May 2005 - Installer-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: EULA for Freeware (not GPL) recommendations?
by Adam Holt 20 May '05

20 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Yes Rajiv, this was actually my first port of call, but as per the CC FAQ it is not applicable for software: Can I use a Creative Commons license for software? CC licenses are not written for software. They should not be used for software. We strongly encourage you to use one of the very good software licenses available today. (The Free Software Foundation or the Open Source Initiative stand out as resources for such licenses.) Unlike our licenses -- which do not make mention of source or object code -- these existing licenses were designed specifically for use with software. On 19/5/05 11:10 pm, "Rajiv Sankaran" <rajiv(a)altec.org> wrote: > Have you looked at Creative Commons? > http://creativecommons.org/license/ > > --Rajiv > > -----Original Message----- > From: installer-dev-bounces+rajiv=altec.org(a)lists.apple.com > [mailto:installer-dev-bounces+rajiv=altec.org@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of > Whit Anderson > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:22 PM > To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com > Subject: Re: EULA for Freeware (not GPL) recommendations? > >> Can anybody recommend a publicly available EULA which I could use for >> distributing with my Mac application. I wish it to be Freeware but >> don't >> want others to be able to modify it (hence can't use GPL or LGPL). > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: EULA for Freeware (not GPL) recommendations?
by Adam Holt 20 May '05

20 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Thanks Whit, but does this EULA cover the Freeware case, i.e. permit re-distribution? On 19/5/05 10:21 pm, "Whit Anderson" <list(a)whitanderson.com> wrote: >> Can anybody recommend a publicly available EULA which I could use for >> distributing with my Mac application. I wish it to be Freeware but >> don't >> want others to be able to modify it (hence can't use GPL or LGPL). > > I don't know of a free EULA, but I bought Kipplinger's Home & > Business Attorney software (about $30) and found it had a bunch of > technology related documents: > > Beta Test Agreement > Confidentiality Agreement > Prepackaged Software License > Reciprocal Non-disclosure Agreement > Sale of Technology Agreement > Software Development Agreement > Software Distribution Agreement > Software License Agreement > Software Source Code Escrow Agreement > Value Added Reseller Agreement > > Not being a lawyer I can't vouch for their quality, but for me they > were a bonus that came with software I was buying for another purpose. > > --Whit _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Is setting a custom folder icon possible?
by Mike Fischer 19 May '05

19 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi Chris, I did some more testing and I now know what is happening: Am 18.05.2005 um 21:42 schrieb Christopher Ryan: For what it is worth. Yes this works for me too (I used PackageMaker unter Mac OS X 10.3.9). Sorry for the noise on this list and thanks for all the help. Mike -- Mike Fischer Softwareentwicklung, EDV-Beratung Schulung, Vertrieb Note: I read this list in digest mode! Send me a private copy for faster responses. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… I just used Package Maker (from 10.4) to make a package containing folders with custom icons. If I select "Preserve Resource Forks" in the "Contents" section of creating a package then the icons are preserved. If I do not, then they are not. I rechecked all the different .pkg files to see why the original one my friend built did set the custom icon flag on my system and my Iceberg built test.pkg files didn't. The difference is the presence of a ._<foldername> file for the folder with the custom icon. So I now have the following three cases: 1. A PackageMaker created package which includes the ._xxx file: Works correctly on 10.3.9 and 10.4.1; 2. An Iceberg created package without the ._xxx file: doesn't work anywhere; 3. An Iceberg created package which includes the ._xxx file: Works on 10.3.9 but not on 10.4.x. I was not able to create a package with the ._xxx file in Iceberg. No idea how my friend managed this. So basically it seems to boil down to bugs in Iceberg. I'll get in touch with Stéphane privately. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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RE: EULA for Freeware (not GPL) recommendations?
by Rajiv Sankaran 19 May '05

19 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: AcVcuPTBHmWzVyBNQWq0rpNLO2JfngABnnZA Have you looked at Creative Commons? http://creativecommons.org/license/ --Rajiv -----Original Message----- From: installer-dev-bounces+rajiv=altec.org(a)lists.apple.com [mailto:installer-dev-bounces+rajiv=altec.org@lists.apple.com] On Behalf Of Whit Anderson Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:22 PM To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Subject: Re: EULA for Freeware (not GPL) recommendations? > Can anybody recommend a publicly available EULA which I could use for > distributing with my Mac application. I wish it to be Freeware but > don't > want others to be able to modify it (hence can't use GPL or LGPL). I don't know of a free EULA, but I bought Kipplinger's Home & Business Attorney software (about $30) and found it had a bunch of technology related documents: Beta Test Agreement Confidentiality Agreement Prepackaged Software License Reciprocal Non-disclosure Agreement Sale of Technology Agreement Software Development Agreement Software Distribution Agreement Software License Agreement Software Source Code Escrow Agreement Value Added Reseller Agreement Not being a lawyer I can't vouch for their quality, but for me they were a bonus that came with software I was buying for another purpose. --Whit _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/rajiv%40altec.org This email sent to rajiv(a)altec.org _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: EULA for Freeware (not GPL) recommendations?
by Whit Anderson 19 May '05

19 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Beta Test Agreement Confidentiality Agreement Prepackaged Software License Reciprocal Non-disclosure Agreement Sale of Technology Agreement Software Development Agreement Software Distribution Agreement Software License Agreement Software Source Code Escrow Agreement Value Added Reseller Agreement --Whit _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Can anybody recommend a publicly available EULA which I could use for distributing with my Mac application. I wish it to be Freeware but don't want others to be able to modify it (hence can't use GPL or LGPL). I don't know of a free EULA, but I bought Kipplinger's Home & Business Attorney software (about $30) and found it had a bunch of technology related documents: Not being a lawyer I can't vouch for their quality, but for me they were a bonus that came with software I was buying for another purpose. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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EULA for Freeware (not GPL) recommendations?
by Adam Holt 19 May '05

19 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.0.0.040405 Guys, Can anybody recommend a publicly available EULA which I could use for distributing with my Mac application. I wish it to be Freeware but don't want others to be able to modify it (hence can't use GPL or LGPL). Thanks, Adam. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: iTunes 4.8 installer bug.
by Joe Ridge 18 May '05

18 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 18, 2005, at 3:18 PM, Peter Bierman wrote: -pmb At 12:04 AM -0400 5/18/05, Joe Ridge wrote: On May 14, 2005, at 5:53 PM, Peter Bierman wrote: At 1:58 AM -0400 5/14/05, Joe Ridge wrote: Why can't the iTunes group make an installer that is not broken? -pmb On May 14, 2005, at 1:58 AM, Joe Ridge wrote: Why can't the iTunes group make an installer that is not broken? _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… I'm not sure why $USER isn't set. The main place I see this come up is in the boot context. I have a startupItem that calls a perl script that calls the softwareupdate command line tool, in back ticks. I'm really not doing anything to the environment. Which I guess means that the SystemStarter is not doing anything to setup the environment for the StartupItems. In addition to $USER there is respectable number of other environmental variables that it is easy to label as common. With no clear API, I don't know which I have to code in, I just have to wait for the macs I support to break and then go debug it, and add that to the list of Variables that I have seen used, and which MIGHT be used again. Right now I'm gluing softwareupdate to SystemStarter and because none of the requirements are documented I have no leverage to get a solution that will be a long term fix. Also I am not sure why su $USER -c is even really being used. As far as I know, $USER is an exceptionally common environment variable used by all sorts of code throughout the system. As you point out, there is no documented API or environment for these scripts. Apple tests them in the environment created by the Software Update app and the Install framework. If you replace either of those components, the burden of matching the prerequisites moves to you. But all that aside, I'm left wondering why $USER isn't already set correctly in your environment. So it's not about what I can and cannot do. It's about adherence to the API. The requirement of $USER, is undocumented, and sure once I hit the bug, I can code in a bug fix to my code, but then another Apple group can make another assumption about the environment that I will have to hit debug and code in. And then it's a whole monolithic mess. Using $USER is like using part of an undocumented API, If I go and change the implementation to one that strictly adheres to the published API, and does not have the undocumented feature, then the problem is with the code that used the undocumented feature not the code that didn't implement it. Now it would be perfectly OK for the group responsible for the installer program to publish a list of environmental variable that were safe to use, and a list of environmental variables that anything that calls installer must provide. Then in my case the people responsible for softwareupdate would then have to ensure that either they ensure those variables are set or publish the environmental requirements and as requirements for softwareupdate. And if that happened, I would happily vouch safe my environment against the published requirements that I was given, by the program I was using. The preinstall and preupgrade scripts both contain a bug that prevents execution from an automated environment. They use "su ${USER} -c ...." to execute a command, but if the installer is being run through cron or as a startup item the ${USER} variable is not defined. and the su doesn't execute the command and instead becomes a shell that will never exit. Since you're creating the crontab or startup item in this case, why can't your code/script make sure that $USER is defined? And in both cases, I don't know why $USER wouldn't be defined already. 'man 5 crontab' suggests that $USER is one of the environment vars set by cron. The preinstall and preupgrade scripts both contain a bug that prevents execution from an automated environment. They use "su ${USER} -c ...." to execute a command, but if the installer is being run through cron or as a startup item the ${USER} variable is not defined. and the su doesn't execute the command and instead becomes a shell that will never exit. The worst part about this is that I reported the same exact bug with the 4.7 installer. Maybe if they aren't going to write good packages we should petition the people who write the installer to populate the environment before they hand off to the packages scripts. But I'm not bitter. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (<mailto:Installer- dev(a)lists.apple.com>Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: <http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/ridge% 40umiacs.umd.edu>http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/ installer-dev/ridge%40umiacs.umd.edu This email sent to <mailto:ridge@umiacs.umd.edu>ridge(a)umiacs.umd.edu _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/bierman% 40apple.com This email sent to bierman(a)apple.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Is setting a custom folder icon possible?
by Christopher Ryan 18 May '05

18 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com For what it is worth. If I do not, then they are not. Chris You shouldn't have to depend on dev tools to do this. Chris Hi Chris, Am 18.05.2005 um 05:37 schrieb Christopher Ryan: Mike, I would consider it a bug. Mike -- Mike Fischer Softwareentwicklung, EDV-Beratung Schulung, Vertrieb Web: <http://homepage.mac.com/mike_fischer/index.html> Note: I read this list in digest mode! Send me a private copy for faster responses. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/ryanc%40apple.com This email sent to ryanc(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… I just used Package Maker (from 10.4) to make a package containing folders with custom icons. If I select "Preserve Resource Forks" in the "Contents" section of creating a package then the icons are preserved. A lot of things changed in the Installer between 10.3.9 and 10.4, so if it worked before and does not work now, then it is an even more serious bug (regression). This shouldn't be necessary and is either 1) a missing feature in the installer or 2) a bug. Glad you see it that way and I agree. The interesting thing is that on my 10.3.9 system the custom icon flag is set correctly while on the 10.4 and 10.4.1 systems my friend used it wasn't. I'll try to get this verified and report a formal bug if I can verify this. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Is setting a custom folder icon possible?
by Peter Bierman 18 May '05

18 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com On mardi, mai 17, 2005, at 08:37 PM, Christopher Ryan wrote: Mike, Radar# 3635123 Custom icon folder not saved/set/installed 27-Apr-2004 10:33 AM -pmb _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… At 11:07 PM -0700 5/17/05, Stéphane Sudre wrote: This shouldn't be necessary and is either 1) a missing feature in the installer or 2) a bug. I would consider it a bug. IMHO, this is more a limitation of the pax format. The installer doesn't use the 'pax format'. We use CPIO archives that are gziped. Pax is merely the command line tool that reads these files. The CPIO format doesn't store extended attributes, so we run a tool called 'SplitForks' that moves all extended attributes (resource fork, finder flags, mac type & creator) into a '._' file. The bug 3635123 was duped to 3551477, which was a bug in SplitForks that kept it from running on directories. There was also a bug in PackageMaker that was fixed in 10.4 where PM wasn't calling SplitForks at all on the directories. So the answer here is that if you use the 10.4 version of SplitForks, or PackageMaker, the custom icon bit on your folders should be preserved in the archive, and the installer on 10.4 _and earlier_ should all correctly restore the bit. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: iTunes 4.8 installer bug.
by Peter Bierman 18 May '05

18 May '05

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com -pmb On May 14, 2005, at 5:53 PM, Peter Bierman wrote: At 1:58 AM -0400 5/14/05, Joe Ridge wrote: Why can't the iTunes group make an installer that is not broken? And in both cases, I don't know why $USER wouldn't be defined already. -pmb On May 14, 2005, at 1:58 AM, Joe Ridge wrote: Why can't the iTunes group make an installer that is not broken? This email sent to <mailto:ridge@umiacs.umd.edu>ridge(a)umiacs.umd.edu _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/bierman%40apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… As far as I know, $USER is an exceptionally common environment variable used by all sorts of code throughout the system. As you point out, there is no documented API or environment for these scripts. Apple tests them in the environment created by the Software Update app and the Install framework. If you replace either of those components, the burden of matching the prerequisites moves to you. But all that aside, I'm left wondering why $USER isn't already set correctly in your environment. At 12:04 AM -0400 5/18/05, Joe Ridge wrote: So it's not about what I can and cannot do. It's about adherence to the API. The requirement of $USER, is undocumented, and sure once I hit the bug, I can code in a bug fix to my code, but then another Apple group can make another assumption about the environment that I will have to hit debug and code in. And then it's a whole monolithic mess. Using $USER is like using part of an undocumented API, If I go and change the implementation to one that strictly adheres to the published API, and does not have the undocumented feature, then the problem is with the code that used the undocumented feature not the code that didn't implement it. Now it would be perfectly OK for the group responsible for the installer program to publish a list of environmental variable that were safe to use, and a list of environmental variables that anything that calls installer must provide. Then in my case the people responsible for softwareupdate would then have to ensure that either they ensure those variables are set or publish the environmental requirements and as requirements for softwareupdate. And if that happened, I would happily vouch safe my environment against the published requirements that I was given, by the program I was using. The preinstall and preupgrade scripts both contain a bug that prevents execution from an automated environment. They use "su ${USER} -c ...." to execute a command, but if the installer is being run through cron or as a startup item the ${USER} variable is not defined. and the su doesn't execute the command and instead becomes a shell that will never exit. Since you're creating the crontab or startup item in this case, why can't your code/script make sure that $USER is defined? 'man 5 crontab' suggests that $USER is one of the environment vars set by cron. The preinstall and preupgrade scripts both contain a bug that prevents execution from an automated environment. They use "su ${USER} -c ...." to execute a command, but if the installer is being run through cron or as a startup item the ${USER} variable is not defined. and the su doesn't execute the command and instead becomes a shell that will never exit. The worst part about this is that I reported the same exact bug with the 4.7 installer. Maybe if they aren't going to write good packages we should petition the people who write the installer to populate the environment before they hand off to the packages scripts. But I'm not bitter. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (<mailto:Installer-dev@lists.apple.com>Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: <http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/ridge%40umiacs.umd.edu>http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/ridge%40umiacs.umd.edu This email sent to bierman(a)apple.com This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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