June 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Software and IPv6
by Ragnar Sundblad 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 8 jun 2006, at 03.45, André-John Mas wrote: Absolutely, and of course it should work! Please file a bug at <https://bugreport.apple.com> or those issues will be there even longer. Very good! /ragge _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I'd rather not have to deal with having to enter an IPv6 'numeric' address, but I would also like proper support for cases where it is a last hope option. At the moment it is an easy test to see how well a program supports IPv6, since if I provide a hostname chances are the IPv4 address will be used. Done, issue is now 4578058. As you noticed, most things do work, and they are used. For example many services used with Bonjour prefer ipv6 when available, like afp mounting between two machines on the local network, which means that ipv6 is used daily by many (without them knowing (or caring)). I haven't really payed attention to what Bonjour is doing behind the scenes, but using Bonjour Browser (http://www.tildesoft.com) I can confirm this. Yes. You can also check with netstat -na when you have e.g. an afp volume mounted, and probably in several other ways. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Software and IPv6
by Ragnar Sundblad 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 7 jun 2006, at 18.51, Michael Bartosh wrote: On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:29 AM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote: Well, I think it is very uncommon to turn it off, and those machines still work for people. I'd recommend not to turn it off. Maybe your turning it off is why you fell that it doesn't work? It does, just use it and hope to forget about it. You have had problem(s) (with AuthAuthority), and I fully understand that you therefore have decided to turn it off when you don't have any explicit need for it. Very good, keep it up! /ragge _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… When you deploy to 10,000 desktops, fringe cases tend to pop up. So we are exceedingly conservative. In the IT environments I work we attempt to minimize costs. This is the best way to ensure the Mac has a competitive advantage in those environments. We do that by minimizing unknowns. As I've illustrated, and as André has illustrated, there are unknowns associated with IPv6 deployment. I wonder if we ever will get to a point where there will not be unknowns, or at least things to learn for IT staff, with ipv6, or anything else for that matter. André's question indicated an interest for deploying v6, or at least trying it out, but also a lot of doubt. In my experience, that doubt is not really called for anymore, and that is what I wanted to tell. (But, of course, YMMV.) Again, many people successfully use ipv6 because they need to (because of the small the v4 address space), a lot of stuff does without the user knowing, and many new things come with ipv6 enabled, and they are still on the market. I don't think it deserves to be compared to the Y2K problem in any other sense than that many people have taken the measurements that they should, and things in general just work. That doesn't make much sense. What I mean is that those things that don't tend to bring you problems you normally leave alone, not the least for not entering the world of unknowns because of non standard setup. I believe you can do that with ipv6 too. We enable (or rather, don't disable) ipv6 on all new machines we deploy of all OS kinds we use, and have very little problem with it. On Jun 7, 2006, at 7:16 AM, johnsmailinglists(a)mac.com wrote: This is what helps to make sure that it is more trouble in the future. Keep up the good work. If Macs are too much trouble, there won't be a future for these customers. Reporting bugs (which I do a lot of) helps to ensure that this doesn't occur in the future. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Getting back on track [was Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin]
by Gary 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Tivo and Linksys release source code -- Tivo even releases all their Linux kernel modifications. This is largely due to the GPL but they still don't release enough source to allow one to build a working Tivo or Linksys product. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Getting back on track [was Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin]
by Dave Schroeder 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jun 8, 2006, at 4:14 PM, Ernesto Corvi wrote: According to ... http://developer.apple.com/opensource/overview.html we read ... Yes, and that's still accurate. Darwin is, and always has been, two different things: Honestly, this entire charade is really disappointing. - Dave _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com I'd like to start a technical discussion on the Darwin kernel for Intel processors, but I guess that will have to wait... "Darwin is the open source UNIX-based foundation of Mac OS X" Apple's open source strategy (including individual components, projects, and tools, and the mechanisms for distributing them), and an (sometimes standalone bootable) OS. Even in the context of Mac OS X (Intel), "Darwin" still represents the open source, UNIX-based foundation of Mac OS X. Not everything is open source. Currently, one of those things is xnu (the kernel). Everything else that has previously been released as open source under the GPL or APSL (or other) licenses is still available. "Apple has made open source and standards a key part of its strategy..." But Darwin isn't open source anymore. Yes, "Darwin", technically, still is open source, since Darwin is a strategy that represented the act of open sourcing many key components of the OS. That is still true. You can't compile your own version of Darwin for Intel anymore. ...and? Does that make any of the other open source pieces, which make up "Darwin", any less useful (unless your only purpose is to build a bootable OS)? Maybe the web page needs updating to reflect the reality of the situation? Maybe put an asterisk next to open source? Why? Since when does "open source" == "must be able to be a bootable, standalone, binary OS distribution"? Ernesto. (Please note that I am 100% in favor of Apple communicating its long term plans on Darwin, both as a strategy and an OS, and plans with respect to the kernel, etc., but I believe Apple has already stated clearly what its position is, and that is that no permanent decisions have been made yet, and that, for now, the source for xnu is unavailable on Intel. It would stand to reason that Apple may clarify or expand upon its position at a worldwide developer conference of some type that might be coming up in a little over a month...) smime.p7s

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Re: Getting back on track [was Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin]
by Ernesto Corvi 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Getting back on track [was Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin]
by Jordan K. Hubbard 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by Dave Schroeder 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jun 8, 2006, at 2:37 PM, proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org wrote: The only time that I ever use proprietary software is when I am trying to help other users learn open source and/or free software. http://www.apple.com/science/profiles/cornell/ — Dr. Michael Love _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com A storm is coming. It is coming for you emperor. 'In the past, Dr. Love conducted much of his protein crystallography research on UNIX workstations because of their parallel processing abilities. At the same time, he has always preferred the elegance and ease of use of the Macintosh. With the availability of Mac OS X, Dr. Love can harness the power of UNIX and the intuitiveness of the Macintosh on one platform. "I’m a longtime Mac user and also somewhat of a UNIX aficionado," says Dr. Love. "With the availability of Mac OS X, I can do everything on my preferred computer — the Mac."' smime.p7s

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by Shawn Erickson 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Ivc9bDth1G9JeuGPpOC0fYDUcAHGbuMYoqleSeBirP1cz7S42OpNKqTs2ZzwlPsppwOb31iarr39MWzLBuFrDyNAqbCgUgtYHUQwZJIIbgDxTQxZTUd1JpyJBc7aOlspbYqNtGmzluy68friGPwdPcS3FqCb32/NP9HYHE5JtVc= On 6/8/06, proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org <proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org> wrote: As a free OS Darwin is a political OS. We are trying to keep it free. We are developers too. This is not the forum for it. Please refrain from further discussion in this vein on this list. -Shawn _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 8 Jun, Shawn Erickson wrote: > On 6/8/06, proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org <proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org> wrote: > >> A storm is coming. It is coming for you emperor. > > Please keep your "politics" off the darwin-dev list, this is a list > for technical discussions. > > -Shawn As a free OS Darwin is a political OS. We are trying to keep it free. We are developers too. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpqmwPOuvQYb.pgp

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by Shawn Erickson 08 Jun '06

08 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=UDl6JNcsOhyvGQhBxyxpiqh2j+1XpwnfruEDHBbIYacNSR6RvPrsDmio71PtlXnky51sMYgc6oRfWSofxgza6lSvvrWZpH32gH8g7cyYEps5W3KoU0jG0U4RCrvNtwh/jX1/Hs3O/5Kiwe+6g7bbAlloKiAhm46kE7d/JqA4qsU= On 6/8/06, proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org <proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org> wrote: Please keep your "politics" off the darwin-dev list, this is a list for technical discussions. -Shawn _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… A storm is coming. It is coming for you emperor. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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