June 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: StartupItems
by John Fieber 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jun 4, 2006, at 12:22 PM, Peter Seebach wrote: -john _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Jun 4 12:06:18 localhost launchd: localhost.script_name: getpwnam ("kodak") failed Jun 4 12:06:18 localhost launchd: localhost.script_name: exited with exit code: 1 Jun 4 12:06:18 localhost launchd: localhost.script_name: 9 more failures without living at least 60 seconds will cause job removal Does the user exist? Why, yes. This is not only a user on the system, but the user that gets automatically logged in once the system is booted. So what happens? Launchd tries to launch this before the netinfo stuff is all up, and ends up yanking it from the job list, not because the script or daemon is problematic... But because the UserName key isn't viable yet. Dependencies on directory services are problematic for all the launching methods in OSX because directory services being launched and "available" does not mean the configured data sources are available. Launchd may be failing particularly badly here, but StartupItems can too. This personally bit me with LDAP defined automounts. I eventually wrote a directory services blocker which would stall the automount daemon launch until all the sources defined in directory search were online. (Automount is *supposed* to notice when the network configuration changes, but that proved unreliable.) But is blocking until all directory service search paths are available actually the correct thing to do? Hard to say. What if one of the paths is mirror of another and it being online is purely optional and possibly not even common? What if a dependent service needs information from one path, but doesn't care about another, should it be blocked until both are available? Should the dependent dig deeper into the directory service configuration to determine which search paths have the information needed mapped? So whatever your startup method of choice is, directory services needs some finer resolution dependency targets to work well. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: StartupItems
by seebs＠plethora.net 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com In message <55267361-1F7D-437E-82C3-BE7141769224(a)mac.com>, johnsmailinglists@ma c.com writes: >Well, if the service that listens on 1234 wasn't ready... then your >service would block. How does this result in your service seeing >"sorry, no such service? Except that sometimes, instead of blocking, you get a connection refused. For instance, as a concrete example, a friend's mini will fail to start a certain job unless you have autologin on. If autologin is off, launchd tries to launch the job, which has a UserName key, before NetInfo is properly up, and FAILS. The job gets cancelled because it can't be started, because the user doesn't exist yet. (I assume it's a race condition.) -s _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 4 Jun, Kevin Van Vechten wrote: > I can confirm that no source code for AppleACPIPlatform is or ever > has been available. AppleACPIPlatform is not unique in this regard, > and there are many other examples of binary-only drivers for Darwin. The AppleACPIPlatform driver is unique in that it replaced working code, which is required for the operating system to boot. This is no mere peripheral hardware driver. In order to have a free and open source operating system, it is required that the kernel and necessary drivers be released under a FOSS agreement, such as APSL. We have a substantial amount of investment in a system which may or may not be free according to public announcements. We need a real commitment from Apple. Is Darwin OS "open source", or is it not? If not, then our risk has failed. I am sorry to hear that you perceived the environment as incendiary. Let me assure you that I believe that Apple will free the sources in due course, but it is taking too long. They would get further with the developer community if they mitigated the risk of the developer community. The best way to do that is to make Darwin a free and open source OS, fully and completely, and to make it explicitly permanent that it will remain such. It is arguable that that is one intention of the APSL agreement to which we are a party. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpMjtteBkfF7.pgp

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Re: Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2
by Kevin Van Vechten 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com - Kevin -- Kevin Van Vechten Apple Computer, Inc. On Jun 4, 2006, at 4:28 PM, proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org wrote: That is obviously debatable. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ - Kevin -- Kevin Van Vechten Apple Computer, Inc. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I can confirm that no source code for AppleACPIPlatform is or ever has been available. AppleACPIPlatform is not unique in this regard, and there are many other examples of binary-only drivers for Darwin. There's no objection to technical discussion of this fact, but posts on this thread were becoming increasingly incendiary. As list administrator I chose to close this thread, and that is not debatable. On 4 Jun, Kevin Van Vechten wrote: It does not seem anything productive can result from following this discussion. This thread is closed. Please refrain from further posts. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: StartupItems
by johnsmailinglists＠mac.com 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jun 3, 2006, at 7:25 PM, Peter Seebach wrote: Let's say that you're launching something that requires a service on port 1234. In the launchd world, you connect to port 1234. That's your service availability check - either you get a connection refusal in which case your depended service is not installed and you can abort right now with an error, or you will block until the service is brought up by launchd, which will have noticed you looking for it. JP -- Blood is thicker than water... and much tastier. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… And here's the problem. In some cases, what happens is I get a refusal, because launchd launched my program BEFORE SOMETHING ELSE WAS READY. So, I get told "sorry, no such service", and there's no way for me to find out "... but there will be in 18 seconds" without writing new code. (Actually, the Mac doesn't load launchd.plist files until it's done doing the actual startup work, which is done in rc and StartupItems. But if we were in the launchd world, this is what WOULD happen.) Well, if the service that listens on 1234 wasn't ready... then your service would block. How does this result in your service seeing "sorry, no such service? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: StartupItems
by johnsmailinglists＠mac.com 05 Jun '06

05 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com changed. If one wishes to run legacy programs unmodified, then one should use StartupItems. Will legacy programs be supported indefinitely? JP _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On Jun 2, 2006, at 11:22 AM, Andrew Gallatin wrote: Dave Zarzycki writes: Will StartupItems be supported indefinitely? -- "Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." - A.B. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com plumber Idraulico wrote: > i share this because it's memorable > such stupidity ... clap clap Felix Kronlage Your Fired! Just kidding. As everyone know, you cannot fire FOSS developers ;-}. I have to give Plum a good talking to though, and maybe a salary. Communication is good. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgptFy02m0z5O.pgp

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Re2: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin2
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com That is obviously debatable. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ On 4 Jun, Kevin Van Vechten wrote: > It does not seem anything productive can result from following this > discussion. This thread is closed. Please refrain from further posts. > > - Kevin > > -- > Kevin Van Vechten > Apple Computer, Inc. > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/proclus%40gnu-darwin.org > > This email sent to proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpCmsrh6zmoi.pgp

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by Kevin Van Vechten 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com - Kevin -- Kevin Van Vechten Apple Computer, Inc. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… It does not seem anything productive can result from following this discussion. This thread is closed. Please refrain from further posts. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by plumber Idraulico 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com i share this because it's memorable such stupidity ... clap clap Felix Kronlage it's crazy to have comments from someone who have never build darwin and run really it on different hardwares... who are you? comments from someone who is not able to use IOKKit or the coreFoundation correctly a gem ( Apple doc is complete about that ) and who urinates of a disgusting code ... Sorry for vulgarity , but there are limits ... -- Plum On 4 Jun, Felix Kronlage wrote: In fact Darwin is a free and open source operating system. free and open yes. usable without the binary drivers? no. Actually it is a fact. GNU-Darwin does not distribute proprietary software, and that includes the OS. In fact, we have a bounty program against such. We distribute a Darwin OS installer disk which installs nothing but free software. The proprietary drivers have been stripped out. It boots, and it is operable. You should have a look at our offerings. http://www.gnu-darwin.org/index.php?page=order I myself use a versions of Darwin-7.0 and 7.2 which have been stripped of proprietary binaries. They work just fine, but Darwin-7 not suitably stable for distribution to end users. Darwin-8.0 and 8.3 are a free and open source OS, and they work fine without the proprietary drivers, with one exception. That is the meaning of the screenshots and the purpose of these postings, to free the AppleACPIPlatform driver (and to keep xnu free as well of course). Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… darwin does not have any significant scene behind it. sorry, but I experienced that over 2 1/2 years quite well and it is time that you accept that as well. Don't come me with 'judging from our sales and web site traffic' statements. Web-site traffic does not proof shit and nobody besides you knows about the 'sales'. And I am sorry to say, but I hardly believe any sane person wastes money on the stuff you sell. I am sorry to hear that you have diminished your expectations, and we have come to expect fine contributions from you in the Darwin community. It is sad to hear that so many people are discouraged, when Apple has done so much to maintain a free and open source operating system. I am confident that Apple will continue to do so. They have every reason in the world to continue with our community, and we are all the benefactors. Come and join with us, and your efforts will be well spent. felix This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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