June 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: [Gnu-darwin-distribution] GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 4 Jun, Felix Kronlage wrote: > On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 02:05:04PM -0400, proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org wrote: > >> In fact Darwin is a free and open source operating system. > > free and open yes. usable without the binary drivers? no. Actually it is a fact. GNU-Darwin does not distribute proprietary software, and that includes the OS. In fact, we have a bounty program against such. We distribute a Darwin OS installer disk which installs nothing but free software. The proprietary drivers have been stripped out. It boots, and it is operable. You should have a look at our offerings. http://www.gnu-darwin.org/index.php?page=order I myself use a versions of Darwin-7.0 and 7.2 which have been stripped of proprietary binaries. They work just fine, but Darwin-7 not suitably stable for distribution to end users. Darwin-8.0 and 8.3 are a free and open source OS, and they work fine without the proprietary drivers, with one exception. That is the meaning of the screenshots and the purpose of these postings, to free the AppleACPIPlatform driver (and to keep xnu free as well of course). > darwin does not have any significant scene behind it. sorry, but I > experienced that over 2 1/2 years quite well and it is time that you > accept that as well. Don't come me with 'judging from our sales and > web site traffic' statements. Web-site traffic does not proof shit and > nobody besides you knows about the 'sales'. And I am sorry to say, but > I hardly believe any sane person wastes money on the stuff you sell. I am sorry to hear that you have diminished your expectations, and we have come to expect fine contributions from you in the Darwin community. It is sad to hear that so many people are discouraged, when Apple has done so much to maintain a free and open source operating system. I am confident that Apple will continue to do so. They have every reason in the world to continue with our community, and we are all the benefactors. Come and join with us, and your efforts will be well spent. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > felix -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgp4R7ST9Yom0.pgp

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Re: Fwd: StartupItems
by seebs＠plethora.net 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hmm. Well, maybe someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong with launchd. <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <!DOCTYPE plist PUBLIC "-//Apple Computer//DTD PLIST 1.0//EN" "http://www.apple.com/DTDs/PropertyList-1.0.dtd"> <plist version="1.0"> <dict> <key>Label</key> <string>localhost.script_name</string> <key>UserName</key> <string>kodak</string> <key>ProgramArguments</key> <array> <string>/path/to/program</string> </array> <key>RunAtLoad</key> <true/> </dict> </plist> This launchd item, placed in /Library/LaunchDaemons, never gets run. Why? Jun 4 12:06:18 localhost launchd: localhost.script_name: getpwnam("kodak") failed Jun 4 12:06:18 localhost launchd: localhost.script_name: exited with exit code: 1 Jun 4 12:06:18 localhost launchd: localhost.script_name: 9 more failures without living at least 60 seconds will cause job removal Does the user exist? Why, yes. This is not only a user on the system, but the user that gets automatically logged in once the system is booted. So what happens? Launchd tries to launch this before the netinfo stuff is all up, and ends up yanking it from the job list, not because the script or daemon is problematic... But because the UserName key isn't viable yet. It doesn't matter what's in the ProgramArguments, because the program never gets to being spawned, because the UserName doesn't work. Doesn't this mean launchd ought to, hmm. Maybe check for availability of NetInfo before trying to spawn a job, then killing it for lack of resources? If "don't just suicide when your resources aren't available" is such good advice for programs in a launchd world, why doesn't launchd follow it? -s _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 4 Jun, Finlay Dobbie wrote: > Again, please stop spamming this across multiple lists. People have > already told you that they find this behaviour annoying. In what way is this spam? It is topical and obviously interesting to several people on this list. Moreover, I think that it is crucial to get the word out to the Darwin developer community about this important matter. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ > -- Finlay > > On 04/06/06, proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org <proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org> wrote: >> On 4 Jun, Erik Paulson wrote: >> > "Apple has not said anything as to when or if most current xnu code for x86 >> > will be available." >> >> Notably the AppleACPIPlatform driver is another piece of code that >> should be added to the list of things that Apple has not yet released. >> That is the main point of the message. >> >> Regards, >> proclus >> http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ >> >> >> -- >> Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ >> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- >> Version: 3.1 >> GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O >> M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ >> h--- r+++ y++++ >> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Darwin-documentation mailing list (Darwin-documentation(a)lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-documentation/finlay.dobbie%4… >> >> This email sent to finlay.dobbie(a)gmail.com >> >> >> -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpUjv6dq1jTO.pgp

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by Finlay Dobbie 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=e8WfDTbTT46Jiv2jIRBa8Hj34ZajMSZz1xKGWxv50RUCRSLySpRknvKtz6ojgzrFytNAPVgW2BEvqXbi9dOL3cQ4YH6e/z+PvDSX2h/1e7rZdUmA5eHLo2vZFoHk8wVR1F/VQeCiOjoueUNjcnpVNyROzsgQi7+CflirwRQ7moQ= Again, please stop spamming this across multiple lists. People have already told you that they find this behaviour annoying. -- Finlay On 4 Jun, Erik Paulson wrote: > "Apple has not said anything as to when or if most current xnu code for x86 > will be available." Notably the AppleACPIPlatform driver is another piece of code that should be added to the list of things that Apple has not yet released. That is the main point of the message. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-documentation mailing list (Darwin-documentation(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-documentation/finlay.dobbie%4… This email sent to finlay.dobbie(a)gmail.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… On 04/06/06, proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org <proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org> wrote: This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by Matthew D. Pitts 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/mpitts%40suite224.net _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… I've been silent on a lot of topics on this list, mainly because I don't have time to read them all. But I will say this; if Apple chooses not to release XNU, it will be up to us to make it work. Didn't the same thing happen back when AT&T took back the code for Unix. FreeBSD (originally BSD Unix) was the result; functionally identical to the original, but containing no "propritary" code. ----- Original Message ----- From: <proclus(a)gnu-darwin.org> To: "Erik Paulson" <epaulson(a)cs.wisc.edu> Cc: <darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com> Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 2:05 PM Subject: Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin This email sent to mpitts(a)suite224.net This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 4 Jun, Erik Paulson wrote: > "Apple has not said anything as to when or if most current xnu code for x86 > will be available." Notably the AppleACPIPlatform driver is another piece of code that should be added to the list of things that Apple has not yet released. That is the main point of the message. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpx7lm66XP3l.pgp

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 4 Jun, Erik Paulson wrote: > We > don't need to have a discussion here again about what Apple is doing, why > they are doing whatever it is that they are doing, and why Apple should or > shouldn't release the the latest xnu source and go back to the old way of > doing things and all of the wonderful things that were happening because > of the source availablity. I would definitely disagree with this. We are not asking for Apple to give away such things, but rather to maintain Darwin as a free and open source OS, which it already is. The source code for various revisions of Mac OS X Core have been open source software continuing from OS X beta, and Darwin has since become a free and open source operating system. We want it to stay that way. We think that it should stay that way, and that more needs to be done by Apple in the direction of free and open source software. Do you really want a world where launchd becomes proprietary? In fact Darwin is a free and open source operating system. If you use Darwin-7.* it free and open, subtracting the binary drivers which are largely not required. Darwin-6.6.1 is a workable free and open source OS, or else GNU-Darwin would not distribute it. We have expunged the proprietary drivers, and it works fine. Darwin-8.3 is only missing one driver in order to be a free and open source OS. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpg0gnCdAcFa.pgp

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 4 Jun, Finlay Dobbie wrote: > Personally, I'd have thought that anybody in the "Darwin community" > (which is a fairly nonexistant body these days anyway) would have been > aware of the fact that not all of the OS was open-source. In fact Darwin is a free and open source operating system. If you use Darwin-7.* it free and open, subtracting the binary drivers which are largely not required. Darwin-6.6.1 is a workable free and open source OS, or else GNU-Darwin would not distribute it. We have expunged the proprietary drivers, and it works fine. Judging from our sales and web site traffic, the Darwin community is far from dead, and we are banking on the fact that it continues to grow and wield its influence in the larger Apple community. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgpknxv06kJJ9.pgp

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by proclus＠gnu-darwin.org 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 4 Jun, Markus Hitter wrote: > Maybe this is the price for working on/with the about most innovative > OS currently available. Let's not settle for that. We are the developer community, and we already have a free and open Darwin OS. Let's keep it that way. Regards, proclus http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ -- Visit proclus realm! http://proclus.tripod.com/ -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GMU/S d+@ s: a+ C++++ UBULI++++$ P+ L+++(++++) E--- W++ N- !o K- w--- !O M++@ V-- PS+++ PE Y+ PGP-- t+++(+) 5+++ X+ R tv-(--)@ b !DI D- G e++++ h--- r+++ y++++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com pgp2UFQNPzOb2.pgp

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Re: GNU-Darwin: missing code in Darwin
by Agent M 04 Jun '06

04 Jun '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Jun 4, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Markus Hitter wrote: Am 04.06.2006 um 18:03 schrieb Erik Paulson: ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ AgentM agentm(a)themactionfaction.com ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ ¬ _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… We don't need to have a discussion here again about what Apple is doing, why they are doing whatever it is that they are doing, and why Apple should or shouldn't release the the latest xnu source and go back to the old way of doing things and all of the wonderful things that were happening because of the source availablity. Now can we go back to arguing about launchd? One might wonder what's the difference between these two discussions. Apple has proved more than once they sometimes simply "forget" their promises and sometimes simply don't care about satisfaction of their (non-paying?) developers. Same for xnu as for launchd. Maybe this is the price for working on/with the about most innovative OS currently available. The innovation will move where it has space to move. Personally, I don't like submarine features, surprises, and flighty/ambiguous "dedications" to the open-source movement. There is no coherent message on this from Apple because there are hundreds of dissenting opinions on how to handle the whole situation and no one wants to jump the gun. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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