June 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: missing code in Darwin
by Ernest Prabhakar 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi Rob, Hi all, In general, we prefer to release all our drivers as open source. However, in some cases -- such as this one -- there are intellectual property issues that preclude that. We regret the inconvenience. Does this response apply to the ACPI driver, to the xnu/x86 kernel, to another driver, or all of the above? Just wondering what this official response is regarding. This is regarding the driver situation. Also, thanks proclus for prodding enough to (finally) get Apple to communicate with the community. -- Ernie P. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On Jun 6, 2006, at 3:18 PM, Rob Braun wrote: On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 03:02:50PM -0700, Ernest Prabhakar wrote: Actually, I'd much rather he follow your example of composing a well- written post that sparks discussion, instead of cross-posting his personal request to multiple lists. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Software and IPv6
by Ragnar Sundblad 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com (This issue should probably rather be discussed on for example ipv6-dev(a)lists.apple.com.) Hi, IPv6 seems to be today's Y2K issue: the problem seems so far away that only a handful of organisation bother spending their time dealing with the issue. I just have to answer this, since I really don't agree with that. Most major OS:es have supported it for a long time, and for a while even the big network equipment makers have support for it (outside of e.g. Japan, where the local network equipment makers have supported it for quite a while now, since several parts of the world outside US and the Western Europe need ipv6 and use it). I notice much in the way of software seems still to be IPv4 centric, even the new ones. I can't think of anything on Mac OS X, and therefore I assume in Darwin, that is not ipv6 savvy. Much open source software works quite well too. Are you talking about other vendors' software? In that case, sure, there is plenty. If you need ipv6 support in it, do yourself and the world a favor and tell their customer relations! :-) Other than QA, are there any development issues that would prevent people from making their software IPv6 ready? Well, since there are so many programs out there that work perfectly well with ipv6, it is hard to think of any real show stoppers. Are the code snippets available from Apple or elsewhere that show developers how to make hybrid IPv4/IPv6 software? Don't know, but there should be plenty on the web for the POSIX interfaces, and also the open source software from Apple/Darwin. For the higher level Apple specific interfaces, the format of those headers and addresses shouldn't matter, and any code snippets should be for any protocol. Also, what solutions are there to making IPv4 software work on an IPv6 centric LAN? I am thinking dual addresses or tunnels are probably the way to go, but I just want a second opinion. Of you are thinking about those v4<->v6 gateway ideas, they seem to have pretty much vanished now, and IMHO that is good and well. Of course, there still is 6to4 (run v6 with v4 as carrier), and most level4-and-up services as mail gateways, DNS servers, http proxies and similar services will just mix and match v4 and v6 (and possibly other protocols), and that is in many situations as much of a v4<->v6 gateway as you both need and want. /ragge _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 6 Mon, 5 Jun 2006 23:06:32 -0400, Andr?-John Mas <ajmas(a)sympatico.ca> wrote: I don't know what you mean with "dual addresses", but "dual stack", or as you may call it, ipv4 and 6 in parallel, on those hosts that supports it, is a very common way to go. Just let the v4 only stuff stay v4 only and phase it out sooner or later. If your routers doesn't route (or bridge) ipv4, v4 won't traverse routers, and if you want it routed (or bridged) anyway you will have to set up routers (or bridges), with or without tunnels depending on the situation. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: missing code in Darwin
by Rob Braun 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Mutt/1.4.1i On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 03:02:50PM -0700, Ernest Prabhakar wrote: > Hi all, > > In general, we prefer to release all our drivers as open source. > However, in some cases -- such as this one -- there are intellectual > property issues that preclude that. We regret the inconvenience. Does this response apply to the ACPI driver, to the xnu/x86 kernel, to another driver, or all of the above? Just wondering what this official response is regarding. Also, thanks proclus for prodding enough to (finally) get Apple to communicate with the community. Rob _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: missing code in Darwin
by Ernest Prabhakar 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi all, http://developer.apple.com/bugreporter/ http://developer.apple.com/contact/ Sincerely, The Darwin Team _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… In general, we prefer to release all our drivers as open source. However, in some cases -- such as this one -- there are intellectual property issues that preclude that. We regret the inconvenience. Also, as a matter of list etiquette, queries directed solely at Apple should be submitted as bug reports: This both helps us ensure a prompt response, and avoids cluttering the mailboxes of other subscribers. If you have questions about the status of such a bug, feel free to contact ADC directly to escalate your concerns: This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Mailing list etiquette [was Re: Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2]
by Jordan K. Hubbard 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 6 Jun, Justin C. Walker wrote: > The measures you are referring to involve discussing the problem with > Apple. I agree that people should take this up with Apple. > > If you are unhappy that XNU has not been released, I would encourage > > you to spread your dissatisfaction to other forums, so that Apple will > > take notice and commit to a workable free and open Darwin OS from now > > on. This is not the time to quibble about netiquette. > > This is not a quibble. Please don't spam these lists with your > dissatisfaction. Take it to a forum that is designed for speculation > and complaining. I agree that there is no quibble involved. It is obvious that their are things fair more important than mere courtesy, although I agree that it is almost always the best course. However, don't you really find the exceptions most interesting? ;-} Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpqPvP0Lnh47.pgp

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Re: Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2
by Justin C. Walker 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jun 6, 2006, at 11:52 , proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org wrote: Why are you asking here? You're not likely to get any response from Apple and no one else can change anything. If you need something from Apple, file a bug report asking for it. Actually, where besides the Darwin Developers list would one suggest changes to Darwin? Apple is not the sole arbeiter. If you are unhappy that XNU has not been released, I would encourage you to spread your dissatisfaction to other forums, so that Apple will take notice and commit to a workable free and open Darwin OS from now on. This is not the time to quibble about netiquette. Regards, Justin -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large Institute for the Enhancement of the Director's Income -------- When LuteFisk is outlawed, Only outlaws will have LuteFisk -------- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 5 Jun, Steve Checkoway wrote: Perhaps another FOSS Darwin driver already exists which would be suitable to these stated needs. Alternative suggestions are welcome, but they should be free and open source, obviously. There are lots of arbeiters, but Apple really is the sole arbiter for the discussion of which of their source makes it to the Darwin repository, and with what timing. Also, people have already asked you to stop cross posting. Please stop. There is an obvious exception to this courtesy, and these posts are a shining example of it. After repeated attempts by many FOSS developers to get this situation remedied, nothing has happened. It is now time for us to better use all the measures at our disposal in order to assure that Darwin OS remains free and open. The measures you are referring to involve discussing the problem with Apple. This is not a quibble. Please don't spam these lists with your dissatisfaction. Take it to a forum that is designed for speculation and complaining. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 5 Jun, Steve Checkoway wrote: > Why are you asking here? You're not likely to get any response from > Apple and no one else can change anything. If you need something from > Apple, file a bug report asking for it. >> Perhaps another FOSS Darwin driver already exists which would be >> suitable to these stated needs. Alternative suggestions are welcome, but >> they should be free and open source, obviously. Actually, where besides the Darwin Developers list would one suggest changes to Darwin? Apple is not the sole arbeiter. > Asking if such a driver exists is a better use of this list than asking > the list to release source code for a driver, something most of us > obviously cannot do. It is also obvious that some people on this list do have an impact on such decisions. It is more than a few. > Also, people have already asked you to stop cross posting. Please stop. There is an obvious exception to this courtesy, and these posts are a shining example of it. After repeated attempts by many FOSS developers to get this situation remedied, nothing has happened. It is now time for us to better use all the measures at our disposal in order to assure that Darwin OS remains free and open. If you are unhappy that XNU has not been released, I would encourage you to spread your dissatisfaction to other forums, so that Apple will take notice and commit to a workable free and open Darwin OS from now on. This is not the time to quibble about netiquette. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpYrx0bQA24I.pgp

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Software and IPv6
by André-John Mas 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi, Also, what solutions are there to making IPv4 software work on an IPv6 centric LAN? I am thinking dual addresses or tunnels are probably the way to go, but I just want a second opinion. Andre _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… IPv6 seems to be today's Y2K issue: the problem seems so far away that only a handful of organisation bother spending their time dealing with the issue. I notice much in the way of software seems still to be IPv4 centric, even the new ones. Other than QA, are there any development issues that would prevent people from making their software IPv6 ready? Are the code snippets available from Apple or elsewhere that show developers how to make hybrid IPv4/IPv6 software? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2
by Steve Checkoway 06 Jun '06

06 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 (X11/20060516) Also, people have already asked you to stop cross posting. Please stop. -- Steve Checkoway _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org wrote: While I'm helping with the process of asking for drivers to be released, I would also suggest that the source code for the AppleRTL8169Ethernet gigabit ethernet driver also be released under the terms of a free software agreement such as APSL (especially x86). In this way Darwin-only, open-only developers could have cheap access to gigabit-level transfer speeds, which are are currently not available to them. This would be very helpful for OS testing, backup, and software deployment among other things. Moreover it would be a boon to the usership in general as an excellent example of releasing a Darwin version of a driver which is already free and open source on many other platforms. Why are you asking here? You're not likely to get any response from Apple and no one else can change anything. If you need something from Apple, file a bug report asking for it. Perhaps another FOSS Darwin driver already exists which would be suitable to these stated needs. Alternative suggestions are welcome, but they should be free and open source, obviously. Asking if such a driver exists is a better use of this list than asking the list to release source code for a driver, something most of us obviously cannot do. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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