Mar 4 23:05 .. -rw-r--r-- 1 robert wheel 0 Mar 4 21:24 1 -rw-r--r-- 1 robert wheel 0 Mar 4 21:24 2 -rw-r--r-- 1 robert wheel 0 Mar 4 21:24 3 -rw-r--r-- 1 robert wheel 0 Mar 4 21:24 4 -rw-r--r-- 1 robert wheel 0 Mar 4 21:24 5 drwxr-xr-x 2 robert wheel 68 Mar 4 21:46 6.txt gnutar cvf test1.tar -N /tmp/now -X /tmp/bla test test/ test/4 test/5 So it all works when you break it down into a simple example like this. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… /usr/bin/gnutar -cvf /Volumes/External/BRUBackups/annie/ backup-20060304-3.tar --show-omitted-dirs -X /usr/local/bruconfig/ gnuxpat2 -N /var/backup/BACKUP-0 / /usr/bin/gnutar -cvf /Volumes/External/BRUBackups/annie/ backup-20060304-3.tar --show-omitted-dirs -X /usr/local/bruconfig/ gnuxpat2 -N /var/backup/BACKUP-0 / it will no longer be an "incremental backup" but it will be a full backup. Note: the exclusion is obeyed. ie. not Spotlight-V100 folder but it's adding stuff in the tar that has a mtime longer before the mtime of the BACKUP-0 file. Strangely enough when I break this down to simple trivial example everything works as expected. these are the two files that were created after the file /tmp/now was created and notice the 6.txt was correctly excluded. annie:/usr/local/bruconfig robert$ gnutar --version tar (GNU tar) 1.14 Copyright (C) 2004 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This program comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. You may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public License; see the file named COPYING for details. Written by John Gilmore and Jay Fenlason. Modified to support extended attributes. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Why no work on rsync?
by seebs＠plethora.net 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com In message <1B305C63-31A8-4AF8-87A8-DA62443D5399(a)doit.wisc.edu>, Dave Schroeder writes: >And have these changes been submitted back to the rsync maintainers? >Or are they really not interested in this? (And I'm really genuinely >curious when I ask this...) I have a hard time imagining anyone but Apple ever caring about resource forks. The inconsistency with the fundamental UNIX file model is simply too great. -s _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Why no work on rsync?
by Dave Schroeder 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Mar 4, 2006, at 1:23 AM, Martin Costabel wrote: - Dave _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com John Davidorff Pell wrote: Just out of curiosity, is Apple's rsync so divergent from upstream that this type of bug could be introduced? or do you think it was just a poor accident of deleting a line unintentionally? It's in a part that was added for copying resource forks. And have these changes been submitted back to the rsync maintainers? Or are they really not interested in this? (And I'm really genuinely curious when I ask this...) smime.p7s

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Re: Why no work on rsync?
by Martin Costabel 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Macintosh/20051201) It's in a part that was added for copying resource forks. -- Martin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… John Davidorff Pell wrote: Just out of curiosity, is Apple's rsync so divergent from upstream that this type of bug could be introduced? or do you think it was just a poor accident of deleting a line unintentionally? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Why no work on rsync?
by John Davidorff Pell 04 Mar '06

04 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks, JP On 3 Mar 2006, at 13:02, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: - Jordan On Mar 3, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Martin Costabel wrote: Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: [] Thank you. Looking at the diff with rsync-20, the bug jumps out immediately: -- Martin _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Just out of curiosity, is Apple's rsync so divergent from upstream that this type of bug could be introduced? or do you think it was just a poor accident of deleting a line unintentionally? Yep. We found the bug almost immediately too. Now we just need to work out how to best get the fix into people's hands. As simple a process as this may seem to people outside ("Just release a tarball! Re-roll the update!"), there's a lot more involved. We're working on it. http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/tarballs/other/ rsync-23.tar.gz In rsync/syscall.c, the function do_unlink() has no return value if the file name doesn't begin with "._". This is confirmed by the behavior of rsync: Files starting with "._" are deleted with no error, others give the error. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/jpell.lists% 40mac.com This email sent to jpell.lists(a)mac.com -- ``Around 1,500 spectators turned up,... lured by the novel combination of death, an elephant and electricity. Mercifully, Topsy died extremely quickly, and without a trumpet, which may have had something to do with the carrots laced with cyanide that she had been fed.'' (from The Economist) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Universal binaries and X11
by Brian Bechtel 03 Mar '06

03 Mar '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=KuhBocssrFJSoKtrQ8K9CcBwKsLN65CLm8xUorVl7UCKoBsOojjKX7bc0+tSh892abRXdTrvv+cnhXNH0y4U3iQpj0nWKUmwh6ZrpXpY7aEFlquZHwMA6+u/iRxTfJ423VMZHRtMGOgXm1GxS+0nnWpkuw9bjzeQWZwCb2a2Ras= On 3/3/06, David Leimbach <leimy2k(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Any userspace binary can be universal in my experience. I'm not sure > about kernel extensions but then I never looked. Kernel extensions can be universal as well. <http://developer.apple.com/transition> for much documentation _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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