December 2007 - Installer-dev

Re: Distribution package documentation
by Andrew Renz 11 Dec '07

11 Dec '07

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Re: Distribution package documentation
by Stéphane Sudre 11 Dec '07

11 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com On mardi, décembre 11, 2007, at 08:30 PM, Nir Soffer wrote: You're probably looking for this document: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… I remember a release notes about distribution packages which listed the different options and other useful stuff but I can't find it any more. The url was http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/DeveloperTools/ Installer.html. Now it redirect to http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/DeveloperTools/index.html. I also checked packagemaker 3.0 help, and the related docs linked from it. http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Reference/ DistributionDefinitionRef/index.html It's as easy to find as it is to understand a man page. Once you know where it is, it's easy to locate but if you don't... This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Distribution package documentation
by Nir Soffer 11 Dec '07

11 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: "downgrade", "installed", "upgrade" behavior
by Joakim Nyström 10 Dec '07

10 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks for your response! / Joakim 8 dec 2007 kl. 01.16 skrev Bill Coderre: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… I understand why you sometimes want to install the same version of an application once again but should this really be the default behaviour?. I also still think the GUI it is a bit confusing. It is one thing to allow a reinstall of the same version but another thing how to present this to the user. Why is a reinstall displayed as an "upgrade"? This seems strange to me since according to the documentation there are the following states: clean, installed, upgrade, downgrade, and mixed. Moreover, I haven't got any explanation why the javascript variable says "downgrade" in the same situation. The reason I want to make a distinction between "reinstall" and "upgrade" is to avoid unnecessary restarts. I'm using a distribution script with several components. One of my components is a third party package that needs a restart. This is the only component needing this, which means, if this component is already installed there is no need for a restart. I really want to minimize the number of situations where a restart is needed. It seems like I want the Installer application to work slightly different from how it is working today. In other words, I guess it is time for a feature request. This is hard to do, though, without understanding how it currently is supposed to work. My remaining questions are as follows: * How is the javascript variable computed? * Which "values" could be displayed in the GUI? (I've seen "install" and "upgrade") * How is the GUI value computed? (Is it related to the javascript variable?) * Can the behaviour be completely controlled with javascript (or by other method), i.e. can I write code to get exactly the behaviour I want? * Are any of the above different for different OS versions? I'm mainly interested in 10.4 and 10.5. Apple considers it a Good Thing to allow an installer to install "over" itself. (IE. You install FooApp version 1.0, then you should be allowed to run the installer again. Then you install FooApp Updater 1.1, and you can then install the 1.1 updater again. It's no longer OK to install Foo App 1.0.) This often fixes "bit rot" issues. ("Bit Rot" is a catchall phrase that refers to many different ways in which applications get corrupted. Files sometimes disappear or get corrupted, or get their owner/group/permissions screwed up, etc. Emphasis on "etc" -- if you have an app that includes a few tens of thousands of files, there's a LOT of things to check.) Yes, this is sometimes a "waste" of user time. But it, in general, does not cost any disk space, and it might fix a crash. Note that this means you might have to be more clever about upgrade preflight/postflight scripts. For instance, if your FooApp 1.0 has a certain config file, and 1.1 requires a different format of config file, and for some reason it's totally out of the question for FooApp to do the config migration during launch, and you installer is forced to do the migration, you might have to be careful not to replace the migrated file with another copy, etc etc etc. Still, Apple does this for its installers, and I think you can see why, and therefore I'd suggest you do it too. The general answer to "how can I decide if this installation is an upgrade, a re-install, a fresh install, or a downgrade" is, "write your own code." Sorry, but you probably have a better idea how to do this than the Installer, anyway. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: The dmgs of wrath
by Tobias Peciva 09 Dec '07

09 Dec '07

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Re: Create / install to locations in the user folder with PackageMaker
by Nathan Duran 09 Dec '07

09 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Dec 8, 2007, at 4:06 PM, Mike wrote: Except that doing this violates the Apple HIG and doing so on 10.4 requires massive hacking of the dock's plist file. No amount of whining is going to change the fact that the best way to force a user to look at an icon is by shoving it in the Dock. If this were not the case then Apple would cease such practices entirely. They're his users and if he wants to risk annoying them with poor application citizenship, that's entirely his business, and any resultant complaints from those who simply cannot spare the second and a half it takes to undo the unthinkable damage to their nerdly domains are entirely his problem. Fans of Apple HIG would do well to stay clear of PackageMaker in the first place. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Create / install to locations in the user folder with PackageMaker
by Mike 09 Dec '07

09 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Macintosh/20071031) On Dec 7, 2007, at 3:32 AM, devmaillists wrote: This email sent to lists(a)michael-amorose.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Except that doing this violates the Apple HIG and doing so on 10.4 requires massive hacking of the dock's plist file. Nathan Duran wrote: How can I create an Alias with PackageMaker 3 of an application just installed at the current user ´s desktop folder? This is what we need to do. I know it is windows like. If it is a "don´t do that", I would be happy to get a comment from Apple. If you want to force users to look at your icon you'd have better luck shoving it in the dock than on the desktop. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/lists%40michael-amoros… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: "downgrade", "installed", "upgrade" behavior
by Bill Coderre 08 Dec '07

08 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Apple considers it a Good Thing to allow an installer to install "over" itself. (IE. You install FooApp version 1.0, then you should be allowed to run the installer again. Then you install FooApp Updater 1.1, and you can then install the 1.1 updater again. It's no longer OK to install Foo App 1.0.) This often fixes "bit rot" issues. ("Bit Rot" is a catchall phrase that refers to many different ways in which applications get corrupted. Files sometimes disappear or get corrupted, or get their owner/group/permissions screwed up, etc. Emphasis on "etc" -- if you have an app that includes a few tens of thousands of files, there's a LOT of things to check.) Yes, this is sometimes a "waste" of user time. But it, in general, does not cost any disk space, and it might fix a crash. Note that this means you might have to be more clever about upgrade preflight/postflight scripts. For instance, if your FooApp 1.0 has a certain config file, and 1.1 requires a different format of config file, and for some reason it's totally out of the question for FooApp to do the config migration during launch, and you installer is forced to do the migration, you might have to be careful not to replace the migrated file with another copy, etc etc etc. Still, Apple does this for its installers, and I think you can see why, and therefore I'd suggest you do it too. The general answer to "how can I decide if this installation is an upgrade, a re-install, a fresh install, or a downgrade" is, "write your own code." Sorry, but you probably have a better idea how to do this than the Installer, anyway. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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The dmgs of wrath
by Stéphane Sudre 07 Dec '07

07 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Here's why: * Disk Utility is not able to detect problems in Disk Images: This particular case is somehow slowly getting upsetting. * Disk Image and the Finder are probably not made by the same company: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Disk Images are really nice to use, no discussion about this, they are great to distribute applications or documents but sometimes creating, updating or maintaining a disk image looks like "playing a game" in Saw V. You're suffering and you know you will fail anyway. * Easy ways to create disk images appeared, disappeared and then re-appeared: In some OS version, you can just drag and drop a file or folder on Disk Copy (R.I.P) or Disk Utility and it will create a disk image. With some OS releases, you could not. - You can have a disk image mount fine on Mac OS X 10.3. But it won't mount fine (warning displayed or the very user centric error message about the lack of a mountable something) on 10.4. You have to fix it in 10.4 in most cases. - You can have a disk image mount fine on Mac OS X 10.4. But not on 10.5. You have to fix it in 10.5 in most cases. - My favorite: You can have a disk image mount fine on 10.4. It can mount fine on 10.5 if you download it using Safari and Safari is configured to automatically mount the disk image. But if you later double-click the disk image to mount it on 10.5, then it won't mount fine. It's a nightmare in many situations to make a nice presentation inside a disk image: - You need to take into consideration that the Status bar may not be visible when you make the background picture of a disk image. - You need to take into consideration that on some OS versions, scrollbars may not be displayed. - You need to take into account that when you change the name of the mounted disk image on some OS versions, you may have to rebuild the link to the background picture of the disk image. BTW, I think the nobel prize should not be attributed to Al Gore this year, but to the engineer who made it possible that in Leopard, when you use /Developer/Tools/SetFile -a V, the change is taken into account on the fly, without having to unmount and mount again the disk image. This would make everyone forget that with a release of the DevTools on 10.3, SetFile -a V or v was not working. - You need to not break down when you select a background picture for a disk image, because on some OS versions, after selecting the background picture in the View inspector, you have to select again the Background radio button - You need to remember that one some OS versions, if you change the background image, it will not be seen on previous OS versions and that you need to fix this in the previous OS versions. - With most major OS releases, the grid space between Icons is being modified. It sure helps. - In some occasions, you have the strange feeling of being in a Tom & Jerry cartoon when you try to align icons. Moving an icon to a position will make the other icons go away. The first time, it's funny, later on, it becomes very very annoying. Last time I saw this one it was on Mac OS X 10.4.10. I haven't dared working on disk images in Leopard yet, so maybe at last, this does not happen anymore. - And the current issue that makes me write this post: the Finder in Leopard has absolutely no respect for your work. You can spend a lot of time to precisely align icons, select the icon size, the font size. The Finder just does not care. It will display your sub-folders in List View mode if that's the last view mode used in a Finder window. It will use the correct view mode for the root window of a disk image, but the sub-folder presentations are considered peanuts by the Finder. One of these days, while working on a disk image, I will end up clicking willingly on a link in one of these stupid spams I'm receiving to buy Xanax, Vicodin, whatever. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Create / install to locations in the user folder with PackageMaker
by Stéphane Sudre 07 Dec '07

07 Dec '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com On vendredi, décembre 7, 2007, at 06:11 PM, Michael Watson wrote: I agree. So, yes, YMMV. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Please don't recommend putting icons in the user's Dock. This discussion comes up on mailing lists frequently and always ends with the same few points: - There's no public API for it, which means you have to edit the Dock plist, which is an implementation detail Frankly, it's really not difficult to edit the plist with code or scripts. - It's arrogant of the developer Hmm, tell this to the company selling iLife. Pomme encre or something like this. - It forces many users to remove the new icon they didn't put there What's in my Dock is my domain. Don't touch it. Never heard of System Admin? Even your soul belongs to the System Admin (you should really have paid attention to this paragraph in small characters at the bottom of your contract). While I agree that with home users, it is not a good idea to add items to the Dock (I should probably go and confess myself one of these days for accepting to do it in 2 programs), there are cases where you need to do it. For instance, when I prepare demo machines for shows such as Macworld or Apple Expo, I usually end up installing the applications and then adding the applications to the Dock and an alias of the applications on the Desktop. If I had some spare time, I would probably create a custom version of the installer to do this for me. I assume that somebody that wants to create a package for the CS3 suite may want to be able to add the suite applications in the Dock during the installation so that every student or artist can have access to the same default configuration. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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